Did you do the 2mins Silence for the 7/7 Victims

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I apologise j4763, i just thought it would be a better way of remembering them to actually help those currently in need.


Accept my apology please.

eace:

 

[Panatella]

Dawud_uk,
I would like to address your last post, in particular your second and third issues of your second discussion (as you have organized your post).

The first question I would like to ask is, what is the covenant you refer to when you say that the kufar broke the covenant? Perhaps you are referring to something that the british government had agreed to? At any rate, the average citizen agreed to nothing, and had no covenant with anyone. They are only going about their business.

The next thing I would like to mention is that it appears that you suggest that it is permissable, and that the 7/7 attacks were ok, and nothing was done wrong. It seems that you suggest that muslims are allowed to attack the kuffar, and this implies that there is in fact an "us against them" war going on.

So, having said that, let us take the next logical step with this train of thought, shall we? Since by your own words there are two serperate groups in Britain, muslims and kafir, and by your own words these two groups are actually enemies, then why waste time? Why beat around the bush? Why don't the kufar view muslims for what they are (by your words), an enemy? Why don't they just attack muslims wherever they find them? Blow up the mosques? Burn the muslims houses? Burn muslim schools? KIll muslims they see in the street? Why not?

After all, by your words Dawud, the kafir are the enemy, and it is permissable to kill them. So, by that very reasoning, then it would also be permissable for kafir to kill muslims.

Except for one thing. It is the UK. No sharia law. No muslim rule. No dimwit fools allowing the killing of others because in their foolish view someone unknowingly broke a covenant with them, making it permissable. None of that. British rule.

British laws. Laws that never make it permissable to kill. Ever. And don't bother to feed me that cock and bull line about "Muslims follow the rule of islam not Britain", it doesn't fly. If you live in Britain, then you must live by british rules. If it is not acceptable to you, then simply pack your bags and immigrate to a country that has rules that you can live by.

There are a few people that keep suggesting, or hinting at least, that they would like some kind of war with the kafir. Or, at least suggest that it is permissable for muslims to attack nonmuslims, and that it is ok.

Well, be careful what you wish for. Think about it. Is that what people really want? Religious and/or racial warfare? Citizens openly attacking citizens in the streets. Muslim houses burning. Your family living in real fear. Is that what people really want?

I say to anyone that thinks attacks on anyone is ok, "grow up".
You don't know what you are saying. You don't know what fear is.

 

[SirZubair]

Edit :

Forget it,it seems like i am wasting my time.

I pray that ALlah swt guides you all the the straight path.And places Mercy in everyones heart.

Wa'salaam.

 

[Dawud_uk]

:salamext:
Well, strangely, I seem to see where everyone is coming from. But, I don't think we should do a silence for the people in Afghanistan, Iraq or anywhere. What will silence do? We should be doing the exact opposite. The prophet (SAW) taught us that civillians are not targets, so we cannot hold the civillians accountable for the actions of the government. So their blood is precious aswell. I could easily say that they voted for the government so that makes them targets. And I think I may have thought like that at one point. But alhamdulillah no more.
The kuffar are not our teachers. We follow the Rasul (SAW), the mercy of all Mankind.
:wasalamex

assalaamu alaykum,

check out the seerah, when the jews broke their covanant and fought against the muslims and stabbed them in the back whilst the pagans attacked mekkah did the prophet Muhammad (saws) make any distinction between their combatants and non-combatants? check it out for yourself.

sometimes he was merciful and didnt kill civilians, sometimes he and the sahabah saw other needs depending on the circumstances and then another set of rules applies and this can be seen by the example of the sahahabah also.

did abu bakr when he was kalif make any distinction between combatant and non-combatant during the apostacy wars?

did khalid bin al waleed make such distinctions in his wars against the persians and romans? sometimes he did, sometimes not.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

 

[north_malaysian]

Nope. I dont know which time in accordance to Malaysian time. Sorry. But I pray for world peace.

But Bush celebrated his 60th Birthday on that day, isnt it?

 

[Sis786]

Edit :

Forget it,it seems like i am wasting my time.

I pray that ALlah swt guides you all the the straight path.And places Mercy in everyones heart.

Wa'salaam.

Bro i dont knwo why you edited your post it was a good comment i did also metion above that the freedom of speech can be taken too far and the cartoonist from Denmark was a clear example for all.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Dawud_uk,
I would like to address your last post, in particular your second and third issues of your second discussion (as you have organized your post).

