Deploy troops in Iran...!

[Trumble]

News just in....

''Following Britain's claims Iran's embassy in London issued a statement in which it said the sailors and marines had been 0.5 km inside Iranian waters at the time they were detained''

NOW, are you going to say ''so what if they were''? You can't have it both ways darlings. Admit you're wrong when you are!!!

I'm going to say the Iranians are liars. Not only that, they are bad liars - they couldn't even get it right first time! The first position they gave in response to the British was STILL in Iraqi waters!

BBC

The obvious aside, I find the 0.5 km claim quite encouraging. Such a distance even if it were true (and we know it isn't as the photographs make clear) clearly shows that any claims of 'spying' and such are complete garbage. It just sets up the Iranians with a way out by claiming it was all a mistake.

 

[Cognescenti]

Five years on and it's still not happening. Leave and watch it all fall into place. (yes yes I know) ''It'll only get worse if we leave'' complete and utter tosh. They don't want you there. People are killed daily because we are there. The blood of innocents are on your hands. Have some heart and and admit your mistake. I'd love to see the same happen to the US/UK just so you lot can begin to fathom what it is like to be occupied by foreigners. Lord knows I know being a Panjabi and having my country occupied by Hindus!! :raging: :raging:

Oh it will "fall into place" all right. There will be a sectarian civil war and the Sunnis in mixed areas will be "cleansed" or killed. Many Shia will be killed as well. The Iranians will arm the Shia and the neighboring Sunni states will arm the Sunnis. Many 10's of thousands of civilians will be killed, perhaps hundreds of thousands. There will be millions of refugees. Sunni/Shia tensions will be inflamed everywhere. There may even be direct confrontation between the Iranians and Saudis (but I doubt it as the Saudis are such effete wimps). The Kurds will drive out the Arabs out of their historic areas and may even cross swords with the Turks.

Al Quaeda will continue to foment trouble, and, of course, will claim victory and be emboldened.

It will be a garden spot with the lovely scent of oranges and roses.

 

[Trumble]

If it was accepted by Iran that the ship was not in Iranian waters, that would immediatly mean they recognise that as Iraqi waters and they could loose quite a bit of off shore drilling rights.

So all they have to do is acknowledge is that the kidnapping occurred where the evidence now clearly shows it did, in what even they acknowledge are Iraqi waters (else why give out the second claimed position?), and they concede nothing other than deserved egg on their face.

 

[doodlebug]

Totally ot but I work with a guy from Iran and he doesn't know a lick of arabic. How is that? He's Muslim but doesn't know his prayers in arabic?

on another side note my husband, who lives in Egypt, said that it has been predicted that the end of the world will be started with Iran and that the anti-christ (or whatever we call him) will be from Iran.

 

[Keltoi]

Totally ot but I work with a guy from Iran and he doesn't know a lick of arabic. How is that? He's Muslim but doesn't know his prayers in arabic?

on another side note my husband, who lives in Egypt, said that it has been predicted that the end of the world will be started with Iran and that the anti-christ (or whatever we call him) will be from Iran.

I think that is the dangerous element about this whole standoff. Ahmadenijad himself believes in the whole "endtimes" prophecies. While the politicians in the U.S. and U.K. aren't thinking in those terms, Christians do believe that an endtime scenario is inevitable. It is dangerous when you throw religious prophecies in with international politics.

 

[MTAFFI]

Personally I have no respect for Iran, I think this is just a way for them to vent their frustrations regarding their nuclear ambitions. I dont know, and no one at this point knows (until the official information is released) where these soldiers were in the water, however it is known about where they were and it is obvious that there were no ill intentions directed at Iran. It is an action taken by Iran to intentionally frustrate the west, I wouldnt be suprised to see them make mock executions again, imagine if the US put the Iranians that are being held on TV and staged mock executions, the world outcry would be deafening. I just hope these men and women return home safely as they should, if they dont then I cant wait to see the destruction of the Iranian regime.

 

[Keltoi]

Personally I have no respect for Iran, I think this is just a way for them to vent their frustrations regarding their nuclear ambitions. I dont know, and no one at this point knows (until the official information is released) where these soldiers were in the water, however it is known about where they were and it is obvious that there were no ill intentions directed at Iran. It is an action taken by Iran to intentionally frustrate the west, I wouldnt be suprised to see them make mock executions again, imagine if the US put the Iranians that are being held on TV and staged mock executions, the world outcry would be deafening. I just hope these men and women return home safely as they should, if they dont then I cant wait to see the destruction of the Iranian regime.

