Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

[DAWUD_adnan]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

1 - anDhaa kachaa kach nikach. ||1|| rahaa-o.



2 - mannai mag na chalai panth.

the faithful do not follow empty religious rituals

Which is why we muslims follow a true miracle the Quran ( recitation), the Criterion, the Quran is the ONLY book in the World which Claims to be the Word of God and it has never been disaproved many have tried ALL have failed, the Quran actually challenges mankind saying to make just one verse like it in its elequence, strenght and beauty, and until 1428 NO ONE NONE, and that is why the Prophet did not write it down him self, becuase he could neither read nor write, another sign because how could an illiterate ever produce a Quran (recitation) like this? no one has ever been able to do it even the most eloquent arabs ,its says:

1. it will remain the same FOREVER, it still is, if i go to china there and see a muslim chinese brother he will say the same as that which i have said, and if i were to go 500 years back to the past it would still be the same, please listen it is for your own good.


this is the definition of Eloquent:-Eloquent suggests clarity and power: an eloquent plea for disarmament. Fluent, with a root sense of flowing, refers to easy, smooth, facile speech
-having or exercising the power of fluent, forceful, and appropriate speech: an eloquent orator... wouldnt it be for God to be the Best?

2. it is Divine, it calms the heart, none can produce something like it, its eloquence, please try and when you have produced some thing like it HOlla BAck ! ( YOU WIL NEVER BE ABLE) would it not be for God to produce a book which is and cannot be replicated and is literally divine in its eloquence.
meanwhile you follow something made by a man how long ago? 300? nothing in its eloquence and truly misguiding, the world knows the Quran is and has been the same forever and it also knows that there has never been a Book so eloquent
4. ''Meaningless rituals such as going hajj, bathing in the ganges because this apparently 'cleanses the soul''' ...

I thought you were supposed to be peacefull, do you want to talk about meaninglessness? what about the hair, you let it grow and say that God would not have given it to you if He wanted it to be cut off, okay is that true? then why did God give you nails if He did not want it to be cut? why do you cut your nails?

5.
''If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?''

man, wouldnt it be respectfull to at least wash yourself before begging God for Mercy...

i leave with this : [59:22] He is the One GOD; there is no other god beside Him. Knower of all secrets and declarations. He is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[59:23] He is Allah; there is no other god beside Him. The King, the Most Sacred, the Peace, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified. GOD be glorified; far above having partners.

[59:24] He is the Allah; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful names. Glorifying Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.

say what ever you want> we will see on The Day Of Judgment which of us is right and which one is astray..
may Allah (The One and Only True God in arabic) forgive you ..

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: do you think i should?

That's all I was saying. Glad you understood.

Yes, that is strange. Has he always said that, or only after attending the mosque for a period of time?

well i understand he has been doing dialogue events with muslims for a number of years and even been with peace campaigners to palestine but since he has been attending the mosque regular he has started to say he is a muslim also and prays five times a day in the mosque as well as going to church.

Abu Abdullah

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

1 - anDhaa kachaa kach nikach. ||1|| rahaa-o.

If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?

2 - mannai mag na chalai panth.

The faithful do not follow empty religious rituals.


3 - manmukh karam kamaavnay ji-o dohaagan tan seegaar.
The self-willed manmukh performs religious rituals, like the unwanted bride decorating her body.

Meaningless rituals such as going hajj, bathing in the ganges because this apparently 'cleanses the soul'

but you believe your meditations cleanse your soul do you not?

both are rituals. i agree ritual without understanding or knowing the meaning doesnt make much sense but any ritual can become such.

however ritual taking into consideration its reasons and used as a means of seeking nearness to God by following his commands and submitting yourself to his will is certainly not worthless.

but thanks for the clarifications that sikhs are against blind ritual and not ritual full stop.

Abu Abdullah

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

You keep saying the same thing Dawaud. Blind rituals are of no use. - Going to places of pilgrimage and claim they cleanse the soul are useless. This is what our scriptures state. This does not mean we are told not to clean before we pray. You seem to have taken grasp of one word and taken flight.