The first question I would like to ask is, what is the covenant you refer to when you say that the kufar broke the covenant? Perhaps you are referring to something that the british government had agreed to? At any rate, the average citizen agreed to nothing, and had no covenant with anyone. They are only going about their business.

The next thing I would like to mention is that it appears that you suggest that it is permissable, and that the 7/7 attacks were ok, and nothing was done wrong. It seems that you suggest that muslims are allowed to attack the kuffar, and this implies that there is in fact an "us against them" war going on.

So, having said that, let us take the next logical step with this train of thought, shall we? Since by your own words there are two serperate groups in Britain, muslims and kafir, and by your own words these two groups are actually enemies, then why waste time? Why beat around the bush? Why don't the kufar view muslims for what they are (by your words), an enemy? Why don't they just attack muslims wherever they find them? Blow up the mosques? Burn the muslims houses? Burn muslim schools? KIll muslims they see in the street? Why not?

After all, by your words Dawud, the kafir are the enemy, and it is permissable to kill them. So, by that very reasoning, then it would also be permissable for kafir to kill muslims.

Except for one thing. It is the UK. No sharia law. No muslim rule. No dimwit fools allowing the killing of others because in their foolish view someone unknowingly broke a covenant with them, making it permissable. None of that. British rule.

British laws. Laws that never make it permissable to kill. Ever. And don't bother to feed me that cock and bull line about "Muslims follow the rule of islam not Britain", it doesn't fly. If you live in Britain, then you must live by british rules. If it is not acceptable to you, then simply pack your bags and immigrate to a country that has rules that you can live by.

There are a few people that keep suggesting, or hinting at least, that they would like some kind of war with the kafir. Or, at least suggest that it is permissable for muslims to attack nonmuslims, and that it is ok.

Well, be careful what you wish for. Think about it. Is that what people really want? Religious and/or racial warfare? Citizens openly attacking citizens in the streets. Muslim houses burning. Your family living in real fear. Is that what people really want?

I say to anyone that thinks attacks on anyone is ok, "grow up".
You don't know what you are saying. You don't know what fear is.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

read what i have written again, i didnt say we are at war with all the kuffar, or that such acts were permissable only people should look for themselves and examine the issue islamically.

all i did was break the issue down into its component parts and asked people to examine the different view points themselves. if only one of those component parts was incorrect then so was the whole act.

in referrring to the covanant i mentioned, that is an islamic term meaning an agreement between two people, or two peoples etc.

for example, those muslims who live here in the west agree to live by the laws and regulations of this land as long as it doesnt contradict the laws and regulations of islam and the government agreed when they let them into this country to let them practice their faith in peace. for example if the UK banned hijab or prayer than it is obligatory for us to disobey that law.

but as muslims how can a covanant be valid with a people who are attacking, murdering, raping another muslim people or more than one muslim people in other parts of the world?

where are your precious human rights with how you treat the people of iraq and afghanistan? they are thrown out of the window when you go and invade other peoples.

so clearly it cannot be valid to say the covanant is intact with what britain is doing in iraq and afghanistan, however this does not mean we are at war or that all muslims should go out and attack their neighbour or non-muslims attack their muslim neighbours.

you are putting words in my mouth and then making assumptions yourself based upon those words put in my mouth.

i will still behave well towards all, not break any laws because that is just sensible and observe the rules of islam in my relations with others. i just no longer view the covanant as binding or holding upon me or other muslims here.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Daw'ud

 

[SirZubair]

Br.Dawud,.. are you comparing the Hikma of Prophet Muhammed (saw) and Abu Bakr (r.a) to the sick,twisted minds of the 7/7 bombers?

 

[north_malaysian]

the sick,twisted minds of the 7/7 bombers?

I do agree with this statement.

 

[Ameeratul Layl]

Salam.

I didn't know about it until I watched the news. It was too late my then.

Wasalam.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Br.Dawud,.. are you comparing the Hikma of Prophet Muhammed (saw) and Abu Bakr (r.a) to the sick,twisted minds of the 7/7 bombers?

assalaamu alaykum sir zubair,

none of us are on their level, but if we follow their example then there is a chance we can achieve jannah and if we deviate from it then we land ourselves in the hellfire.

remember the haddith about the many lines drawn by the prophet Muhammad along with one straight line in the middle. the straight line is the deen of islam and the deviated lines all have a shaitan calling to them.

the straight line is what the prophet Muhammad (saws) and his companions are upon and what we should all remain upon.

i am not arguing they are right or wrong, i am saying they have legitimate evidence for their position that we all have to examine in detail and look at those scholars and question them who have a position for or against such a position.

