Deploy troops in Iran...!

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OMG!

''Saudi: US Iraq presence illegal'' HOW DARE THEY!! I HAVE AN IDEA, YES BOMB THEM TOO.....

The Saudi monarch has made a forceful appeal for Arab unity, denouncing US policy in Iraq and the embargo imposed by western nations on the Palestinians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6505803.stm

Abut time they showed backbone!!

Hee Hee Avar will it be quicker if you just tell us who you don't think should be bombed :D
 
I abore killing of innocents, yet it's you lot doing the killing too. Look what happened in Rwanda, Bosnia, and currently in Sudan. These are atrocities which we could have stopped. (SUDAN) but we don't.

Do you think i'm full of joy everytime i hear of an iraqi or a soldier killed? No. But you've made a grave mistake goinginto another country. And the world is not pleased. Look around even FRANCE said NO to the invasion.

Oh Deary me.

Rawanda: 3 Million died because Muslim Extremists killed the UN protectors and the UN pulled out. We diddnt tell the hutu and tusi to kill each other. We diddnt carpet bomb their villages. We tried to stop it, but because America has always been frightened of offending world opinion, opinion that it is colonial, it stayed out. Thats as far apart from " our troops killing" in Rawanda as possible. We had a go at saving that country, but the tribal hatred was too strong. We vowed that we wouldnt make the same mistake again....

Which leads to Bosnia. A Serbian crackpot genocidal facist starts slaughtering MUSLIM kosavans. We move in to defend them, bomb the Christians till they stop and pull out. We killed Christians to protect MUSLIMS.
Fit that into your thought processes.

In Sudan, we dont have any soldiers. What we do have is ...and forgive me if this sounds repetative....Muslim Terrorists slaughtering civilians.

So. Your point is what? All you have done is provide three very good examples of Western troops shedding blood to protect Muslims and civilians ...from...umm...islamic extremists.

Sheesh!


As to your last point. France is upset...what even France you say? Wow...we might have upset the Chinese as well! Or , heaven forbid the Russians...Who would have thought that the Embargo-breaking, saddam supporting, self serving French would turn against the USA? I mean theres no hatred of America in France is there! LOL! (For Your Infomation, the French have ALWAYS had a anti-american standpoint. In WW2 the american general Patton said , "I'd rather have a German Division in front of me than a French one behind me". We upset the French...LOL LOL. Now they cant flog their arms to Saddam.

The countries that are "upset" are the Arab and muslim dictatorships who know that their days are numbered if people in Iraq are freed. The Russians, French and Chinese do what they have always done; oppose America.

Now onto the Meat of your Response.

Ignoring the silly claims of 3 million dead in Iraq, have a look at this anti-west, anti-war website. It started counting how many people died in Iraq and how they were killed.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

There have been studies based on this which show that since 2003 -425 innocent Iraqis wereaccidentally killed by American mistargeting,

In one year, 2006 16,791 Innocent iraqi's Died from Muslim's Fighting Muslim. That same year showed 72 deaths from stray american bullets, a proportion of these were civilians killed whilst being held as meat-sheilds by Muslim terrorists.

Its utter Nonsense to say "your people kill too". Its YOUR people who are machinegunning Kids and beheading women. The guys with the helmets and in the Humvees are desperatly trying (and dying) to save them. 3000 killed in 4 years.

You say you deplore it when Civilians die. So now...Condem the killers...condem the death squads...condem the suicide bombers...

Put your cards on the table. Condem them.
 
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Oh Deary me.

Rawanda: 3 Million died because Muslim Extremists killed the UN protectors and the UN pulled out. We diddnt tell the hutu and tusi to kill each other. We diddnt carpet bomb their villages. We tried to stop it, but because America has always been frightened of offending world opinion, opinion that it is colonial, it stayed out. Thats as far apart from " our troops killing" in Rawanda as possible. We had a go at saving that country, but the tribal hatred was too strong. We vowed that we wouldnt make the same mistake again....

