Re: Guru Granth Sahib?
i apologise, my intention was not to offend.
Abu Abdullah
i apologise, my intention was not to offend.
Abu Abdullah
Discussion/Questions on Sikhism
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Re: beginners guide to sikhism?
Sister I have great respect for you, and your religion. (as you may know from the Sikhism threads.) and I know you understand panjabi too.
Time and time again, Sikhi is mocked by few people on here. Yes this is an Islamic forum, where non-muslims come to learn about Islam. But insulting our religion just to make yours look better, is not beneficial to anyone. (not saying you have, you seem to be very tolerant of Sikhi, from your previous posts)
A debate is one thing, but if you ask a question, and you don't like the answer mods delete the post. Like I say, Allah is the creator of u and me. You follow what you believe to be the Word of God and us Sikhs beleive what we are led to believe. - There is no conflict in our Sikh doctrine with any other religion. Yes it mentions the falshood practised by people who claim to be holy/religious. - Just remember Allah is the most powerful, and he may be called Khuda, Ram, Waheguru, Mola, Parmeshwar, Jehohvah or God! - IT IS THE ONE AND SAME!!
Like Snakelegs says, Sikhi is no about drawing in the crowds as so manyreligions do. It's about QUALITY. Worship the one GOD. Whao gave us all life. We are the same and equal regardless of colour, race, hair coulur or langauges we speak. ALLAH MADE US ALL!!
Aval Allah Noor Piaya Kudrat Ke Bande
Allah Created Everybody,
Sister I have great respect for you, and your religion. (as you may know from the Sikhism threads.) and I know you understand panjabi too.
Time and time again, Sikhi is mocked by few people on here. Yes this is an Islamic forum, where non-muslims come to learn about Islam. But insulting our religion just to make yours look better, is not beneficial to anyone. (not saying you have, you seem to be very tolerant of Sikhi, from your previous posts)
A debate is one thing, but if you ask a question, and you don't like the answer mods delete the post. Like I say, Allah is the creator of u and me. You follow what you believe to be the Word of God and us Sikhs beleive what we are led to believe. - There is no conflict in our Sikh doctrine with any other religion. Yes it mentions the falshood practised by people who claim to be holy/religious. - Just remember Allah is the most powerful, and he may be called Khuda, Ram, Waheguru, Mola, Parmeshwar, Jehohvah or God! - IT IS THE ONE AND SAME!!
Like Snakelegs says, Sikhi is no about drawing in the crowds as so manyreligions do. It's about QUALITY. Worship the one GOD. Whao gave us all life. We are the same and equal regardless of colour, race, hair coulur or langauges we speak. ALLAH MADE US ALL!!
Aval Allah Noor Piaya Kudrat Ke Bande
Allah Created Everybody,
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Re: beginners guide to sikhism?
False!!
SGGS are the words of God. The Dasam Granth is not regarded by ANYONE to nbe the Words of God, but of His Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Guru Gobind Sinng, stated these are the words, and they shall be praised and God shall ne worshipped by uttering from the SGGS! - Show me a person who refutes the SGGS is not the only holy book?
Muslims have people who disregard the Hadiths, and say the Quran Shareef is not complete THIS IS BY MUSLIMS THEMSELVES - Find me just one Sikh who says the SGGS is false, or only some of it should be recitited, yet ignore the rest? PLEASE DO, FIND ME ANYTHING!!
False!!
SGGS are the words of God. The Dasam Granth is not regarded by ANYONE to nbe the Words of God, but of His Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Guru Gobind Sinng, stated these are the words, and they shall be praised and God shall ne worshipped by uttering from the SGGS! - Show me a person who refutes the SGGS is not the only holy book?
Muslims have people who disregard the Hadiths, and say the Quran Shareef is not complete THIS IS BY MUSLIMS THEMSELVES - Find me just one Sikh who says the SGGS is false, or only some of it should be recitited, yet ignore the rest? PLEASE DO, FIND ME ANYTHING!!
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Re: beginners guide to sikhism?
Because even though Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the Guru gaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Dasam Granth still has the words of the tenth master. so it is our duty as Guru Sahibs sikhs to respect Guru Gobind Singh jis bani....
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani.
Therefore Dasam Granth must be treated with utmost respect from Gursikhs even though Guru Gobind Singh ji didnt command it. Its become a Gursikhs duty to do so.
