Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

Re: do you think i should?

Fi_Sabilillah,

People have equal rights to live as they wish, as equal as you. In Public schools, usually there is parents consent needed to teach kids about religion and sexuality. But if you don't like what teacher teach in Public schools, all you really have to do is to send your kids in a school where they teach what you like. There is no justification for killing someone just because they went against what you believe.
 
Re: Guru Granth Sahib?

just a general question.
if you find something that you think is a "flaw" in another religion's holy book - how would you know whether it's really a flaw, an error in translation, or simply something that you don't understand?

Nobody can say for sure. So, it simply makes sense not to have blind faith and believe what makese the most sense...
 
Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Muslims have people who disregard the Hadiths, and say the Quran Shareef is not complete THIS IS BY MUSLIMS THEMSELVES

Wrong. A person who considers the Quran to be incomplete is not a Muslim, no matter how much he insists he is.

Therefore no Muslim can ever say that the Quran in incomplete.

Also, only the ignorant people disregard hadiths, there is no person with strong Islamic knowledge and understanding of the hadith science who disregards hadith.

So your claim is baseless.:shade:
 
Re: do you think i should?

Fi_Sabilillah,

People have equal rights to live as they wish, as equal as you. In Public schools, usually there is parents consent needed to teach kids about religion and sexuality. But if you don't like what teacher teach in Public schools, all you really have to do is to send your kids in a school where they teach what you like.


That's exactly what i'm trying to say, why should i have to send a child to another school if someone else is spoiling this for me? This person who's going against morals is affecting our lives. Should I have to change my life in order to go against morals? Or does the one who goes against morals have the right to affect my 'children'? Because that's what their doing, their forcing the children to believe what they believe.


How can we measure morals if the media decides what morals are? Within one generation things can change so much where 20yrs ago it's wrong and looked down upon? Shouldn't civilization be firm/fixed so something which was immoral 20yrs ago remains that way? Mankind is the same and being homosexual in one time is the same as in another time-frame.


There is no justification for killing someone just because they went against what you believe.

Then how come that's the punishment for treason? The person commits treason because they don't agree with the policy of the state.
 
Re: do you think i should?

Assalaamu Alaykum,

i am shortly to be moving to Leicester which has a large sikh population so have begun to examine their faith so i can give them dawah insha'allah.

i believe i have found several obvious flaws that i could use to show their religion as being false and as long as my own faith is strong enough so i am not in danger do you think it would be allowable to visit the sikh temple to call them towards islam?

i understand the sikhs keep a communial kitchen that only serves vegetarian food, these communial meals are supposed to be open to all of every faith. is it allowable for me to attend this and eat with them for the purposes of calling them towards islam?

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

first get more knowledge on islaam
second study comparatives of religion and be knowledgeable how to make
dawah
third never insult the religion of anyone
 
Re: do you think i should?

Assalaamu Alaykum,

i am shortly to be moving to Leicester which has a large sikh population so have begun to examine their faith so i can give them dawah insha'allah.

i believe i have found several obvious flaws that i could use to show their religion as being false and as long as my own faith is strong enough so i am not in danger do you think it would be allowable to visit the sikh temple to call them towards islam?

i understand the sikhs keep a communial kitchen that only serves vegetarian food, these communial meals are supposed to be open to all of every faith. is it allowable for me to attend this and eat with them for the purposes of calling them towards islam?

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

make dua to Allahu AZZA WA Jall to send the easiest one to u . pse do not visit their temple know your place well ,know the way the people are ,then do your dawah and always ask allah to guide u how to the job
 
Re: do you think i should?

Hi PCJS.


Did you know that the punishment for commiting treason against the US is death? The punishment of someone who leaves islaam is also death, because this person broke off their part of the treaty with God after accepting it. And this punishment can be applied in an islamic state only.

So anyway, what's more important - for a person to be killed just because they went against the place they live in? Or because they gave up their covenant with God?


Alot of people who were enemies of islaam would actually pretend to become muslim one day and leave the next day pretending that it's a bad way of life, and that they don't agree with it. Purposelly trying to put others off islaam too.