Which leads to Bosnia. A Serbian crackpot genocidal facist starts slaughtering MUSLIM kosavans. We move in to defend them, bomb the Christians till they stop and pull out. We killed Christians to protect MUSLIMS.
Fit that into your thought processes.

In Sudan, we dont have any soldiers. What we do have is ...and forgive me if this sounds repetative....Muslim Terrorists slaughtering civilians.

So. Your point is what? All you have done is provide three very good examples of Western troops shedding blood to protect Muslims and civilians ...from...umm...islamic extremists.

Sheesh!


As to your last point. France is upset...what even France you say? Wow...we might have upset the Chinese as well! Or , heaven forbid the Russians...Who would have thought that the Embargo-breaking, saddam supporting, self serving French would turn against the USA? I mean theres no hatred of America in France is there! LOL! (For Your Infomation, the French have ALWAYS had a anti-american standpoint. In WW2 the american general Patton said , "I'd rather have a German Division in front of me than a French one behind me". We upset the French...LOL LOL. Now they cant flog their arms to Saddam.

The countries that are "upset" are the Arab and muslim dictatorships who know that their days are numbered if people in Iraq are freed. The Russians, French and Chinese do what they have always done; oppose America.

Now onto the Meat of your Response.

Ignoring the silly claims of 3 million dead in Iraq, have a look at this anti-west, anti-war website. It started counting how many people died in Iraq and how they were killed.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

There have been studies based on this which show that since 2003 -425 innocent Iraqis wereaccidentally killed by American mistargeting,

In one year, 2006 16,791 Innocent iraqi's Died from Muslim's Fighting Muslim. That same year showed 72 deaths from stray american bullets, a proportion of these were civilians killed whilst being held as meat-sheilds by Muslim terrorists.

Its utter Nonsense to say "your people kill too". Its YOUR people who are machinegunning Kids and beheading women. The guys with the helmets and in the Humvees are desperatly trying (and dying) to save them. 3000 killed in 4 years.

You say you deplore it when Civilians die. So now...Condem the killers...condem the death squads...condem the suicide bombers...

Put your cards on the table. Condem them.

I am not praising them. It's your stupid leader going on the rampage. That is my objection. He's a war monger. And yes the past adminstrations have done good. I think your thought i was saying all the above were caused by the US. No you're mistaken.
 
Well anything is better than HIM! - You're a republican i assume?

FLAMING REPUBLICAN...LOL j/k

but yes I am a republican, but if a good enough democrat comes along I may vote for him (more than likely he would need to be a southern democrat), the problem is the common democrats today in the US is they are just too liberal (support abortion, immigration, no backbone, support gays, basically no morals) I would like a president to be conservative, bring back some of the good old american values, but not ultra conservative (like Bush with the stem cell research). Probably not going to be a candidate like that though so we will see who is worth anything when all the candidates are visible and have made their objectives clear
 
FLAMING REPUBLICAN...LOL j/k

but yes I am a republican, but if a good enough democrat comes along I may vote for him (more than likely he would need to be a southern democrat), the problem is the common democrats today in the US is they are just too liberal (support abortion, immigration, no backbone, support gays, basically no morals) I would like a president to be conservative, bring back some of the good old american values, but not ultra conservative (like Bush with the stem cell research). Probably not going to be a candidate like that though so we will see who is worth anything when all the candidates are visible and have made their objectives clear

Isn't that the problem in US though, your candidates have to raise so much money they daren't offend the people with no morals or the money dries up?
 
Bush is Not my leader. I'm English.

I happen to think Bush is a Idiot. Would I have ordered the Iraq liberation? Nope. I would have let the Iraqi people do it.They would have got round to it after another 60 or 70 years, after millions of them had been ploughed under the sand.
America armed Saddam? Well a previous Administration apparently sold him some chemicals. He was armed by the French (Mirage jets /crotale SAM), and the Russians , AKM, T64/T74/Mig21 Mig 23 Mig25.