When i refer to Gursikhs, i refer to khalsa. you will always have in any religion fake guys such as imams, priests, etc who will be corrupt. i remeber muslims friends in the past telling me of such and such dodgy imams. The 3 Bani nitnem was decided after the british invasion... where various meetings took place to resort panthic maryada. 3 banis where set as a bare basic.. but AKJ in india, and in UK all still read 5 bania. i know this as i have spent time with the jathedars of both countries.
now as far as the meat issue is concernd. panj piareh give rehat, they command no meat should be consumed. some people may translate texts to state sikhs shouldnt eat halaal meat, and many say its for meat in general.. however...
Tilang, Fifth Mehla, First House:
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe.
The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. ||1||
O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish.
The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. ||Pause||
Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat.
So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. ||2||
Your benefactors, presents, companions, courts, lands and homes
- when Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death seizes you, what good will these be to you then? ||3||
The Pure Lord God knows your condition.
O Nanak, recite your prayer to the holy people. ||4||1||
Kabeer, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper.
When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? ||199||
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||
You do not know the exalted state of the Lord's Name; how will you ever cross over? ||1||
You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action?
You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||
You are blind in your mind, and do not understand your own self; how can you make others understand, O brother?
Rehatnama:
Meat, opium, drugs and tobacco. Ganja, wearing hats, another's woman and alcohol. He who never even gazes at these evils. Recognise them as my true disciplined Singh.
If blood has stained your clothing you say your clothes have become impure. How can the thought of those who eat meat, drink blood and suck bones become pure?"
Akaal Takht Sahib sets panthic maryada. a core basis. now Rehat is given more stricter or less by different jatha bandis. but they all still have the same core.
People always will put different views and opinions and change thing to what they believe... the amount of fractions in islam would probably go over the amount in sikhi 10 fold atleast.
The fact is, akaal takht sahib is the core, and the whole sikh panth has the same core maryada!
Because even though Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the Guru gaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Dasam Granth still has the words of the tenth master. so it is our duty as Guru Sahibs sikhs to respect Guru Gobind Singh jis bani....
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani.
Therefore Dasam Granth must be treated with utmost respect from Gursikhs even though Guru Gobind Singh ji didnt command it. Its become a Gursikhs duty to do so.
When i refer to Gursikhs, i refer to khalsa. you will always have in any religion fake guys such as imams, priests, etc who will be corrupt. i remeber muslims friends in the past telling me of such and such dodgy imams. The 3 Bani nitnem was decided after the british invasion... where various meetings took place to resort panthic maryada. 3 banis where set as a bare basic.. but AKJ in india, and in UK all still read 5 bania. i know this as i have spent time with the jathedars of both countries.
now as far as the meat issue is concernd. panj piareh give rehat, they command no meat should be consumed. some people may translate texts to state sikhs shouldnt eat halaal meat, and many say its for meat in general.. however...
Tilang, Fifth Mehla, First House:
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe.
The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. ||1||
O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish.
The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. ||Pause||
Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat.
So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. ||2||
Your benefactors, presents, companions, courts, lands and homes
- when Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death seizes you, what good will these be to you then? ||3||
The Pure Lord God knows your condition.
O Nanak, recite your prayer to the holy people. ||4||1||
Kabeer, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper.
When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? ||199||
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||
You do not know the exalted state of the Lord's Name; how will you ever cross over? ||1||
You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action?
You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2||
You are blind in your mind, and do not understand your own self; how can you make others understand, O brother?
Rehatnama:
Meat, opium, drugs and tobacco. Ganja, wearing hats, another's woman and alcohol. He who never even gazes at these evils. Recognise them as my true disciplined Singh.
If blood has stained your clothing you say your clothes have become impure. How can the thought of those who eat meat, drink blood and suck bones become pure?"
Akaal Takht Sahib sets panthic maryada. a core basis. now Rehat is given more stricter or less by different jatha bandis. but they all still have the same core.
People always will put different views and opinions and change thing to what they believe... the amount of fractions in islam would probably go over the amount in sikhi 10 fold atleast.
The fact is, akaal takht sahib is the core, and the whole sikh panth has the same core maryada!
Re: do you think i should?
As far as i know, there are two words, in Urdu/Hindi at least. One in Dawaa or Dawah and the other one is Duya. Duya is to pray, whereas Dawaa or Dawah is medicine.
