discussion on the Trinity doctrine

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glo said:
He is doing neither.
He is merely explaining it.
It's actually nice to hear a Muslim explain it - perhaps it makes it clearer to other Muslims.

I don't think Idris is trying to turn people away from Islam here ... :thankyou:

peace.
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Hmm, yea but he seemed to just be explaining it, and I thought he would have done it with the bible, but then he posted some scriptures that seemed he was like saying that the Bible is confusing.

Thats what confused me, at first I thought he was using the Bible to explain the trinity, then it seemed like he used it to disprove some stuff.

:?
 
And of course we cant understand everything about G-d in this life, I dont know baout the next.

but the basic understanding of him being One or One in Three should be simple.

We wont know, things like 'G-d was always there' we cant understand that.
Or G-d has no end.
Or G-d just is.


that yea we dont get it,

But whether G-d is one or Three in One or Everything, or In us all. that should be easy.
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Apology to anyone who might feel offended by disregarding the theory of trinity but we are presenting what is written in the Holy Scripture of Sikhs. We do not mean in any way to disrespect someone and their beliefs.[/B]
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- LOL no need to apologise for not believing in Trinity, or for qouting your Book. We know you're not Christian! :)
 
Marya1 said:
that's the whole thing about the trinity- it's ILLOGICAL
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"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James)

Or, as the Paraphrase puts it:

"But the man who isn't a Christian can't understand and can't accept these thoughts from God, which the Holy Spirit teaches us. They sound foolish to him, because only those who have the Holy Spirit within them can understand what the Holy Spirit means. Others just can't take it in." 1 Corinthians 2:14 (Living Bible)

Peace
 
:sl:

It seems people agree that Trinity is illogical – but this is then backed up by saying God is beyond human understanding hence it is ok.

I agree God is beyond human understanding but to give an example of this is absurd.

To believe God transcends rational and then give an example of this i.e. trinity is self contradictory.

Only through logic and reason have we come to the conclusion that the concept of trinity is contradictory then how did God go beyond human understanding?

:w:
 
Phil12123 said:
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James)
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Sounds like the easy way out, someone preaches something Illogical and then says, 'dont worry, yall jus have faith, others might question but it is only illogical to them because he doesnt have faith'

:hiding: :hiding:
 
IsaAbdullah said:
Sounds like the easy way out, someone preaches something Illogical and then says, 'dont worry, yall jus have faith, others might question but it is only illogical to them because he doesnt have faith'

:hiding: :hiding:
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Many atheists i know say it's illogical to believe in good God in the word full of suffering. But it makes some sense to both of us. Although for nonbelivers it may be illogical.
n.
 
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duskiness said:
Many atheists i know say it's illogical to believe in good God in the word full of suffering. But it makes some sense to both of us. Although for nonbelivers it may be illogical.
n.
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Lets look at the Bible and see how your point is different to this:


"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James)

The Bible here is saying, that it does not make sense to natural man. And it cannot make sense to him unless he has faith.

With regards to Athiest they can see it logically, some may not but some can see it logical, taht this world can have suffering but that G-d will reward the suffering in the hereafter.

Thats why the comparison you made doesnt seem to go down well.
 
IsaAbdullah said:
Lets look at the Bible and see how your point is different to this:

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James)

The Bible here is saying, that it does not make sense to natural man. And it cannot make sense to him unless he has faith.

With regards to Athiest they can see it logically, some may not but some can see it logical, that this world can have suffering but that G-d will reward the suffering in the hereafter.

Thats why the comparison you made doesnt seem to go down well.
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I think she makes a good point. I'm not getting your point, though, because why would an Atheist see God rewarding the suffering in the hereafter? He doesn't believe in any God. How is what you say logical?

One other thing. 1 Cor. 2:14 was speaking of "things of the Spirit of God" that have to be spiritually discerned. Relying on logic is NOT using the Spirit to understand something. Logic is what seems reasonable to the natural mind quite apart from the Spirit. The natural, unspiritual mind sees things solely from man's perspective, not God's. If we want God's perspective we have to get it from the Spirit of God, not from human reasoning and logic.

Isaiah 55:
8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Unless God reveals it to us, the things of the Spirit of God will always seem like foolishness and seem unreasonable and illogical. God in His Word reveals the truth of the Trinity. It only remains for us to believe what He tells us, not decide if it is logical enough to believe.

