Demographic time bomb

[Thinker]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...hic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html

Britain and the rest of the European Union are ignoring a demographic time bomb: a recent rush into the EU by migrants, including millions of Muslims, will change the continent beyond recognition over the next two decades, and almost no policy-makers are talking about it.

Jerome Vignon, the director for employment and social affairs at the European Commission, said that the focus of those running the EU had been on asylum seekers and the control of migration rather than the integration of those already in the bloc. "It has certainly been underestimated - there is a general rhetoric that social integration of migrants should be given as much importance as monitoring the inflow of migrants." But, he said, the rhetoric had rarely led to policy.

Since the idea of a ‘multicultural society’ was debunked it was only a matter of time before the question of integration came up and it is (IMHO) a question that will pick up speed like a snow ball rolling down a hill. I wonder how long it will be before the debate will start within and without Islam in Europe on the question of how much, if any, Islam allows any form of integration.

 

[Uthman]

I made reference to this article in this post.

 

[Thinker]

I made reference to this article in this post.

Sorry, I did a search using Europe and demographic and it came up blank.

 

[Uthman]

Sorry, I did a search using Europe and demographic and it came up blank.

No worries - I was just sayin that's all.

Islam does allow integration insofar as Islamic principles are not violated and, in my opinion, that doesn't allow for much integration at all since orthodox Islamic values are clearly at odds with those of mainstream European culture. Orthodox Muslims need to establish a proper Islamic state in the Muslim world and move there - life would be much more easier for everybody.

That's my honest assessment - others may disagree.

 

[Amadeus85]

No worries - I was just sayin that's all.

Islam does allow integration insofar as Islamic principles are not violated and, in my opinion, that doesn't allow for much integration at all since orthodox Islamic values are clearly at odds with those of mainstream European culture. Orthodox Muslims need to establish a proper Islamic state in the Muslim world and move there - life would be much more easier for everybody.

That's my honest assessment - others may disagree.

For example to Burrmingham.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Islam does allow integration insofar as Islamic principles are not violated and, in my opinion, that doesn't allow for much integration at all since orthodox Islamic values are clearly at odds with those of mainstream European culture. Orthodox Muslims need to establish a proper Islamic state in the Muslim world and move there - life would be much more easier for everybody.

That's my honest assessment - others may disagree.

Couldn't agree more.

Peace

 

[alcurad]

that's overly naive though, people stay anywhere they want as land does no belong to any certain religion or even people, rather to individuals, otherwise the Europeans should leave Europe and leave it to the pagans.

 

[czgibson]

Geetings,

that's overly naive though, people stay anywhere they want as land does no belong to any certain religion or even people, rather to individuals, otherwise the Europeans should leave Europe and leave it to the pagans.

Correct, people should be able to live where they want - as long as they're prepared to respect the laws of the land. If the laws of the land contradict the rules of their religion, then they have to decide which is more important to them.

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

Geetings,


Correct, people should be able to live where they want - as long as they're prepared to respect the laws of the land. If the laws of the land contradict the rules of their religion, then they have to decide which is more important to them.

Peace

Unless the laws of the land change according to desires of the shifting cultures and peoples within it.

Which, it seems, is the fulcrum upon which this debate rests.

 

[Intisar]

No worries - I was just sayin that's all.

Islam does allow integration insofar as Islamic principles are not violated and, in my opinion, that doesn't allow for much integration at all since orthodox Islamic values are clearly at odds with those of mainstream European culture. Orthodox Muslims need to establish a proper Islamic state in the Muslim world and move there - life would be much more easier for everybody.

That's my honest assessment - others may disagree.

I agree.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Unless the laws of the land change according to desires of the shifting cultures and peoples within it.

Which, it seems, is the fulcrum upon which this debate rests.

What sort of changes are you thinking of?

I think you're probably making a good point here, but being rather dense I can't quite see it yet. Could you spell it out for me?

Peace

 

[جوري]

Unless the laws of the land change according to desires of the shifting cultures and peoples within it.

Which, it seems, is the fulcrum upon which this debate rests.

Very true.. that is what 'democracy' is by definition.. the supreme power lies in a body of citizens.. I am very impressed that another prophecy is coming true and I might in fact enjoy it in my life time if Allah swt wills..