I, as being a humanitarian, could never be convinced by someone whose faith has a law to kill someone if they convert to another religion and go public as it's inhumane. Even most people in today's civilized society agree that it's inhumane.
Dawah and converting people to Islam are two different things.
Though, to answer your question, christians or any other members of other religious faiths are welcome to enter the masjid and do their equivalent of dawah.
Very few people would enter a mosque/temple/church to actually convert someone to another faith seeing as they'd probably get laughed at.
Through the means of intellectual dialogue, it is possible however, to convert someone, provided of course that person wants to, within themselves (this is the key point), convert.
As far as death penalties for apostates, an entire thread has been dedicated to it. Though, for those who are lazy and want to be spoon fed: the death penalty for apostacy (leaving Islam for another faith) is only done in times of war. For clarification on this, please read the thread dedicated to apostacy in Islam.
As far as i know, there are two words, in Urdu/Hindi at least. One in Dawaa or Dawah and the other one is Duya. Duya is to pray, whereas Dawaa or Dawah is medicine.
I, as being a humanitarian, could never be convinced by someone whose faith has a law to kill someone if they convert to another religion and go public as it's inhumane. Even most people in today's civilized society agree that it's inhumane.
Re: do you think i should?
He is trying to be today's Aurangzeb. if you read Sikh History, you will know how Aurangzeb forcefully converted Hindus to Islam.
He is trying to be today's Aurangzeb. if you read Sikh History, you will know how Aurangzeb forcefully converted Hindus to Islam.
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Re: do you think i should?
Hi PCJS.
Did you know that the punishment for commiting treason against the US is death? The punishment of someone who leaves islaam is also death, because this person broke off their part of the treaty with God after accepting it. And this punishment can be applied in an islamic state only.
So anyway, what's more important - for a person to be killed just because they went against the place they live in? Or because they gave up their covenant with God?
Alot of people who were enemies of islaam would actually pretend to become muslim one day and leave the next day pretending that it's a bad way of life, and that they don't agree with it. Purposelly trying to put others off islaam too.
If it's inhumane for this ruling to be applied, then we can say that the 'superpower' of today has inhumane laws too.
Regards.
Hi PCJS.
Did you know that the punishment for commiting treason against the US is death? The punishment of someone who leaves islaam is also death, because this person broke off their part of the treaty with God after accepting it. And this punishment can be applied in an islamic state only.
So anyway, what's more important - for a person to be killed just because they went against the place they live in? Or because they gave up their covenant with God?
Alot of people who were enemies of islaam would actually pretend to become muslim one day and leave the next day pretending that it's a bad way of life, and that they don't agree with it. Purposelly trying to put others off islaam too.
If it's inhumane for this ruling to be applied, then we can say that the 'superpower' of today has inhumane laws too.
Regards.
Woodrow
May Allah have mercy on him رحمة الله عليه
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Re: do you think i should?
One problem I find with trying to give Da'wah by refuting a flaw, is that if I was never a member and lived that religion as the adherents of it do, it is difficult for me to establish credability for the refutation.
Refutations of Sikhism would be effective and plausable if they come from a person who once was a Sikh and reverted. However, for a person who never was a Sikh in order to be effective with refutations they would need to know all aspects of Sikhism, to be certain they can they can show themselves as being fully knowledgable of Sikh beliefs and practices. One small error or misunderstanding can reduce the best refutation to nonsense.
Each of us has different abilities when it comes to giving Da'wah. we need to exam our selves and see what tools and gifts we were given and what is the best way to use them.
For myself the path I would choose would be to concentrate on why a person should be Muslim, not on why they should not be what they are.
What works for me may not work for you. What works for you may not work for me.
I admire your courage and desire to use this as a path for Da'wah. May you be fully knowledgable of your gifts and talents and use them in the most effective manner possible.
One problem I find with trying to give Da'wah by refuting a flaw, is that if I was never a member and lived that religion as the adherents of it do, it is difficult for me to establish credability for the refutation.
Refutations of Sikhism would be effective and plausable if they come from a person who once was a Sikh and reverted. However, for a person who never was a Sikh in order to be effective with refutations they would need to know all aspects of Sikhism, to be certain they can they can show themselves as being fully knowledgable of Sikh beliefs and practices. One small error or misunderstanding can reduce the best refutation to nonsense.
