Did Jesus (p) Deny Being God?
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Al-Mu'min
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Brother Nimrod.
The sources of your arguments below is the Bible. The problem with qouting the bible is that you know it has alterations. For almost every fact it states, it contradicts itself elsewhere. So my question to you is: How do you know if what you are stating is devine or fabricated?
Let me qoute the Quran:
Here is what the Quran says about the birth:
"When the angel said, "Mary, god gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, -high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will".
When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)
In a chapter (Surah) entitled "Maryam" (Mary), the Quran tells us how Mary gave birth to her son, and how people accused her when she brought the child home:
"Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'Hoe shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed He has made me ,wherever/may be; and hi has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up a live. "Maryam 19:29-33)
Quran 5;46
''And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah''
Q: 5:110
Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
Q:57:27
Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah. but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
Q:43:63
When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me
Q:61:6
And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way
He doesn't.
Q: Chapter 113:
Say: He is Allah, The One and Only
Allah, The Independent
He begets not, and nor was He begotten
And there is none comparable to Him
Agreed.
You say we aren't given enough knowledge, you tell me when you expect we will.
1.He is the one God, Who has no partner.
2.Nothing is like Him. He is the Creator, not created, nor a part ofHis creation.
2.He is All-Powerful, absolutely Just.
3.There is no other entity in the entire universe worthy of worship besides Him.
3.He is First, Last, and Everlasting; He was when nothing was, and will be when nothing else remains.
4.He is the All-Knowing, and All-Merciful,the Supreme, the Sovereign.
5.It is only He Who is capable of granting life to anything.
6.Allah knows what is in our hearts.
And speaking of prophets.. if Jesus was/is God, then why would he need to send us another prophet? Isn't his second coming sufficient? Isn't his Bible his final word? Why does he need to send us another prophet? To correct his message perhaps?
Peace.
The sources of your arguments below is the Bible. The problem with qouting the bible is that you know it has alterations. For almost every fact it states, it contradicts itself elsewhere. So my question to you is: How do you know if what you are stating is devine or fabricated?
Let me qoute the Quran:
Here is what the Quran says about the birth:
"When the angel said, "Mary, god gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, -high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will".
When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)
In a chapter (Surah) entitled "Maryam" (Mary), the Quran tells us how Mary gave birth to her son, and how people accused her when she brought the child home:
"Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'Hoe shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed He has made me ,wherever/may be; and hi has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up a live. "Maryam 19:29-33)
Quran 5;46
''And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah''
Q: 5:110
Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
Q:57:27
Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah. but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
Q:43:63
When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me
Q:61:6
And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way
He doesn't.
Q: Chapter 113:
Say: He is Allah, The One and Only
Allah, The Independent
He begets not, and nor was He begotten
And there is none comparable to Him
Agreed.
One means one....i think.
Yes. Jesus was a man and the Holy Spirit was and Angel (Gabriel). And yet they are worshipped.
Good. Since you believe a prohet was coming, and Mohammed claims to be a prophet, have you tested him? If so what do you think your conclusions of him are?
Jews follow the old Testament. Why don't they worship him?
Exactly. Show me in the bible where it says "trinity". But I disagree with you when you say that we where not given enough knowledge in this lifetime. Why would God leave us alone without enough knowledge about him? I don't believe our Lord works in mysterious ways.
You say we aren't given enough knowledge, you tell me when you expect we will.
You tell me. Shouldn't you know what the Bible describes? You follow it don't you? What God looks like is beyond our comprehension.
By the way. We don't reject niether the old or new testament. They where both books from God before people corrupted them.
Good, i just took a shower.:happy:
Quran is part of the scripture and this is a summary of what it says about God/Allah.
1.He is the one God, Who has no partner.
2.Nothing is like Him. He is the Creator, not created, nor a part ofHis creation.
2.He is All-Powerful, absolutely Just.
3.There is no other entity in the entire universe worthy of worship besides Him.
3.He is First, Last, and Everlasting; He was when nothing was, and will be when nothing else remains.
4.He is the All-Knowing, and All-Merciful,the Supreme, the Sovereign.
5.It is only He Who is capable of granting life to anything.
6.Allah knows what is in our hearts.
Why hasn't any of the Christians tested the dozens of people who came after Jesus and claimed to be prophets with these questions?
And speaking of prophets.. if Jesus was/is God, then why would he need to send us another prophet? Isn't his second coming sufficient? Isn't his Bible his final word? Why does he need to send us another prophet? To correct his message perhaps?
Muslims only claim what thier Lord claims.Isn't He a sufficient enough authority? In other words we believe Jesus was a prophet because Allah tells us to.