 

[DAWUD_adnan]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

cant you read? i told you that you are following blindly i gave you a great explanation of our miracle ( Quran) i told you Unless you find someone who can replicate the Quran in both its eloquence and beauty, dont say nothing. convince me if you can, otherwise..

and I was not the one saying that you dont bath it was your guru, i Qoute;
''Meaningless rituals such as going hajj, BATHING in the ganges because this apparently 'cleanses the soul'

so you have just dissapproved your guru....

IF IM NOT MISTAKEN BATHING MEANS BATHING UNLESS YOU SPECIFY OTHERWISE i told you alreAdy we shall see on the Day of judgment.. peace
,...

 

[DAWUD_adnan]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

it has been said that sikhism is a copycat of islam want to know why?

"In times of trouble, God is remembered by all But none remembers Him during peace and happiness. If God is remembered in good times of happiness Why should trouble occur?"

Compare this with the following verse of the Qur’an: "When some trouble toucheth man, He crieth unto his Lord, Turning to Him in repentance: But when He bestoweth A favour upon him As from Himself, (Man) doth forget what he cried And prayed for before, And he doth set up Rivals unto Allah." [Al-Qur’an 39:8]

coincidence? i think not!

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

You keep saying the same thing Dawaud. Blind rituals are of no use. - Going to places of pilgrimage and claim they cleanse the soul are useless. This is what our scriptures state. This does not mean we are told not to clean before we pray. You seem to have taken grasp of one word and taken flight.

but yet people can go on hajj and gain no benefit from it!

it is a means of seeking nearness to God, not the act itself that is purifying but putting yourself into a state of total submission to God through such acts and i assume you would say the same about your own rituals.

i thought sikhs also visit the golden Gurdwarra in india?

if the intention is not correct then actions can be worthless, as can be acts not carried out in the correct manner, as can be acts that are not carried out in a state of physical purity as you aknowledge yourself.

so to say such rituals as hajj are blind ritual is not correct, it is an act carried out with good intention and showing a state of submission to God. not blind at all.

hope you understand where i am coming from here but i am glad you have confirmed that ritual is part of sikhi but it is blind ritual we can come together and condemn.

Abu Abdullah

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

but yet people can go on hajj and gain no benefit from it!

it is a means of seeking nearness to God, not the act itself that is purifying but putting yourself into a state of total submission to God through such acts and i assume you would say the same about your own rituals.

i thought sikhs also visit the golden Gurdwarra in india?

if the intention is not correct then actions can be worthless, as can be acts not carried out in the correct manner, as can be acts that are not carried out in a state of physical purity as you aknowledge yourself.

so to say such rituals as hajj are blind ritual is not correct, it is an act carried out with good intention and showing a state of submission to God. not blind at all.

hope you understand where i am coming from here but i am glad you have confirmed that ritual is part of sikhi but it is blind ritual we can come together and condemn.

Abu Abdullah

Going to the Golden Temple is NOT essentail. Going Hajj is, correct?

A Sikh is taught only the worship of God done via reciting prayers and such can bring you closer to God. Yet, our actions draw us even closer. Charity, and love for humankind is essential. Not mere reciting of prayers.

Dawaud, I must say I'm glad to be iin a discussion with you, you have respect and I like the way you put your point across.

Gur Fateh

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Going to the Golden Temple is NOT essentail. Going Hajj is, correct?

A Sikh is taught only the worship of God done via reciting prayers and such can bring you closer to God. Yet, our actions draw us even closer. Charity, and love for humankind is essential. Not mere reciting of prayers.

Dawaud, I must say I'm glad to be iin a discussion with you, you have respect and I like the way you put your point across.