Remember the last time Iran took British hostages? They blindfolded them and made them dig trenches, then the Iranians fired their rifles while they were blind to make them believe their comrades were being executed. I would be surpised if they went to that extreme in this case, but one never knows with Iran.

 

[MTAFFI]

Remember the last time Iran took British hostages? They blindfolded them and made them dig trenches, then the Iranians fired their rifles while they were blind to make them believe their comrades were being executed. I would be surpised if they went to that extreme in this case, but one never knows with Iran.

Oh I remember it alright, pretty vividly actually, I have never liked Iran since. You last sentence is what is so scary, "It would be suprising if they went to that extreme, but one never knows with Iran". We should have went to war with them before Iraq:raging:

 

[Woodrow]

Totally ot but I work with a guy from Iran and he doesn't know a lick of arabic. How is that? He's Muslim but doesn't know his prayers in arabic?

on another side note my husband, who lives in Egypt, said that it has been predicted that the end of the world will be started with Iran and that the anti-christ (or whatever we call him) will be from Iran.

Iranians are not Arabic and their Language is Farsi. Keep in mind not all Muslims take the effort to learn Arabic. True, we should make our best efforts at doing so, but some non-Arabic Speaking Muslims never grasp the need for Learning Arabic.

 

[noodles]

You know I admit, the war between sunni and shias was bound to happen sooner or later. However, the only purpose US and UK have served was as catalsyts in the midst of it all.

Flame me all you want, but examine the situation and look for yourselves.

As far as Iraq goes for democracy, I agree that establishing a democracy might be a good idea, however, the longer the US troops stay in Iraq the longer the suicide bombings will continue.

 

[snakelegs]

I think that is the dangerous element about this whole standoff. Ahmadenijad himself believes in the whole "endtimes" prophecies. While the politicians in the U.S. and U.K. aren't thinking in those terms, Christians do believe that an endtime scenario is inevitable. It is dangerous when you throw religious prophecies in with international politics.

this is the aspect i find the most frightening. i am not so sure that u.s. policy is free from the influence ot the very same religious prophecies that ahmadenijad subscribes to.

 

[Cognescenti]

You know I admit, the war between sunni and shias was bound to happen sooner or later. However, the only purpose US and UK have served was as catalsyts in the midst of it all.

Flame me all you want, but examine the situation and look for yourselves.

As far as Iraq goes for democracy, I agree that establishing a democracy might be a good idea, however, the longer the US troops stay in Iraq the longer the suicide bombings will continue.

I partly agree with you. The brutal Hussein regime kept a lid on a somewhat unnatural political entity...a predominantly Shia population laregely ruled by Sunnis. He found he best way to keep the Iraqi Shia in line was to kill a few hundred or a few thousand every now and then, throw a few off of roofs, flood or bulldoze their villages...yada yada yada.

The US and UK (largely) tossed the murdering tyrant out of power and there is no Shia George Washington to unite the disparate elements and assorted tinpots.

Al Quaeda (in the form of Zarkawi) manipulated the Shia like a bunch of sheep when he blew up the Samarra Mosque, so there is plenty of blame to go around and it can't all be lain at the foot of Blair or Bush. In fact, it amazes me how many foreign jihadis are willing to blow themselves up to kill Shia children and women. Clearly, there is some serious hatred between the Shia and Sunni. It seems likely there will be many more deaths before there is some kind of reconcilliation (if ever). It is hard for me to imagine this is what OBl and Zawahiri had in mind. Not to be too cyinical, but a couple of decades of sectarian warfare between the Sunni and Shia might allow us in the West to go back to more important matters.

 

[samah12]

Not to be too cyinical, but a couple of decades of sectarian warfare between the Sunni and Shia might allow us in the West to go back to more important matters.

Please, please, please take this comment back. I agree there is plenty of blame to go around, no side (political, religious, etc) is innocent in all this mess but please don't wish violence on people.

 

[SATalha]

Important matters ummm yes....I dont think the west has a clue?

 

[MTAFFI]

Important matters ummm yes....I dont think the west has a clue?