Your questions are relevant and I understand what you are trying to show.
Ameen.
Peace.
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Al-Mu'min
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Nimrod,
Peace.
Im speaking of the bible in general. The parts you qouted could perfectly be devine yet they could perfectly be fabricated. I wasn't saying that what you stated above is untrue. I was just saying there was a chance it could've been fabricated and in that sence it isn't 100% factual enough to debate over.
If Christians knew what specific parts of the bible where tampered, then atleast they could follow the part which isn't. But no one knows. As far as Muslims go, we just don't agree with whatever is contradicory to the Quran. The rest is O.K.
Peace.
Im speaking of the bible in general. The parts you qouted could perfectly be devine yet they could perfectly be fabricated. I wasn't saying that what you stated above is untrue. I was just saying there was a chance it could've been fabricated and in that sence it isn't 100% factual enough to debate over.
If Christians knew what specific parts of the bible where tampered, then atleast they could follow the part which isn't. But no one knows. As far as Muslims go, we just don't agree with whatever is contradicory to the Quran. The rest is O.K.
Nicola
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nimrod, You judging from your point of view, but I am repeating again that Allah swt has commanded us to follow only one book sent by him (the Qur'an), and why not the other scriptures, because as they are altered by people through ages and that's why they are not perfect any more, they are not the complete word of God as they used to be when they were revealed, and that's why Qur'an was sent to correct the previous scriptures by (Moses,Jesus ...pbut)
do you have evidence from Qur'an that we are allowed to follow other scriptures except the Qur'an? I would suggest to see a Qur'an how it looks like and read it
The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice;
there is NONE who can change His words
He both heareth and knoweth.
-- Sura 6:115
None can change the words of God;
-- Sura 6:34
There is no changing the words of God;
that is the mighty triumph.
Sura 10:64
And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord,
there is none who can alter His words;
and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.
Sura 18:27
He revealed upon you this book with a just purpose, confirming the [predictions of the] scriptures before it, and He revealed the Torah and the Injil. (3:3)
Indeed messengers have been rejected before you as well. However, they persevered in the face of being rejected and in the face of being persecuted until Our help came to them. And, indeed, no one can alter the words of God. You have already heard of some of the accounts of these messengers. (6:34)
I believe God told Mohammed otherwise...to what Muslims believe now.
Muslim Knight
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Nicola, so you now believe Quran as the word of God?
Nicola
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Yes your right, Jesus did humble himself, when we understand the Bible it becomes very clear, this was his message, put everyone before yourself.. he chose to make himself lowly, born in a stable, he chose to be poor, he chose to clean his disciples feet, he choose to die for us.....this is what we as Christians should do also
God first and secondly everyone else before ourselves. Just like Jesus did..
Muslim Knight
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What are you saying, that God should be humble? To what end? It ill befits the majesty of God.
Nicola
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I understand the Injil is the NT...and doesn't the Quran state Gods word cannot be altered...
Yet today Muslims claim...God allows the Bible to be tampered with.
yet you call us un-believers..
Mohammed believed the OT and NT...and also No one can alter Gods word.
Unless you believe the Bible is not the word of God in that case it can be altered..
Nicola
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The whole purpose of man-kind was for God to have fellowship...he created man for very this reason. He loves everyone and wants fellowship with us all...He doesn't want repetative prayer, but real fellowship..Jesus tells us that. He wants a relationship with us. Do we deserve it...No
Man ruined this fellowship with God by falling to sin..God turns away from sin...because he is so Holy and pure, He even forsake Jesus on the cross when he took all our sins into himself.....
Because of that selfless sacrifice..God found a new way in which we can have true fellowship with him again...like before the falling of man-kind..This is what born-again Christians have today. God called Abraham his friend.
His word (Jesus Christ)..was very humble...The only way we can have that fellowship, true fellowship is if we humble ourselves again to God, like Jesus showed us he put everyone before himself....and this is what we should be doing also to recieve Gods blessings and friendship.
Al-Mu'min
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Dear Nicole,
MAy peace and blessings be upon you. You raise a very good question.
God in those verses is talking about the Quran. Over 1400 not a single letter has been altered:
Verily, those who disbelieved in the Reminder (i.e. the Quran) when it came to them (shall receive the punishment). And verily, it is an honourable respected Book (because it is Allahs Speech, and He has protected it from corruption, etc.). Q41:41
Look at what the Bible said:
"How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes even clearer:
"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had unfortunately turned the Bible into a lie.
See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.
Now Nicola you asked: Why did Allah allow the bible to be tampered or lost right?