If it's inhumane for this ruling to be applied, then we can say that the 'superpower' of today has inhumane laws too. :)



Regards.

My comment is off topic, but it seems that perhaps we are already off topic a little bit. As to the conclusion above:
"If it's inhumane for this ruling to be applied, then we can say that the 'superpower' of today has inhumane laws too." :)

I would say right on both counts. Both applications are indeed inhumane.
 
Re: do you think i should?

That's exactly what i'm trying to say, why should i have to send a child to another school if someone else is spoiling this for me? This person who's going against morals is affecting our lives. Should I have to change my life in order to go against morals? Or does the one who goes against morals have the right to affect my 'children'? Because that's what their doing, their forcing the children to believe what they believe.

There is always going to be some interaction when you live among general public. When we immigrate to the West, we are well aware of the fact, there are lot of stuff in the West we don't want our future generations to learn. So we have a choice. We can either accept this fact and decide to immigrate to the West or we can simply stay in the country of our origin. You could also decide to immigrate to the West and send your kids to the private school or you could simply send your kids to the public schools and instruct the teachers not to teach your kids anything about religion and sexuality. But in no way, you have right to harm others just because you wanna move here.

How can we measure morals if the media decides what morals are? Within one generation things can change so much where 20yrs ago it's wrong and looked down upon? Shouldn't civilization be firm/fixed so something which was immoral 20yrs ago remains that way? Mankind is the same and being homosexual in one time is the same as in another time-frame.

No, civilization never changed but we are simply realizing it with time. Being firm is not necessarily ethical. Homosexuality is someone's personal issue. People just weren't civilized enough in past to realize that they should respect people's personal issues.


Then how come that's the punishment for treason? The person commits treason because they don't agree with the policy of the state.

Like I have said before, what's legal isn't always moral but a religion is expected to be moral. Killing or harming someone for going against your beliefs is the most immoral act I can think of.
 
Re: do you think i should?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jo Ke Fateh (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)

Greetings once again brother Dawaud!

Yes the Langaar hall is open to all. It was the reason Guru Nanak Dev Ji established it. During the periods of tyranny, Guru Nanak was instructed by God to unite people as he desired. This instruction was given to previous Prophets but they failed.

Only vegetarian food is served because muslims cannot eat harram, and hindus can not eat beef. and jews don't eat pork either like yourselves. So go, please and enjoy the Langar (free kitched open to all, and i've seen many caucasians enjoying a hot meal at the Gurdwara too)

In the Golden Temple in Amritsar Akhbar the Great wanted to meet the Guru, he was told to do Pangat - Eat in the Free kitchen by sitting amongst the poor and rich. He did so, because he wanted to meet the Guru Sahib!

Now, you'll be welcomed with love. And try if you want to spread your message, but you'll fail. Those who are learned in Sikhi, will never reject Sikhi. - You do what you feel is right. I know the more you delve into the Guru Granth Sahibs teachings, the more you'll notice the verses gripping at your heartstrings, because there is nothing more powewrful than the Word of God, which is containeed in the Shri Guru Granth Sahib. - Also as I mentioned before, the Sikh place of worship is a GURDWARA, and not a temple.

Kind Regards. Gur Fateh (Gurus Victory)
 
Re: do you think i should?

:sl:
Last time I'm going to say this PCJS. I've given you 2 posts worth of explanation and a link to a thread completely dedicated to the subject. Please feel free to use it and/or take the convo to that respective thread.

All other posts after this one that are relating to apostacy or any other off-topic stuff, will be deleted and warnings will be issued.
 
Re: do you think i should?

The question before us is what should Dawud_UK do with respect to eating in the temple with the Sikhs and trying to show them their religion as being false.

Well, as far as it is being allowable in Islam. It appears that this question has been answered very early in the discussion. Nothing wrong with going to the communial meal as long as what one eats is halal.

As to showing another group that their religion is "wrong", surely this is something that all religions who believe they have the truth, that what others have is in error, and the difference has eternal consequences would do. Doing so is actually an act of love.