As for going on the rampage. We killed about 8000 soldiers and Fedayeen in Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Idea was that then, We set up some elections so the people can be free;and pull the heck out.

It's a little difficult to do that if your bombing 70 innocents every day.
Try this. Stop the terrorism, we get out of Iraq. Jobs a good un.

I Notice you say your not "praising them" and "You dont like it when a civilian dies"...but you diddnt say " Get the killers out of Iraq". Go on ...It';s not too hard. Say that you want the "Insurgants" (sic) to stop killing kids.That they should put down their guns and talk peace. (or are you more a man-o-war?)
 
Isn't that the problem in US though, your candidates have to raise so much money they daren't offend the people with no morals or the money dries up?

I dont really think so, remember in Bushs first term as president congress was full of very conservative republicans, it was actually alright, until the whole war thing came up
 
I left Iraq in 2003, Left the army in December. Basra was full of hope in those days.
Now, thanks to the sectarians and Palastinian/Syrian/Iranian Jihadists...not so much.
 
Isn't that the problem in US though, your candidates have to raise so much money they daren't offend the people with no morals or the money dries up?

It isn't the candidate that searches for the money people, it is the political party selects to nominate who the believe will best represent their views. In the coming year you will see the political system fall into place. The Major parties will hold their caucuses and decide on the candidate they will nominate to represent their party. the main goal is they want to select somebody they believe will carry the vote come November Elections.

I only personally knew one "almost" presidential candidate. i still think he would have made a good president. He had a lot of Charisma was very intelligent and had experience as the Governor of Louisiana and as a congressman. He did not have the personal money, but he had drawing power. He was a a favored nominee to be a candidate for the Democrats, however there was a family scandal that involved his father and the Dems withdrew their support so he never made it to the caucus. He withdrew drew from politics after that.

He was quite interesting. It would have been an interesting election as his choice for a running mate to be VP was a Black Man from South Louisiana.
 
I dont really think so, remember in Bushs first term as president congress was full of very conservative republicans, it was actually alright, until the whole war thing came up

I'll take your word for it, afraid I try to avoid american politics so am no expert.

What is an expert? X is an unknown quantity and a spert is a drip under pressure :D
 
 
I left Iraq in 2003, Left the army in December. Basra was full of hope in those days.
Now, thanks to the sectarians and Palastinian/Syrian/Iranian Jihadists...not so much.

OOOh Barney, someone that has actually been on the ground there recently. Please can you give me the ideiots guide to whats happening over there. Maybe you could send me an email thingy about it. I would love to hear your perspective.
 
I've let this thread go on for 30 pages withot stepping in. I finally feel an urge to do so :D

in response to #1
Is Iran not invading as well by sending this "resistance"? and how is it a resistance to occupation of ones country when the resistance is not even from the country being occupied?

That's a good point. And it should be looked at from both sides. Americans are constantly criticizing Iran for possibly trying to influence things in Iraq. But the US itself has invaded and is occupying Iraq! Iran is Iraq's neighbour. The US is half way around the world. Talk about hipocracy.

in response to #2
they simply will not have nukes, one way or the other they can either stop the attempt or someone will eventually step in and stop it for them

They will likely have nukes, and that has come out of the US and UK lately, including the actions regarding Iraq and North Korea has only given them more and more perfectly legitimate reasons to want and build nukes. Can you say you wouldn't want nukes if you were Iran? Given the way Iraq and North Korea were respectively treated?

Even if Iran somehow does fail to build nukes, somebody else the US doesn't like WILL do so. It is only a matter of time. The US should be preparing home defences and more importantly, diplomacy. US diplomacy sounds like a conflict in terms now doesn't it?
 