Each of us has different abilities when it comes to giving Da'wah. we need to exam our selves and see what tools and gifts we were given and what is the best way to use them.
For myself the path I would choose would be to concentrate on why a person should be Muslim, not on why they should not be what they are.
What works for me may not work for you. What works for you may not work for me.
I admire your courage and desire to use this as a path for Da'wah. May you be fully knowledgable of your gifts and talents and use them in the most effective manner possible.
Re: do you think i should?
What's legal isn't necessarily moral. But you can't expect an immoral act from a religion.
You and I don't decide what God's order. Since everything that happens is in God's order, when someone converts from one religion to another, it's also God's order. We can't say whether or not someone made the right decision by converting unless we "prove" our direct two-way communication with God.
Religion is usually a bunch of beliefs put together, not necessarily facts. There is nothing for sure you can say based upon simple belief as in religion unlike science, a belief can't be proven.
There were religions before Islam and there were religions after Islam. So, you can't say that someone is leaving God by leaving Islam.
What's legal isn't necessarily moral. But you can't expect an immoral act from a religion.
You and I don't decide what God's order. Since everything that happens is in God's order, when someone converts from one religion to another, it's also God's order. We can't say whether or not someone made the right decision by converting unless we "prove" our direct two-way communication with God.
Religion is usually a bunch of beliefs put together, not necessarily facts. There is nothing for sure you can say based upon simple belief as in religion unlike science, a belief can't be proven.
There were religions before Islam and there were religions after Islam. So, you can't say that someone is leaving God by leaving Islam.
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Re: do you think i should?
A person is misguided due to sinning, many times Allaah has mentioned that He has misguided a people due to what they did with their own hands. We are all born on fitrah [natural inclination to do good, believe in One God etc.] but our fitrah is altered by the society, people around us, and also our own actions.
Religion isn't just belief's put together, rather its facts and beliefs which is what makes a person gain true faith. So God gives us His signs, we reflect upon them and the conclusion is a stronger belief/faith so long as the person isn't stubborn and arrogant to open his/her eyes to what is coming to them.
Just to clarify, islaam [which literally means submission towards the Creator] was the religion revealed to Adam, and all the prophets who came after him. Including Nuh (Noah), Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon all the prophets. More than 124,000 prophets have come to mankind to call to the worship of God Almighty Alone, without associating no partners to Him. These messengers came with clear signs which no-one could replicate except a prophet, not even sorcerers.
All the prophets called to the worship of Allaah Alone, to worship Him sincerely, to establish the prayer, to pay the zakaah to the needy, to keep the ties of kinship, to treat the orphan well and to do good. This was the religion of all the prophets, to be dutiful to Allaah sincerely.
Those who did good to gain Allaah's Mercy and believed in His messengers - for them, Allaah will reward them with all that they desire in the hereafter and more. Those that turn away from Allaah, His messengers, and His signs will be punished severely for taking Allaah's message in jest, saying that its 'stories of old.'
We all will die, and it is our responsibility to accept the truth when it comes to us. Allaah will bring us back to life, the same way He brings the dead plants back to life by sending down rain. To Him we will return and be judged on all that we did.
And Allaah is the Source of Strength.
Peace.
A person is misguided due to sinning, many times Allaah has mentioned that He has misguided a people due to what they did with their own hands. We are all born on fitrah [natural inclination to do good, believe in One God etc.] but our fitrah is altered by the society, people around us, and also our own actions.
Religion isn't just belief's put together, rather its facts and beliefs which is what makes a person gain true faith. So God gives us His signs, we reflect upon them and the conclusion is a stronger belief/faith so long as the person isn't stubborn and arrogant to open his/her eyes to what is coming to them.
Just to clarify, islaam [which literally means submission towards the Creator] was the religion revealed to Adam, and all the prophets who came after him. Including Nuh (Noah), Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon all the prophets. More than 124,000 prophets have come to mankind to call to the worship of God Almighty Alone, without associating no partners to Him. These messengers came with clear signs which no-one could replicate except a prophet, not even sorcerers.
All the prophets called to the worship of Allaah Alone, to worship Him sincerely, to establish the prayer, to pay the zakaah to the needy, to keep the ties of kinship, to treat the orphan well and to do good. This was the religion of all the prophets, to be dutiful to Allaah sincerely.