Peace
 
Phil12123 said:
I think she makes a good point. I'm not getting your point, though, because why would an Atheist see God rewarding the suffering in the hereafter? He doesn't believe in any God. How is what you say logical?
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ok I will go into again for you:

She said:
Many atheists i know say it's illogical to believe in good God in the word full of suffering.


That is what is illogical to the Athiest, does he have to believe it himself? No, he is just analizing a belief. mainly the belief in a Good G-d while this world is in such a state.

Now what I said:

With regards to Athiest they can see it logically, some may not but some can see it logical, that this world can have suffering but that G-d will reward the suffering in the hereafter.


Now I am not talking about the Athiest believeing in G-d, since I was responding, I was taking her stand point of the Athiest looking at someone's belief of a Good G-d, now if the Athiest, was to be a logical person he would look at all of the Belief, not just that someone believes in a Good G-d but this world is bad so the Athiest renders it illogical, a logical Athiest would look at all of the belief including the part which states that people will be rewarded for their suffering, thus an Athiest, who doesnt believe in G-d, can still see this logically.



Phil12123 said:
One other thing. 1 Cor. 2:14 was speaking of "things of the Spirit of God" that have to be spiritually discerned. Relying on logic is NOT using the Spirit to understand something. Logic is what seems reasonable to the natural mind quite apart from the Spirit. The natural, unspiritual mind sees things solely from man's perspective, not God's. If we want God's perspective we have to get it from the Spirit of God, not from human reasoning and logic.

Isaiah 55:
8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Unless God reveals it to us, the things of the Spirit of God will always seem like foolishness and seem unreasonable and illogical. God in His Word reveals the truth of the Trinity. It only remains for us to believe what He tells us, not decide if it is logical enough to believe.

Peace
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I dont see how this plays any part, I stated it seemed like an easy thing to just teach people something Illogical and then tell them, you believe in it and have faith, but this will jus be illogical to others because they dont have faith yet. It seems you agree that this is what has happend.

I guess this could be taken further but I don't see any fruitfull conversation arising, if you do then I'd be more than happy to keep talking friend.

Peace
 
trinity- 3 gods in one or 1 god in3? father=1 holy spirit=1 and the son=1. but 1+1+1=3. Edited by Woodrow comment wasinappropriate
 
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person said:
trinity- 3 gods in one or 1 god in3? father=1 holy spirit=1 and the son=1. but 1+1+1=3. Edited by Woodrow comment was inappropriate.
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With all due respect, have you read this thread?
Are you interested in learning what Christians believe about the trinity? Or do you just want to belittle it?
Because you don't understand and/or don't believe the concept of the trinity, you call it 'messed up'??

In the few months I have spent in this forum I have gained a huge respect for those people who can hear other peoples' views and beliefs without feeling the need to criticise them for it.
Being a follower of your faith does not mean you have to discredit all other faiths ... I think.

Peace.
 
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I hate to quote myself but...

iLL_LeaT said:
I have read somewhere that the Trinity was actually thought up by the Greeks, and the whole point of it was to remind people that God isn’t comprehensible. Having one God in three separate parts is a little confusing. Having one God in three parts is, in fact, not suppose to be comprehended, just understood.
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islamgyal said:
excues me that is not nice at all i am a christain here (Edited by Woodrow comment was inappropriate)show some respect atleast!, the mods whatever you call them i think you need to delete this how can you let this stay on it's not acceptable and also where not all muslims here!!! :offended: :offended: :offended: :offended: :offended: :offended:
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Don't be upset, Samantha! :thankyou:

Until I found this forum, I innocently assumed that everybody has an understanding of the basic Christian beliefs. Living in a country which describes itself as predominantly Christian, that was an understandable assumption to make.

I have since come to understand that many people have a very limited, if any understanding of Christian doctrine.
You will read stuff that may seem very odd.
And some things will sound positively blasphemous.
Some comments may stem from ignorance, others from a desire to cause division.

Try to remember that this is a Muslim forum, and we are guests. :)

If you stay, you will meet many nice and friendly people, who want to learn from and understand each other.
There may be some exceptions - but then, that's human nature!

God Bless! :thankyou:
 

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