 

[aadil77]

I dont think there will ever be a proper islamic state till near the end of time, but nice to hear islam spreading, the imam at our mosque has encouraged families to have as many children as possible to spread islam and strengthen the ummah

If every family has it arab style 10, 20 children then who knows how fast islam will spread. In france you get morrocans and algerians with huge families doing ok in small houses

 

[Uthman]

I read an interesting article which has caused me to re-evaluate my views on the issue. I posted it here.

 

[جوري]

I think we need better quality Muslims, not just a quantity issue.. given how many nut cases out there, they count against Islam.. we need to cultivate and foster proper Islam in these new generations insha'Allah...

Anyhoiw, I can't source this right now, but the best army that will rise for Islam will be from the west and Allah swt knows best..

also there is no reason that proper Islamic state shouldn't be established now, firstly we really shouldn't wait for Jesus or the mahdi, we should work on it now a days. and secondly the very end of the world will rise upon really evil people, all religion will be lift off the world and the basest of people will be left that the day of recompense will rise upon people copulating like donkeys on the street (not that, that doesn't happen now) but I imagine it won't be a taboo rather a social norm!

my two cents

 

[Muezzin]

Greetings,

What sort of changes are you thinking of?

I think you're probably making a good point here, but being rather dense I can't quite see it yet. Could you spell it out for me?

Peace

Sharia law, or rather the fear of its imposition.

My own density prevents me commenting on others' perceived shortcomings.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Sharia law, or rather the fear of its imposition.

Oh. That wasn't what I was expecting. Osman was talking about Muslims living in countries where the culture is contradictory to Islam. Sharia law obviously wouldn't raise any objections from Muslims...

From the other side of the coin, I'm not among those who are afraid that sharia law is about to arrive in Europe - I just can't see it happening.

My own density prevents me commenting on others' perceived shortcomings.

;D

I can't wait till you publish your first book.

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

Greetings,


Oh. That wasn't what I was expecting. Osman was talking about Muslims living in countries where the culture is contradictory to Islam. Sharia law obviously wouldn't raise any objections from Muslims...

Well, you mentioned the law of the land which made me think of legal objections etc.

In terms of culture, it seems to be a similar fear - that current British culture will be diluted and degraded (or else simply changed) by the influx of immigrants.

From the other side of the coin, I'm not among those who are afraid that sharia law is about to arrive in Europe - I just can't see it happening.

Neither can I to be honest. People are still afraid of it.

;D

I can't wait till you publish your first book.

Peace

I'll consider that a pre-order

 

[Thinker]

I dont think there will ever be a proper islamic state till near the end of time, but nice to hear islam spreading, the imam at our mosque has encouraged families to have as many children as possible to spread islam and strengthen the ummah

If every family has it arab style 10, 20 children then who knows how fast islam will spread. In france you get morrocans and algerians with huge families doing ok in small houses

That’s they way, pump out a dozen kids, bring them up on state benefits, send them to school around the corner where the teachers spend most of their day teaching English as a second language, make sure they spend plenty of time in the mosque meeting up with their brothers to confirm how badly they are treated and how unreasonable it is that the non-muslims have all the wealth and they have none!!

Amazing – you or your parents left a (muslim country) with a culture that brought poverty and insecurity and you came, looking for a better life, to a non-Muslim country, with a culture that had produced prosperity, security and stability and all you want to do is change the country to the same as the one you left!! Please explain that to me?

 

[Thinker]

Some of you don’t want to integrate, you want to change the British culture to something similar to what you or your parents had in Pakistan. We can identify aspects of the British culture such as the binge drinking and loose morals which are not what we all might want but all in all those people and that culture developed a way of life that has attracted thousand of Muslim migrants. They came and still go to the UK, not because it better for the Imam or deen but because it is better for their individual prosperity, comfort, security and opportunity; in short they come for better access to worldly benefits. What I struggle to understand is the Muslims that want to change the country into the same thing that they left – what happens then do you move on to the next country and ruin that one? Look around you, most of you are living in squalid ghettos, yes it’s better than what you had in Pakistan but surely you left there for something better. I am starting to wonder if you know what you want.

Is there is any aspect of the quality of life you enjoy in the UK that would be improved by changing the culture to that of your forebears?