Those who did good to gain Allaah's Mercy and believed in His messengers - for them, Allaah will reward them with all that they desire in the hereafter and more. Those that turn away from Allaah, His messengers, and His signs will be punished severely for taking Allaah's message in jest, saying that its 'stories of old.'
We all will die, and it is our responsibility to accept the truth when it comes to us. Allaah will bring us back to life, the same way He brings the dead plants back to life by sending down rain. To Him we will return and be judged on all that we did.
And Allaah is the Source of Strength.
Peace.
Re: do you think i should?
A simple question.
Did Jesus say that someone be killed if they left Christianity? Does Hinduism say that someone be killed if they didn't believe in Hinduism?
These religions existed before Islam. Since you believe Jesus was a prophet but God didn't tell him that someone be killed if they didn't believe in religion, then come he said that to Mohammad? Or is it simply a Muslim belief that it's OK to kill someone if they leave Islam?
Anyways, it's inhumane and in no way, I could have respect for someone someone who believes so.
A simple question.
Did Jesus say that someone be killed if they left Christianity? Does Hinduism say that someone be killed if they didn't believe in Hinduism?
These religions existed before Islam. Since you believe Jesus was a prophet but God didn't tell him that someone be killed if they didn't believe in religion, then come he said that to Mohammad? Or is it simply a Muslim belief that it's OK to kill someone if they leave Islam?
Anyways, it's inhumane and in no way, I could have respect for someone someone who believes so.
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Re: do you think i should?
I'm not really sure, what if they did but people altered the scripture? That's what we see alot today don't we? Where some people are alright with gay's being gays, even though in the christian sources themselves - the story of Prophet Lut [Lot] is mentioned, and he came to stop homosexuality because its immoral. So what's stopping me from believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) never asked people to do the same, and it got distorted?
What i'm trying to say is that because it seems inhumane to you, and the society around us - if the US which is the most 'modern', and 'protective over its people' - then why does that allow it? The times change and what may seem inhumane in one time will differ in another time, yet islaam is fixed so how can i give you an answer which has double standards in regard to the society we live in?
By the way, i never said that everyone is forced to follow islaam:
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]
But those who don't accept what Allaah has revealed to His prophets are liable to the punishment of Allaah in the hereafter.
I'm not really sure, what if they did but people altered the scripture? That's what we see alot today don't we? Where some people are alright with gay's being gays, even though in the christian sources themselves - the story of Prophet Lut [Lot] is mentioned, and he came to stop homosexuality because its immoral. So what's stopping me from believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) never asked people to do the same, and it got distorted?
What i'm trying to say is that because it seems inhumane to you, and the society around us - if the US which is the most 'modern', and 'protective over its people' - then why does that allow it? The times change and what may seem inhumane in one time will differ in another time, yet islaam is fixed so how can i give you an answer which has double standards in regard to the society we live in?
By the way, i never said that everyone is forced to follow islaam:
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]
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aamirsaab
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Re: do you think i should?
You misunderstand. The death penalty for apostacy only applies in times of war since this was a tactic used by certain enemies of Islam many moons ago (nowadays, we'd call them spies) i.e. they'd pretend to be muslim just to 'mingle with the muslims'.
You misunderstand. The death penalty for apostacy only applies in times of war since this was a tactic used by certain enemies of Islam many moons ago (nowadays, we'd call them spies) i.e. they'd pretend to be muslim just to 'mingle with the muslims'.
Re: do you think i should?
If you don't believe in Bible, why do you believe anything Christians say at all? Then why do you believe anything about Jesus at all?
The society today is becoming civilized. This is something Christianity and Sikhi seem to have in common - civilization.
So are you saying that Dawud_UK's statement was not correct when he said someone leaving Islam gets death as punishment?
If you don't believe in Bible, why do you believe anything Christians say at all? Then why do you believe anything about Jesus at all?
The society today is becoming civilized. This is something Christianity and Sikhi seem to have in common - civilization.
You misunderstand. The death penalty for apostacy only applies in times of war since this was a tactic used by certain enemies of Islam many moons ago (nowadays, we'd call them spies) i.e. they'd pretend to be muslim just to 'mingle with the muslims'.
So are you saying that Dawud_UK's statement was not correct when he said someone leaving Islam gets death as punishment?
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Re: do you think i should?