Sir Zubair, do you acknowledge there were circumstances where 'civilians' were killed by the prohet Muhammad (saws) and by his companions when their people fought against islam as a whole?

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

 

[Sis786]

Sir Zubair, do you acknowledge there were circumstances where 'civilians' were killed by the prohet Muhammad (saws) and by his companions when their people fought against islam as a whole?

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

Bro,

I know this question aint directed at me But i want to say that you are right that in the time of the Prophet SAW some civilians did die and i know that they did thier best to avoid this, But this is no comparison to 7/7.

The Prophet SAW fought for Islam and yes we dont know the intentions of the Bombers but it is crystal clear that this could not do any good to the religion of Peace.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Bro,

I know this question aint directed at me But i want to say that you are right that in the time of the Prophet SAW some civilians did die and i know that they did thier best to avoid this, But this is no comparison to 7/7.

The Prophet SAW fought for Islam and yes we dont know the intentions of the Bombers but it is crystal clear that this could not do any good to the religion of Peace.

assalaamu alaykum sis786,

read the seerah again, there were circumstances where all the men of fighting age were killed and all the rest of that people enslaved such as with the jews when they fought against the muslims after making a covanant with them. 'civilians' in the western sense but as their people had fought against islam so they were all targetted and killed or enslaved.

the prophet Muhammad (saws) and the early generations of islam sometimes saw that the circumstances were right to be merciful in war and sometimes they were not because of the situation.

i am not saying that proves 7/7 was right, just look at the evidence yourself and read the seerah fully, not the selective qoutes from scholars of the west who make a nice living out of being so nice and cosy with the kaffir rulers.

the situation is not as straight forward as some 'scholars' would have you believe. when we are told to beware scholars found at the gates of rulers how much worse those found at the gates of the kaffir rulers who have slaughtered thousands of muslims and these scholars are given free access to them?

How much more should we boycott those scholars and warn against them than even those scholars found at the gates of muslim rulers?

open you eyes sister, read the seerah and study the situation before you flatly condemn.

i am not 100% sure either way so i am just asking people like yourself and sir zubair dont blindly condemn without examining the evidence for their position first and i would once again warn you to beware those scholars who obviously have a vested interest in propping up the kaffir and apostate rulers either in the west or in the lands of islam.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

 

[Sis786]

assalaamu alaykum sis786,

read the seerah again, there were circumstances where all the men of fighting age were killed and all the rest of that people enslaved such as with the jews when they fought against the muslims after making a covanant with them. 'civilians' in the western sense but as their people had fought against islam so they were all targetted and killed or enslaved.

the prophet Muhammad (saws) and the early generations of islam sometimes saw that the circumstances were right to be merciful in war and sometimes they were not because of the situation.

i am not saying that proves 7/7 was right, just look at the evidence yourself and read the seerah fully, not the selective qoutes from scholars of the west who make a nice living out of being so nice and cosy with the kaffir rulers.

the situation is not as straight forward as some 'scholars' would have you believe. when we are told to beware scholars found at the gates of rulers how much worse those found at the gates of the kaffir rulers who have slaughtered thousands of muslims and these scholars are given free access to them?

How much more should we boycott those scholars and warn against them than even those scholars found at the gates of muslim rulers?

open you eyes sister, read the seerah and study the situation before you flatly condemn.

i am not 100% sure either way so i am just asking people like yourself and sir zubair dont blindly condemn without examining the evidence for their position first and i would once again warn you to beware those scholars who obviously have a vested interest in propping up the kaffir and apostate rulers either in the west or in the lands of islam.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

I know what you are saying and i have spoke to many who have had the same views.

Like i said the views of the Bombers are only known by them, But it hasnt done no good and i cant see how someone could think that it would do good.

Allah SWT knws best!

 

[Dawud_uk]

I know what you are saying and i have spoke to many who have had the same views.

Like i said the views of the Bombers are only known by them, But it hasnt done no good and i cant see how someone could think that it would do good.