But, of course the manner of doing so needs to be done in a loving way as well. Hence, I think that PCJS's initial question (not subsequent comments) have value.

Let me ask you this? What should happen to a Christian who goes to a Mosque and tries to convert people?

there is a christian, he is actually a deacon (like a junior manager in the church of england) who visits our local mosque.

he has fully learnt the prayers in arabic, prays in line with us, fasts with us, breaks his fast with us and has now started calling himself a christian AND a muslim and goes to palestine on peace missions.

so really it has worked the other way, he is coming to islam not us coming towards christianity.

But i get what you are trying to say,

Abu Abdullah


I am a Christian. Part of my family is Muslim. I have been invited with them to attend a banquent of the Sugar Festival following Ramadan. How do you think it would have been received if I had attended that event for the purpose of showing, as you said Dawud in your intial post, "the several obvious flaws that ... their religion [is] false?" Even though we are family, I think they might have rightfully thrown me out on my ear.

Of course I attended but made no such comments. What I did was go and try to learn and understand more. Dawud, you could do the same. That doesn't mean that if someone asks you about your faith that you shouldn't be prepared to give an answer for it. But, I think you may have a greater impact for your faith more out the relationships you build, than your expertise as an apologist for the cause. Does not Muhammad (pbuh) counsel using wisdom in cases like this. The belief that I can, in my own superiority of intellect and reason, convince anyone to change their faith simply by challenging them with the obvious errors of their own faith, seems to me to smack of a degree of arrogance that borders on the sin of pride.

Note the pattern of the Christian deacon you lifted up as an example. He took time to learn the prayers, to pray in line with you, to fast with you. He did not come to tell you what was wrong with Islam. He came to participate along side you and you received him warmly. Imagine if he had come the other way, what type of reception would he have gotten then? You would have been kind at first, but in the end you would not have tolerated his demeaning of Islam. Nor should you in your holy places. I think it is a good model for you as well.

Be confident. Be self-assured. But also be humble. Remember, Allah could in an instant change all people on earth to Muslims if he so desired. Yet, these Sikhs are Sikhs and not Muslims. You may be Allah's instrument in this place for bringing them to Islam, but let it be Allah's work through you and not you forcing it upon them.
 
Re: do you think i should?

i really don't think anyone wants to hear that their religion is false or flawed.
would a muslim feel any differently?
 
Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Aman, something you would never understand...

A Sikh is supposed to use all peaceful means unless these peaceful means fail defending rightousness and that's what Guru Gobind Singh Ji said to Aurungzeb.

Gurus have written Shabads based upon situations. Sikhi isn't about following something blindly. You don't know what kind of situations guruji was referring to when he wrote the shabad you are using to say that Guru Nanak Dev encouraged eating meat.

My assumption is that he was talking about those people who don't eat meat because they think flesh makes them not so sacred. So, he is simply saying that you should not reject meat just because you feel it's not sacred. It doesn't mean that he was encouraging people to eat meat.
 
Re: do you think i should?

Assalaamu Alaykum,

i am shortly to be moving to Leicester which has a large sikh population so have begun to examine their faith so i can give them dawah insha'allah.

First of all, you have to notice if they are interested at all at learning and if they are openminded about religious discussion.
i believe i have found several obvious flaws that i could use to show their religion as being false

I dont suggest you attack their religion, they will turn defensive and might even be drawn away from Islam. I would be really offended if someone came to me and told me to convert because my religion has flaws and his/her religion does not.

do you think it would be allowable to visit the sikh temple to call them towards islam?

As someone posted earlier, would you convert to christianity if someone came to your local mosque and started preaching against your religion?


At the end, I beleive that people who are interested in learning about Islam will eventually learn about it.

One last note, this is a forum, we all give opinions, it is up to you to analzye them and act according to your own decisions.




Stop the Offtopic posting!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: do you think i should?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jo Ke Fateh (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)

Greetings once again brother Dawaud!

Yes the Langaar hall is open to all. It was the reason Guru Nanak Dev Ji established it. During the periods of tyranny, Guru Nanak was instructed by God to unite people as he desired. This instruction was given to previous Prophets but they failed.