We believe the Injeel (gospel) revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him) was from God. Jesus son of Maryam was sent to the children of Isra'eel to guide them back to the worship of God like Moses (peace be upon him) had done.
Due to the fact that this message was corrupted by the people, God sent down the final revelation to Muhammad (peace be upon him) and this message would confirm all that came before it. So our criterion is the Qur'an.
If the Bible is upto modern day civilization, then how come the west doesn't run by that law? How come when islaam actually ran according to the Qur'an and Prophetic way it was at its strongest? Doesn't it seem obvious that the other ways of life are what actually bring down society, how the people of other scriptures may alter it or take it out of context to suit their needs? Yet islaam is fixed, firm and we follow it according to how the companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) understood it. 1400yrs ago wasn't too long ago in regard to rule etc. did you know that? The only real difference is in regard to technology etc. And this we can make innovations in.
So islaam really isn't old fashioned, rather as times change - the people may change. Which means they may say somethings really bad at one time, and say its really good another time. I.e. homosexuality which was looked down upon just a few decades ago in the west, yet today its promoted. You see the difference?
Islaam is fixed, it doesn't need to change because its a perfectly good way of keeping the good content, so that we can shun away evil.
Peace.
PCJS said:
We believe the Injeel (gospel) revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him) was from God. Jesus son of Maryam was sent to the children of Isra'eel to guide them back to the worship of God like Moses (peace be upon him) had done.
Due to the fact that this message was corrupted by the people, God sent down the final revelation to Muhammad (peace be upon him) and this message would confirm all that came before it. So our criterion is the Qur'an.
If the Bible is upto modern day civilization, then how come the west doesn't run by that law? How come when islaam actually ran according to the Qur'an and Prophetic way it was at its strongest? Doesn't it seem obvious that the other ways of life are what actually bring down society, how the people of other scriptures may alter it or take it out of context to suit their needs? Yet islaam is fixed, firm and we follow it according to how the companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) understood it. 1400yrs ago wasn't too long ago in regard to rule etc. did you know that? The only real difference is in regard to technology etc. And this we can make innovations in.
So islaam really isn't old fashioned, rather as times change - the people may change. Which means they may say somethings really bad at one time, and say its really good another time. I.e. homosexuality which was looked down upon just a few decades ago in the west, yet today its promoted. You see the difference?
Islaam is fixed, it doesn't need to change because its a perfectly good way of keeping the good content, so that we can shun away evil.
Peace.
Re: do you think i should?
Once again you simply believe certain stuff about Chrisitianity but you don't know for sure. Believing is not same as knowing for sure.
In a civilized society, you are free to do what you believe in as long as your actions don't negatively affect others. But it doesn't mean doing something immoral is part of civilization. However, intruding into someone else's personal life would be considered wrong.
I might consider homosexuality and premarital sex to be wrong but I do not somehow punish a homosexual person or someone who sexually active as this his/her personal life unless s/he somehow crosses my boundary.
Civilization is not about promoting something we consider immoral. Instead, giving people freedom to choose as long as it doesn't affect others.
It's because of civilization that you have been able to practice Islam in non-Islamic countries.
Yes there is a drawback of civilization and that is that people with hidden agendas lure innocent people into their trap. Some of them even use even religion.
Once again you simply believe certain stuff about Chrisitianity but you don't know for sure. Believing is not same as knowing for sure.
In a civilized society, you are free to do what you believe in as long as your actions don't negatively affect others. But it doesn't mean doing something immoral is part of civilization. However, intruding into someone else's personal life would be considered wrong.
I might consider homosexuality and premarital sex to be wrong but I do not somehow punish a homosexual person or someone who sexually active as this his/her personal life unless s/he somehow crosses my boundary.
Civilization is not about promoting something we consider immoral. Instead, giving people freedom to choose as long as it doesn't affect others.
It's because of civilization that you have been able to practice Islam in non-Islamic countries.
Yes there is a drawback of civilization and that is that people with hidden agendas lure innocent people into their trap. Some of them even use even religion.
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Re: do you think i should?
No society is civilized as of yet and not even close.
No society is civilized as of yet and not even close.
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Re: do you think i should?
The message of Jesus was kinda obvious because all the previous messengers bought the same message of calling to the worship of God. This is what all prophets called against, i.e. claiming that God has children, or that He has associates etc.