Right right, and that is the US's fault right?I know I know we removed a hated ruthless dictator, we should have expected that the people would get angry about it and start a civil war, with the help of the peaceful surrounding nations

Yes, we should have expected it. In fact, many of us did expect it. Sadam kept these people oppressed and in line, with an Iron fist. It is only natural that once he was removed and a power vacuum was created, these old rivals would rise up and compete to fill it.

Was that not blatantly obvious? It was to pretty much everybody but Bush programmed US conservatives.

Add an invasion by the USA, a hated foreign "Great Satan" (etc) and you've got a recipe for disaster. Did anybody seriously believe that American soldiers would be welcomed with open arms? I doubt even Bush actually believed that propaganda.

I truly wish we would get out of dodge, let them all kill each other, then who will be to blame, I guess people like you since you wanted the only force trying to protect the Iraqis to leave right

Whether the US leaves now or later, there is nothing to suggest that the same bloodshed won't follow. By remaining what is being accomplished other than delaying it? Is it even being delayed? Seems to be taking place even with the US there.

The US doesnt want to "invade" Iran at all, the US wants to stop Iran from producing WMD, if the US goes to war with Iran, you wont see the same type of war.

Wasn't the stated goal of attacking Iran to depose of its socalled WMD? I don't recall plans about an occupation being drawn up prior to attacking Iraq. In fact, there appears to have been no strategy at all to follow the "Mission Accomplished" photo opp on that aircraft carrier.
 
If Muslim countries in the middle east want to the allies to leave Iraq as soon as possible then wouldn't it make more sense for them to stop sponsoring the insurgents. That would mean the allies could finish the job of re-building Iraqi infrastrcture thus fulfilling their promise and then leave- this war could be over if certain countries really wanted it to be over. I don't mean the UK or us either.

But thats far too simple I guess.

It is rather too simple, I agree.

I think it a bit naive to think that the US would just rebuild infrastructure and then pull out, leaving Iraq in the hands of those who are not in the pockets of the US. If they did that, wouldn't it just be a matter of time before certain factions within the US would be clamoring for another invasion and trumping up more charges of WMDs?
 
That image is from the papers today?
It comes down to if we had tapes of radar running. But If we had, the Iranians would say they were faked.

The government have gone through satellite records for proof of the whereabouts at that time...
 
OOOh Barney, someone that has actually been on the ground there recently. Please can you give me the ideiots guide to whats happening over there. Maybe you could send me an email thingy about it. I would love to hear your perspective.

2003 wasnt recent. A lot has changed. I have some freinds still over there. I e-mail them occassionly.
My perspective is from how things were then, and my research since.

In 1999, I was In Kosovo, I wasnt interested in world affairs. That changed after 2003. I want to know what drives people to extremism. I've done a lot of looking into it. i'm here on these boards to learn about evryday islam, peoples opinions on the current friction. Skipping your sarcasm, I have no personal first hand knowlage of current events in Iraq. Do You?

edited bit* By the way...Your sarcasm was reasonably good...If you need any lessons gimme a shout*
 
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2003 wasnt recent. A lot has changed. I have some freinds still over there. I e-mail them occassionly.
My perspective is from how things were then, and my research since.

In 1999, I was In Kosovo, I wasnt interested in world affairs. That changed after 2003. I want to know what drives people to extremism. I've done a lot of looking into it. i'm here on these boards to learn about evryday islam, peoples opinions on the current friction. Skipping your sarcasm, I have no personal first hand knowlage of current events in Iraq. Do You?

edited bit* By the way...Your sarcasm was reasonably good...If you need any lessons gimme a shout*

Barney shame on you, I wasn't being sarcastic (I'm very good at that you'll know it when I am :D ). I was genuinely interested. To me 2003 is recent and as I haven't been there since the first gulf war I really wanted to know if you could enlighten me on the situation there, how did this mess get so far? Thats why I said send me an email so we don't bore other people to death. I too would love to understand what leads people to extremism. If you email I can share what I found out since moving to the middle east.
 
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