Gur Fateh

respect for the others position is the first thing we should have in dialogue, this means we have to try to see things from their position and understand their point of view even when we dont agree with it.

the difference we have here is that you see hajj as a blind ritual, yet i believe it to be a beautiful act of worship that leads someone on a spiritual as well as a physical journey and this leads them into God's good books, not the actual physical act of going there.

i have heard many lectures from various imams and scholars on this issue, indeed my local imam near where i live now in sheffield does a simular talk every year to the hajjis, those going on hajj. that they need to learn the reasons for their journey, purify their intention etc etc not just let it be a blind ritual.

if someone performed such an act just because it was expected of them, i,e a blind ritualistic way then as such it would be show off, this is minor shirk because you are doing an act not for God or not purely for God but for the sake of human pleasure and to get them to say good of you.

now i could see how a sikh going to the Golden Gurdwara could believe the same, i would disagree with him and say his mission was false as despite his good intentions he was on a false path and that the true path is islam but i would understand his reasoning for such a pilgrimage.

simularly though, a sikh could also perform such blind rituals in your own faith's rituals if he / she allowed their intention or concentration to slip totally,

this is not a failing particular to islam and singling out Allah / God totally for worship is not an attribute particular to sikhi.

Abu Abdullah

 

[One Man Army]

look at the question mark and look at my question .

"Tell me isn't it true, many people believe dasam granth and guru granth sahib's bhog can take place at the same spot?"This is what I asked you.

I am not talking about respecting, but giving the equal honor as the SGGS in a same deewan where a bhog can tak place. A bhog of Dasam granth takes place and recently there was bhog by taksal and nihang singhs. So yeah...

why cant it? like i said, dasam granth is Guru Gobind Singh jees bani! the only difference is, i have answered your question.
gurbani is the Guru!
Dasam Granth is just a different type of scripture, more for warfare and exceptional power for times of battle. whats wrong with doing an akhand paath of dasam granth? the bani is the guru! and that is Guru Gobind Singh jees bani!

So not even one point is true?everything is false?

"Show me a person who refutes the SGGS is not the only holy book?"
Not just one person more than, maybe in thousands, what baout the followers of fake baba Paniarawala who arote his own granth and said SGGS is fake and his followers. (NOTE:Its Paniarawala not Sant Bhindranwale, just to make sure)

well how can they be classed as sikhs!!! a sikh is one who follows Guru Granth Sahib jee. a GURSIKH! a sikh of the Guru! not a sikh of some fake paniarawala idiot. if i write a book now, and start preaching it, does it make my followers sikhs??

THE MEAT ISSUE

HAD TO MAKE A SPECIAL REPLY.

1. Those mortals who consume marijuana, flesh and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (SGGS p1337)

As a true Vaisnavite Kabir remained a strict vegetarian. Kabir far from defying Brahmanical tradition as to the eating of meat, would not permit so much, as the plucking of a flower (G.G.S. pg 479), whereas Nanak deemed all such scruples to be superstitions, Kabir held the doctrine of Ahinsa or the non-destruction of life, which extended even to that of flowers. The Sikh Gurus, on the contrary, allowed and even encouraged, the use of animal flesh as food. Nanak has exposed this Ahinsa superstition in Asa Ki War (G.G.S. pg 472) and Malar Ke War (G.G.S. pg. 1288).

In general Sikhism has adopted an ambivalent attitude towards meat eating as against vegetarianism. But if meat is to be taken at all, Guru Gobind Singh enjoined on the Khalsa Panth not to take kosher meat ie. Halal meat slaughtered and prepared for eating according to the Islamic practice. In fact it is one of the kurahits for every amritdhari Sikh. One who infringes it becomes patit (apostate).

The Vaishnava tradition is too strong to be shaken off.Since the rules that guide and Amritdhari are from the Rehit-Marayada, which places no taboo on meat eating. The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat together in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal.

mehlaa 1.

maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.
ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.
gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.
maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.
farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.
naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.
anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.
maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.


First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

yes but theres alot more in this shabad, along with a sakhi that puts it all into perspective...

But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.
In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.
You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.
O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.
All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh.
They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind.
In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.
You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.
Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used.
It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.
Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat.
If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them.
The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice.
You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed.
O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated.
Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water.
Water says, ""I am good in many ways."" But water takes many forms.
Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2||


Vaishnavs who make their whole religion a rejection of maas/meat or Jains who despise meat are blind. They don't have the wisdom of the Guru and so they don't know what to eat and what not to eat. If someone cheats and steals, the food purchased with that money is the same as meat even if it is saag. People like the Jains eat things that are inedible like rotten grain but won't eat things like onion, ginger, etc. This is because they have no spiritual knowledge because they don't have knowledge from Satguru.