In civilized society, if you could do whatever you want then others may disagree with some aspects because it causes harm to the one who doesn't do anything.
For instance we've been seeing lately that teachers at school are teaching children that being homosexual is allowed. Now why does the school have a right to teach children that? What if the parent doesn't want this for their child? You might say that the kid should move schools, but isn't that showing how bad being promoted in society affects the ones who personally oppose it aswell?
In islaam we don't actually go spying on some guy or girl to see if their sinning. Rather we know that within the lifetime of the Messengers of Allaah, people did sin - but they did it within their own households or did it in secret. Yes they are sinning, and their keeping it between themselves and Allaah right? But if they sin publicly trying to promote that sin so others get affected, that can harm society can't it? People may say that because others are doing it, why shouldn't we do it aswell? This is when sins and corruption go rampant in society. And this is what islaam opposes, it isn't permissible in islaam to go upto a guy and sneak in his window to see if he's sinning or not, rather thats against islamic teachings. What is looked down upon is the fact that people do it in public which encourages others in society to do the same.
From the above examples we can say its true, it does harm the ones who stay quiet.
Yeah, i'm happy with that, praise be to Allaah. In islamic states the non muslims have the right to follow their religion and they can even establish their own religious courts, yet we still don't have that in the 'civilized' society we live in today.
In islaam we don't need to be sly, we should convey the message clearly like all the prophets did. We don't tell the person we'll pay you so much to become a muslim, but the person only accepts islaam because they realise its the truth. There is no compulsion in religion, but those who turn away from Allaah and His messenger arrogantly are liable to the punishment of Allaah in the hereafter. May Allaah protect us from that. ameen.
Peace.
The message of Jesus was kinda obvious because all the previous messengers bought the same message of calling to the worship of God. This is what all prophets called against, i.e. claiming that God has children, or that He has associates etc.
In civilized society, if you could do whatever you want then others may disagree with some aspects because it causes harm to the one who doesn't do anything.
For instance we've been seeing lately that teachers at school are teaching children that being homosexual is allowed. Now why does the school have a right to teach children that? What if the parent doesn't want this for their child? You might say that the kid should move schools, but isn't that showing how bad being promoted in society affects the ones who personally oppose it aswell?
In islaam we don't actually go spying on some guy or girl to see if their sinning. Rather we know that within the lifetime of the Messengers of Allaah, people did sin - but they did it within their own households or did it in secret. Yes they are sinning, and their keeping it between themselves and Allaah right? But if they sin publicly trying to promote that sin so others get affected, that can harm society can't it? People may say that because others are doing it, why shouldn't we do it aswell? This is when sins and corruption go rampant in society. And this is what islaam opposes, it isn't permissible in islaam to go upto a guy and sneak in his window to see if he's sinning or not, rather thats against islamic teachings. What is looked down upon is the fact that people do it in public which encourages others in society to do the same.
From the above examples we can say its true, it does harm the ones who stay quiet.
Yeah, i'm happy with that, praise be to Allaah.
In islamic states the non muslims have the right to follow their religion and they can even establish their own religious courts, yet we still don't have that in the 'civilized' society we live in today.In islaam we don't need to be sly, we should convey the message clearly like all the prophets did. We don't tell the person we'll pay you so much to become a muslim, but the person only accepts islaam because they realise its the truth. There is no compulsion in religion, but those who turn away from Allaah and His messenger arrogantly are liable to the punishment of Allaah in the hereafter. May Allaah protect us from that. ameen.
Peace.
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aamirsaab
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Re: do you think i should?
The mods have been lenient with this thread so far, but I doubt it will continue. Now let's get back on topic.
(for your other queries, please either make a new thread about it, or search for an existing one and carry it on there)
Yes and no. Look, there is an entire thread dedicated to it with full explanation here.
The mods have been lenient with this thread so far, but I doubt it will continue. Now let's get back on topic.
(for your other queries, please either make a new thread about it, or search for an existing one and carry it on there)
snakelegs
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Re: Guru Granth Sahib?
just a general question.
if you find something that you think is a "flaw" in another religion's holy book - how would you know whether it's really a flaw, an error in translation, or simply something that you don't understand?
just a general question.
if you find something that you think is a "flaw" in another religion's holy book - how would you know whether it's really a flaw, an error in translation, or simply something that you don't understand?