Only vegetarian food is served because muslims cannot eat harram, and hindus can not eat beef. and jews don't eat pork either like yourselves. So go, please and enjoy the Langar (free kitched open to all, and i've seen many caucasians enjoying a hot meal at the Gurdwara too)

In the Golden Temple in Amritsar Akhbar the Great wanted to meet the Guru, he was told to do Pangat - Eat in the Free kitchen by sitting amongst the poor and rich. He did so, because he wanted to meet the Guru Sahib!

Now, you'll be welcomed with love. And try if you want to spread your message, but you'll fail. Those who are learned in Sikhi, will never reject Sikhi. - You do what you feel is right. I know the more you delve into the Guru Granth Sahibs teachings, the more you'll notice the verses gripping at your heartstrings, because there is nothing more powewrful than the Word of God, which is containeed in the Shri Guru Granth Sahib. - Also as I mentioned before, the Sikh place of worship is a GURDWARA, and not a temple.

Kind Regards. Gur Fateh (Gurus Victory)

sorry about the temple thing again, i wrote this thread before you told me off last time, be sure no new thread i start on sikhism or reply will use the word temple when referring to a Gurdwara.

now a lot of people have made a lot of statements regarding what i have said, including that i wish to forcibly convert people, lol where did i say that?

will be honest with you though, the more i read the Guru Ganth Sahib the more i find it full of contradictions and flaws but like i keep saying i am not going into those until i have read through it all.

the problem is i go offline for several months in only a few days, so i best get busy or put this project on a backburner until i return.

as for those who say i shouldnt go and discuss with them, didnt the prophet Muhammad saws go to the places of worship of others and tell them about islam and call them towards it?

i agree, that guidence belongs only to Allah but we have to duty to the tell people the message and that is all i will do. it is upto Allah whether they accept it.

Abu Abdullah
 
Re: do you think i should?

Go dawaud, just as Guru Nanak Dev went into Mecca to preach Sikhi and many converted, you go to the Gurdwara and see how Sikhs will treat you with respect regardless of what your intentions are.

As for killing people, well only the foolish would resort to killing a person who rejects a religion.
 
Re: do you think i should?

..... Guru Nanak Dev went into Mecca to preach Sikhi and many converted, .

Salaam/peace;


---I read elsewhere that he visited Holy Kaaba. It seems impossible as only Muslims are allowed to enter the holy mosque. Can u describe the matter ,pl ? Thanks

Pl. dont' just say that Kaaba came to him ....i was told that in other forum....show some proof
 
Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

OK brother. You chose a religion you feel comfortable with. That's great. Your post have not been anti -sikh so I hope they will remain this way. Guru Nanak had two companions, one was Mardana one wsa Bala a hindu and muslim. They continued on their path and were tolerant of what Guru Shaib was saying. Let us remain like this. We stick to what we find peace with. You the Quran, me the Shri Guru Granth Sahib. All is in the Will of Allah 'Hukmai Ander Sab Koi!'
 
Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Aman,

We monas get that all the times from Amritdharis. But you have to know the real Sikhi rather than just feeling unwelcomed due to some people's attitude towards you. You have to understand what Gurus stood for and not what some of the individuals stand for today. Sikhi is what gurus stood for and not some of the fanatics stand for today.

Since you have accepted Islam, please tell us whether or not you agree with killing someone who converts from Islam and then goes public.

I hope you didn't convert, if this is true, just because you felt rejected by some of the Sikhs. Most of the Sikhs today are not true Sikhs. So, it wouldn't matter to me what they think.
 
Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Snakelegs Shieck Farid ji was a muslim just as Bhagat Kabeer ji was. He was raised by a muslim, And so was Bhagat Baini and some more which I can't recall the moment. - Bhagat means holy man. Not a hindu as aman said.[/B]

yes, this is what i thought. bulleh shah was another muslim whose writings are in the SGGS. i hadn't heard of bhagat baini before.
i think it's cool - and pretty unique - that sikhs have writings from people of other religions in their holy book.
 

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