Let us see what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding the validity and the reliability of the Bible:
Narrated AbuNamlah al-Ansari: "When he was sitting with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and a Jew was also with him, a funeral passed by him. He (the Jew) asked (Him): Muhammad, does this funeral speak? The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has more knowledge. The Jew said: It speaks.
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"
The following two Sayings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him were sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"
Narrated Abu Huraira: "The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). 'Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460)"
As we clearly see in the above Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, the source that the Jews and Christians use (i.e. the Bible or any other religious source such as their Popes', Rabbis or other religious people's verdicts) must be ignored because it is not reliable. As we've seen in the above introduction, the man-made scribes (laws) had corrupted the Bible and turned it "into a lie" (Jeremiah 8:8).
According to Islam, Allah Almighty (GOD Almighty) in the Bible promised those who try to tamper His Words in the Bible to face hell fire, because He knew that it was going to happen. He gave the people of the book (Jews and Christians) a chance/test and they simply blew it!. Today, there is no one Bible!. The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc... Look at Noble Verse 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)." Israel, when it lost Allah Almighty's grace, began to sin against truth and religion in three ways: (1) they began to misuse Scripture itself, by either taking words out of their right meaning, or applying them to things for which they were never meant; (2) in doing so, they conveniently forgot a part of the Message and purpose of Allah; and (3) they invented new deceits to support the old ones.
Let us look at Noble Verse 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."
Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran on the other hand, did promise that He will personally guard the Noble Quran from corruption. He never promised hell fire to anyone who tries to tamper His words in the Noble Quran. He will guard it Himself; "We (Allah) have, without a doubt, sent down the Message (The Quran); and We (Allah) will assuredly Guard it [from corruption]. (The Noble Quran, 15:9)." Today we have only one Arabic Noble Quran.
May Allah Giude us all.
Ameen.
Peace out.
MAy peace and blessings be upon you. You raise a very good question.
God in those verses is talking about the Quran. Over 1400 not a single letter has been altered:
Verily, those who disbelieved in the Reminder (i.e. the Quran) when it came to them (shall receive the punishment). And verily, it is an honourable respected Book (because it is Allahs Speech, and He has protected it from corruption, etc.). Q41:41
Look at what the Bible said:
"How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes even clearer:
"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had unfortunately turned the Bible into a lie.
See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.
Now Nicola you asked: Why did Allah allow the bible to be tampered or lost right?
Let us see what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding the validity and the reliability of the Bible:
Narrated AbuNamlah al-Ansari: "When he was sitting with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and a Jew was also with him, a funeral passed by him. He (the Jew) asked (Him): Muhammad, does this funeral speak? The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has more knowledge. The Jew said: It speaks.
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"
The following two Sayings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him were sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"
Narrated Abu Huraira: "The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). 'Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460)"
As we clearly see in the above Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, the source that the Jews and Christians use (i.e. the Bible or any other religious source such as their Popes', Rabbis or other religious people's verdicts) must be ignored because it is not reliable. As we've seen in the above introduction, the man-made scribes (laws) had corrupted the Bible and turned it "into a lie" (Jeremiah 8:8).
According to Islam, Allah Almighty (GOD Almighty) in the Bible promised those who try to tamper His Words in the Bible to face hell fire, because He knew that it was going to happen. He gave the people of the book (Jews and Christians) a chance/test and they simply blew it!. Today, there is no one Bible!. The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc... Look at Noble Verse 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)." Israel, when it lost Allah Almighty's grace, began to sin against truth and religion in three ways: (1) they began to misuse Scripture itself, by either taking words out of their right meaning, or applying them to things for which they were never meant; (2) in doing so, they conveniently forgot a part of the Message and purpose of Allah; and (3) they invented new deceits to support the old ones.
Let us look at Noble Verse 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."
Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran on the other hand, did promise that He will personally guard the Noble Quran from corruption. He never promised hell fire to anyone who tries to tamper His words in the Noble Quran. He will guard it Himself; "We (Allah) have, without a doubt, sent down the Message (The Quran); and We (Allah) will assuredly Guard it [from corruption]. (The Noble Quran, 15:9)." Today we have only one Arabic Noble Quran.
May Allah Giude us all.
Ameen.
Peace out.
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Skillganon
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See red, they may be translating a name., you are forgetting other's in the bible are called "god" , even "son of god".
I give you a more astute reply later!
Al-Mu'min
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Peace.
Continuation.
Why did the GOD of Islam allow for the "original" Bible to get corrupted or lost?