These pandits make a big show of rejecting meat and hold their nose but they have no shame in looting and cheating.

The pandit has so much pride over his rejection of meat but even in the Hindu faith there have been sacrifices and there are many references in the Hindu scriptures as well, not to mention the Semitic ones.

Having such a hatred of meat that they are afraid to be near it or even touch it is foolish. We ourselves are made of meat. Inside us is meat just like the meat we see for sale in the markets. Our families are made of meat and all our acquaintances. If meat is so bad, then why do you associate with them? Why do the Pandits take money and make their living from Royalty? They too are made of meat.

What is meat and flesh made of? It is not some dirty substance. It is made from grain and water that we eat. So why do you hate it so much?

Only when you get wisdom from Satguru and are able to overcome the lure of these physical "ras" will you be able to become a real Sanyasi.

The gist of this shabad is a condemnation of the pakhand Pandits do when they run away from even the sight of meat and can't even fathom touching it. It says that without Satguru, there is no knowledge

Nowhere in this shabad is there any indication that we should eat meat. Just that we shouldn't hate it because WE are made of meat and we shouldn't think that by giving it up we are spiritual. There is no indication in this shabad that says "meat eating is ok"..

This shabad goes to when Guru Sahib is critising the pandits of their ways and mentallities!

why do you seem to think meditation is a ritual?? have you ever experienced it? or gurbani??? may be if u felt the rass (bliss) you will see it is not ritual, but the fact that Gursikhs actually enjoy doing it. if i go play football everyday does that make it a ritual? no! becuz i do it as i enjoy playing that a sport, not doing it for the sake of doing so!


"In times of trouble, God is remembered by all But none remembers Him during peace and happiness. If God is remembered in good times of happiness Why should trouble occur?"

In times of trouble, God is remembered by all But none remembers Him during peace and happiness. If God is remembered in good times of happiness Why should trouble occur?"

Compare this with the following verse of the Qur’an: "When some trouble toucheth man, He crieth unto his Lord, Turning to Him in repentance: But when He bestoweth A favour upon him As from Himself, (Man) doth forget what he cried And prayed for before, And he doth set up Rivals unto Allah." [Al-Qur’an 39:8]

How can u even call that a copy? is something is said, and it is truth, that means that its being copied????? so your saying any quotes from any sacred text that have the same meaning is a direct copy?? nonsence!

cant you read? i told you that you are following blindly i gave you a great explanation of our miracle ( Quran) i told you Unless you find someone who can replicate the Quran in both its eloquence and beauty, dont say nothing. convince me if you can, otherwise..

and I was not the one saying that you dont bath it was your guru, i Qoute;
''Meaningless rituals such as going hajj, [B]BATHING in the ganges because this apparently 'cleanses the soul'[/b]
so you have just dissapproved your guru....

IF IM NOT MISTAKEN BATHING MEANS BATHING UNLESS YOU SPECIFY OTHERWISE i told you alreAdy we shall see on the Day of judgment.. peace
,...

BATHING IN THE GANGES! i think thats specified otherwise....

 

[One Man Army]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

As for your areguements about the missionaries... you will always hav people with different views. like i said, if i was to even begin on the different sects of islam, id probably be here all day! it doesnt mean that they are right. akaal takht sahib sets core maryada. the bare bones. understand this.
i spoke to a gursikh yesterday that informed me that the actual panj piareh of sri akaal takht sahib condem the eating of meat. if you have queriers, ask them your self at next amrit sanchaar.
in any religion you will have fractions, and variations in believe. the only difference is, in sikhi, the core belief is the same.. hence akaal takht maryada.

 

[IB-Staff]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Please remain aware that any posts that cross the line into promoting another religion will be deleted. Discussion and dialogue are encouraged but please adhere to the forum rules.

Thank you.

 

[One Man Army]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

4. ''Meaningless rituals such as going hajj, bathing in the ganges because this apparently 'cleanses the soul''' ...

I thought you were supposed to be peacefull, do you want to talk about meaninglessness?
explain please?

what about the hair, you let it grow and say that God would not have given it to you if He wanted it to be cut off, okay is that true? then why did God give you nails if He did not want it to be cut? why do you cut your nails?