The west does have a lot of other very important matters to deal with rather than these idiots in Iraq, not to mention a lot better things to do with our money, I paid out over 100k back to the government this year in taxes, where do you think that went? I used to be all for staying there as long as it takes to get the country back in order, help the poor people of Iraq live in freedom rather than oppression, but with the democrats in congress and the mindset of the people in this region about the US, I have to say, let them just blow themselves up and let us concentrate on our own issues. US didnt go to Iraq to cause chaos, we went there with one goal, to remove a ruthless dictator, ok Job well done. Now we have these terrorist organizations who want to make the US look bad and they attack and kill hundreds of thousands, whats worse is some of the people in Iraq are so uneducated they cant even recognize what hand is really trying to feed them, so they in turn join the terrorist organization, and fight against the US and each other. The US cant fix the problem, we need to just leave, never go back and in my opinion never provide aid or any other help to them (at least until a stable democratic government is set up) or anyone who supports the people fighting in the country and causing all of the instability. Let the world see who the real terrorists are, when the fighting continues even though there is no US presence, let the world beg for the US's money and military aid just as they always do.

 

[SATalha]

Did you see the latest pictures of the 15 sailers on Irani t.v, I dont know it was pictures of them eating....and by the look of it, it seemed that they where deprived of food. Did anyone else think the same?

 

[Cognescenti]

Please, please, please take this comment back. I agree there is plenty of blame to go around, no side (political, religious, etc) is innocent in all this mess but please don't wish violence on people.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I absolutely do not wish for this to happen. My hope is that a firm leader will emerge from among the Iraqi Shia who will make peace with the Sunni and forgive the former Baathists and offer to share power and oil revenue. Among the Sunni what is needed is a courageous leader who manages to live long enough to convince the Sunni that a pluralistic state is the way to go. The third leg of the magic scenario is for Al Quaeda to give up and let the Iraqis be. Were this to happen the US would be out of there before the sun set.

Of course, this is not likely given the characters.

Al Sadr??? Peacemaker...not likely
Al Quaeda?? Give up...not likely
Sunni Abe Lincoln??....not bloody likely either

It is looking pretty dismal. If the US pulls back, I fear there will be a civil war.....and it is going to be ugly. At that point, the American people will not support any more US blood to solve the problem. That means the Muslim World is going to have to solve that one. Good luck. Hope you chaps have fun keeping Iran in check.

Those advocating for the defeat of the US or for a hasty US withdrawal had better consider the consequences.

 

[SATalha]

The west does have a lot of other very important matters to deal with rather than these idiots in Iraq, not to mention a lot better things to do with our money, I paid out over 100k back to the government this year in taxes, where do you think that went? I used to be all for staying there as long as it takes to get the country back in order, help the poor people of Iraq live in freedom rather than oppression, but with the democrats in congress and the mindset of the people in this region about the US, I have to say, let them just blow themselves up and let us concentrate on our own issues. US didnt go to Iraq to cause chaos, we went there with one goal, to remove a ruthless dictator, ok Job well done. Now we have these terrorist organizations who want to make the US look bad and they attack and kill hundreds of thousands, whats worse is some of the people in Iraq are so uneducated they cant even recognize what hand is really trying to feed them, so they in turn join the terrorist organization, and fight against the US and each other. The US cant fix the problem, we need to just leave, never go back and in my opinion never provide aid or any other help to them (at least until a stable democratic government is set up) or anyone who supports the people fighting in the country and causing all of the instability. Let the world see who the real terrorists are, when the fighting continues even though there is no US presence, let the world beg for the US's money and military aid just as they always do.

See thats the kind of imperialist attitude that gets to me. Like you guys have all the answers. As Edward Said puts we are the orient and you are the supirior man that need to fix our problems.

 

[doodlebug]

Iranians are not Arabic and their Language is Farsi. Keep in mind not all Muslims take the effort to learn Arabic. True, we should make our best efforts at doing so, but some non-Arabic Speaking Muslims never grasp the need for Learning Arabic.

Well that is just not fair though. I only speak English and to the best of my knowledge I was never ever given the option of not learning my prayers in Arabic, yet they are allowed to say theirs in Farsi? They are the only country I know of where this is allowed.

 

[MTAFFI]

See thats the kind of imperialist attitude that gets to me. Like you guys have all the answers. As Edward Said puts we are the orient and you are the supirior man that need to fix our problems.

Let me ask you Satalha do you think the US needs to fix anything in Iraq? Do you think the lives of the american people would be affected negatively if we closed shop and left these people to massacre each other? No in fact it would be the opposite.. I am not saying we have the answers, I am saying the US is the only real hope for Iraq, I dont see any other countries doing anything to help and should the US leave, I dont see anyone stepping up to the monstrous task. If you do, please do tell.

Also just so you know I wouldnt really think we were superior or the problem fixer if everytime something bad happened in the world the US wasnt the first country looked to, and then the first blamed for anything wrong.