The above question has [THREE] parts, so let us see the answers
accordingly. To answer the part ["Muslims believe that the current Bible is
not all the true word of GOD, and only the Quran is"] Yes, Muslims believes
that current bible [OT &NT] is not the one, which God [Allaah] almighty
gave to Moses and Jesus [peace be upon them]. But it is also verified and confirmed by
Noble Qur'aan, which is the main source of Muslims' belief. If you read OT,
NT, and Noble Qur'aan, it will become obvious that all missing links in the
bible are found in Noble Qur'aan and it makes undeniable sense. That is why
once one explore the Noble Qur'aan with its entirety in almost all cases it
is inevitable for him/her to not say the Shahada.
To respond to the second part of question ["If so, then why did the GOD of
Islam allow for His Words to get corrupted in the Bible?"] "If so" is
hardly the case here, beside that one cannot blame the God [Allaah] The
Creator, all Knower, and all Seer of all heavens and earth for allowing His
words to be corrupted. Such blame ONLY represents a typical frivolous
product liability lawsuit mentality. That will not work in this UNIQUE
case, because the God [Allaah], has already replaced the abused and
tempered [by human] product with far SUPERIOR [product] the Final
Revelation *****THE NOBLE QUR'AAN***** Which by the way is another
testament of God's existence that He not only can save His word, but again
He can give mankind a chance to correct himself and follow his true word
[The Noble Qur'aan] to be saved. Because God [Allah] is the Most Beneficent
and Most Merciful.
To answer the last part of question ["or why did He allow for the original
copy of the Bible to be lost?"]. Again in this part we see the frivolous
product liability lawsuit mentality. Having said that God [Allaah] did not
allow [original] copy to be lost. It was the keepers of bible[OT & NT] who
tempered it and hide many facts that resulted in current bible not making
any sense. Which by the way is also confirmed by God [Allaah] in Noble
Qur'aan and I quote:
005.015
YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger,
revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over
much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new)
light and a perspicuous Book, -
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you,
expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture,
and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain
Scripture,
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you
making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over
much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;
Followed by God [Allaah] emphasizing in Noble Qur'aan [next verse]:
005.016
YUSUFALI: Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of
peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the
light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.
PICKTHAL: Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto
paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree,
and guideth them unto a straight path.
SHAKIR: With it Allah guides him who will follow His pleasure into the ways
of safety and brings them out of utter darkness into light by His will and
guides them to the right path.
Bottom line is that as question itself indicates by use of [words]
"original copy" which is highly inappropriate in this case. However,
implication by virtue of question is absurd. Because FORENSIC AND EMPIRICAL
RESULTS proves that MASTER COPY [or SOURCE CODE] was never lost nor
tempered. It was and it has always been in possession of God [Allaah] the
Creator of all heaven and earth. It further proves the existence of ONE and
ONLY God [Allaah] the all Knower and all Seer who way ahead foretold to
Jews and Christians in OT and NT about the arrival of Prophet Muhammed
[saw] and commanded Jews and Christians to follow Prophet Muhammed [saw].
Noble Qur'aan 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews
and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we
worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and
that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they
turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
Noble Qur'aan 3:85! And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will
never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the
losers[].
Example: If Johnny writes a letter to Marry Joe and saves it. That Marry
Joe later edits and/or modify claiming to be original letter by Johnny.
That can be proven wrong by Johnny because he got the master copy. So to
make Marry Joe looks like a fool and a liar all Johnny has to do is to give
another copy of Jean Doe to show the people that she [Marry Joe] is lying.
It pretty bad, for Marry Joe, isn't it?
I hope that answers your question.
Lets pray for better understanding.
Peace out.
Continuation.
Why did the GOD of Islam allow for the "original" Bible to get corrupted or lost?
The above question has [THREE] parts, so let us see the answers
accordingly. To answer the part ["Muslims believe that the current Bible is
not all the true word of GOD, and only the Quran is"] Yes, Muslims believes
that current bible [OT &NT] is not the one
gave to Moses and Jesus [peace be upon them]. But it is also verified and confirmed by
Noble Qur'aan, which is the main source of Muslims' belief. If you read OT,
NT, and Noble Qur'aan, it will become obvious that all missing links in the
bible are found in Noble Qur'aan and it makes undeniable sense. That is why
once one explore the Noble Qur'aan with its entirety in almost all cases it
is inevitable for him/her to not say the Shahada.