Allah SWT knws best!

assalaamu alaykum sis786,

i am in no way saying this justifies the killings, but look at what happened in spain? there was a massive bombing, the government is thrown out and the new one pulls its troops from iraq straight away. cause and effect.

obl threatens the west including italy, and a new government is voted in who wish to pull their troops out of iraq, cause and effect.

the kaffirs in the west are soft from decades and sometimes centuries of decadent living on the exploitative system of first colonialism and then neo-colonialism.

the same thing happened to previous civilisations - the greeks, the romans, the british empire, and now the US. they grow rich and powerful on a military history but then become soft and vulnerable through easy living.

the same thing happened to the muslims i must add, we also become soft and decadent and the prophet Muhammad (saws) specificially warned us against having wahan in our hearts, wahan is the love of the dunya and hatred of death but the difference is we have the previous pious generations to refer to and judge ourselves by and so change ourselves to follow their example.

i have no contact with terrorists, but i assume they have themselves also looked at the softness of the West at home and decided that it is easier to attack them where they are most vulnerable and force the public mood to change in britain through attacking their civilians just as they have attacked our civilians.

the idea to change the public mood just as it was changed in spain and force the government to change policy by public pressure rather than directly fighting their armies which are massively better armed.

I do personally think it lacked wisdom to do this at this time though, whether it was permissable or not so dont think i am saying it is right, but i refuse to say something is haram when there is so much evidence to suggest it isnt and i would warn others from saying haram without clear evidence.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

assalaamu alaykum,

check out the seerah, when the jews broke their covanant and fought against the muslims and stabbed them in the back whilst the pagans attacked mekkah did the prophet Muhammad (saws) make any distinction between their combatants and non-combatants? check it out for yourself.

sometimes he was merciful and didnt kill civilians, sometimes he and the sahabah saw other needs depending on the circumstances and then another set of rules applies and this can be seen by the example of the sahahabah also.

did abu bakr when he was kalif make any distinction between combatant and non-combatant during the apostacy wars?

did khalid bin al waleed make such distinctions in his wars against the persians and romans? sometimes he did, sometimes not.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

:salamext:

I do not think we are in a position to say that any civillian has a right to die. The Sahaba (radhiyAllahu ánhum) had more knowledge than we can hope to gain.
If the prophet (SAW) taught us to be merciful to animals, should we not be merciful to our fellow human beings? And there are some who consider Muslims who are killed as 'collateral damage'. This is a clear trait of Al-Khawaarij. Muslims also died in the London bombings, akhee. Do you know how many British people marched against the War in Iraq? Why should they die? What crime did they commit? And I am sure that there were even more who disagreed with the war who didn't march.
The people who committed the 7/7 bombings, and the 9/11 bombings (whoever they were), or any other terrorist attack are murderers, plain and simple.
May Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong, and Allah knows best.

:wasalamex

 

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

I’m actually quite sickened by reading many of the posts within in thread. It’s like (as someone else has already put it) a British life means less than a non British life.

Yes its true ever day people lose there life’s and there is no silence for them, but this event happened in the heart of London and effected many British people. I don’t know if its custom for other countries to hold minute silences but us British do, like each year for those who died in WW2 or are those life’s irrelevant because they weren’t all Muslims?

I think a lot of you need to grow up and give some respect! :heated:

and wot about the lil children and women affected by their fathers/husbands/brothers or whoeva dyin? a family in iraq has lost atleast 2 family member durin dis stupid war.. and actually there wer muslims that had lost their lives at da 7/7 bombings.. so wot u on about :?

 

[SirZubair]

Sir Zubair, do you acknowledge there were circumstances where 'civilians' were killed by the prohet Muhammad (saws) and by his companions when their people fought against islam as a whole?

akhi,

Yes,civilians have been killed during those times,i won't deny that.

But once again,there is a difference between a Holy War and "i don't know who my target is,..but i'll blow myself up and kill any woman,man,child who is close enough..",don't you think?

:wasalaam:

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

and wot about the lil children and women affected by their fathers/husbands/brothers or whoeva dyin? a family in iraq has lost atleast 2 family member durin dis stupid war.. and actually there wer muslims that had lost their lives at da 7/7 bombings.. so wot u on about :?

Agreed !

 

[j4763]

and wot about the lil children and women affected by their fathers/husbands/brothers or whoeva dyin? a family in iraq has lost atleast 2 family member durin dis stupid war.. and actually there wer muslims that had lost their lives at da 7/7 bombings.. so wot u on about :?

Well no disrespect but the minute silence was held in Britain for the people who died in Britain that day.
If you want to remember the fathers, husbands, brothers or whoever dying in other countries that’s up to you. But this was based in Britain and the silence held in Britain.

It’s a British thing, should we not hold a minutes silence for all the British who died in WW2 each year?

It may not do much for the dead, it may not do much for the maimed or the families who were effected. Its all about respect.

and actually there wer muslims that had lost their lives at da 7/7 bombings.. so wot u on about :?

Then surly your brothers and sisters who died that day should be shown some respect too?