To respond to the second part of question ["If so, then why did the GOD of
Islam allow for His Words to get corrupted in the Bible?"] "If so" is
hardly the case here, beside that one cannot blame the God [Allaah] The
Creator, all Knower, and all Seer of all heavens and earth for allowing His
words to be corrupted. Such blame ONLY represents a typical frivolous
product liability lawsuit mentality. That will not work in this UNIQUE
case, because the God [Allaah], has already replaced the abused and
tempered [by human] product with far SUPERIOR [product] the Final
Revelation *****THE NOBLE QUR'AAN***** Which by the way is another
testament of God's existence that He not only can save His word, but again
He can give mankind a chance to correct himself and follow his true word
[The Noble Qur'aan] to be saved. Because God [Allah] is the Most Beneficent
and Most Merciful.
To answer the last part of question ["or why did He allow for the original
copy of the Bible to be lost?"]. Again in this part we see the frivolous
product liability lawsuit mentality. Having said that God [Allaah] did not
allow [original] copy to be lost. It was the keepers of bible[OT & NT] who
tempered it and hide many facts that resulted in current bible not making
any sense. Which by the way is also confirmed by God [Allaah] in Noble
Qur'aan and I quote:
005.015
YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger,
revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over
much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new)
light and a perspicuous Book, -
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you,
expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture,
and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain
Scripture,
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you
making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over
much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;
Followed by God [Allaah] emphasizing in Noble Qur'aan [next verse]:
005.016
YUSUFALI: Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of
peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the
light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.
PICKTHAL: Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto
paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree,
and guideth them unto a straight path.
SHAKIR: With it Allah guides him who will follow His pleasure into the ways
of safety and brings them out of utter darkness into light by His will and
guides them to the right path.
Bottom line is that as question itself indicates by use of [words]
"original copy" which is highly inappropriate in this case. However,
implication by virtue of question is absurd. Because FORENSIC AND EMPIRICAL
RESULTS proves that MASTER COPY [or SOURCE CODE] was never lost nor
tempered. It was and it has always been in possession of God [Allaah] the
Creator of all heaven and earth. It further proves the existence of ONE and
ONLY God [Allaah] the all Knower and all Seer who way ahead foretold to
Jews and Christians in OT and NT about the arrival of Prophet Muhammed
[saw] and commanded Jews and Christians to follow Prophet Muhammed [saw].
Noble Qur'aan 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews
and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we
worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and
that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they
turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
Noble Qur'aan 3:85! And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will
never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the
losers[].
Example: If Johnny writes a letter to Marry Joe and saves it. That Marry
Joe later edits and/or modify claiming to be original letter by Johnny.
That can be proven wrong by Johnny because he got the master copy. So to
make Marry Joe looks like a fool and a liar all Johnny has to do is to give
another copy of Jean Doe to show the people that she [Marry Joe] is lying.
It pretty bad, for Marry Joe, isn't it?
I hope that answers your question.
Lets pray for better understanding.
Peace out.
Last edited:
Skillganon
Skillganon
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The Word worship.
Ancient Hebrew Vocabulary
Worship (shehhah)
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_worship.html said:
You see the word worship has been wrongly translated!
Thank's .
Last edited:
Nicola
IB Veteran
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no I am saying this:
Jeremiah was written before Mohammed yet...Mohammed had no problems believing it.
So is this a contridiction?
We have
All these documents teach the same doctrines as our Gospels and NT.
This below is an index of all files in the EWTN "Patristics" Document Library as of 8/18/2005 sorted by library and title
All these writings 1003 of them are the same has the OT and NT of today.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/indexes/PATRISTC.htm
I offer you the facts that the Bible as not been changed...with the link above..plus the other evidence of the NT dating back from AD150..which you can read for yourself through a google search...
I could give you list after list but unless people are willing to study it is of little point..
We also have the evidence of the dead sea scrolls.
The Hebrew manuscripts of the OT dated from AD900, amongst these scrolls were two copies of Isaish, they reveal word for word accuray in 95% of the text 5% of various spelling mistakes, fragments of Deuteronomy and Samuel these also do not differ in doctrine or teaching...They do not affect the message of revelation in any way.
Please provide your evidence (fact) that you know Bible is corrupt and which years this corruption happen and why?
Al-Mu'min
Esteemed Member
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Peace again.
Why do you think this is a contradicition? It is commonly known that Mohammed and Muslims believe in all the scriptures before the Quran( ie; Injeel, Torah, and Zubur or Psalms).
Peace out.
Well that is a statement that conceals as much as it reveals. More accurately, Muhammed and Muslims believe in a lot of scriptures which no longer exists and which they claim are the real versions of the New Testament, Torah etc. They are required to believe in these as a matter of faith because they have not ever seen them or studied them.