Hair is a gift from God, therefore why should anyone throw it away by cutting it? Sikhs live the way God made humans and never cut their hair. For Sikhs hair is the symbol of love for God and the respect for everything He has given us. The way God made us is the most beautiful of all. To Christians, even the Bible says, “God loves us and cares so much about us that even all the hairs of our head has well counted” (Matt.10:30).

Hair is one of the five symbols of Sikh faith. One of the reason to keep hair is to preserve the Sikh identity. Sikhs are only 2% of India’s population, if Sikhs do not keep hair, they would be lost in the crowd of Hindus and Muslims.
superficial study of the two shows them to be extremely different from each other. Hair is not a hindrance to anyone. Because hair can be placed in a bun and kept clean and does perform a number of functions, it is only pragmatic to realize that hair is not bad. On the other hand, nails are an important part of the human body, having long nails is a hindrance to the body. An individual with long nails cannot functions and do everyday chores comfortably. In order to ensure that one can perform the tasks of everyday life, nails are trimmed.

In addition, whereas the hair grows from a tubular pit (hair follicle), formed by sinking in of the most actively dividing layer of the skin (stratum germinativum) into the lower dermis, the nails are only modifications of the upper dead layers of the skin (stratum corneum). Further, the base of every follicle bulges out forming an inverted cup, which receives blood capillaries for nourishment and nerve fibers to make the hair sensitive. An oil gland, known as sebaceous gland, opens into every hair follicle, the secretion of which lubricates the hair. A muscle is also attached to the base of every hair for bringing about movement. Pigments are added to the shaft of the hair as it grows. None of these features is associated with the nails.

Structurally also, hair is extremely strong, and resists breaking due to its elasticity and flexibility. Strength of hair can be estimated from the following facts, a human hair laid on a bar of steel and then passed through a cold rolling mill would leave an imprint on the face of the steel. A hair of a man’s beard is about as strong as a copper wire of the same dimensions. If a rope were made out of strands of long hair, it would be strong enough to lift an automobile. Nails, on the other hand, are very brittle and rigid, breaking off easily. Hair are countless (upto 1,25,000 on head region alone), thereby increasing the surface area, as if to meet a specific requirement.

The differences between the two do not end with the structural features. Even the body’s response towards the two is totally different. Our body, throughout life, tries to maintain a particular length of hair. And if the hair is cut anywhere, the body responds by growing it again to the specific length. It clearly indicates the link of the body with the hair all along its length. The body shows no such response to the nails, which grow from birth to death at the same rate, irrespective of whether cut or not. It follows, thus, that cutting of nails does not tell on the body at all, whereas, cutting of hair puts extra load on the body. To sum up, if there is anything on the head that can be compared with the nails, it is dandruff!

Nature knows best what to discard or retain. Whatever is retained is not without purpose. Hair is a gift from God, not a burden. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, in his infinite wisdom, commanded us to respect hair and refrain from tampering with it. This is the visible token of his affection for us, as well as our faith in him.

Nails are simply dead bone. they will break eventually, and are a waste product, no where near the same as hair

 

[IB-Staff]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Nobody is scared for Aman. Your post violated forum rules. However if it were as you claim, your posts above would also have been deleted.

Please remain on topic.

 

[DAWUD_adnan]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

''How can u even call that a copy? is something is said, and it is truth, that means that its being copied????? so your saying any quotes from any sacred text that have the same meaning is a direct copy?? nonsence!''

Not only is it a copy(direct) it does shows how the Quran(Criterion) can not be edited in way which is different but could be similar, without flaws occuring, notice the flaws:

''In times of trouble, God is remembered by all But none remembers Him during peace and happiness. If God is remembered in good times of happiness Why should trouble occur?"

Compare this with the following verse of the Qur’an: "When some trouble toucheth man, He crieth unto his Lord, Turning to Him in repentance: But when He bestoweth A favour upon him As from Himself, (Man) doth forget what he cried And prayed for before, And he doth set up Rivals unto Allah." [Al-Qur’an 39:8]

All the underlined is a copy
The bold is a flaw

why? clearly this is a mistake since even the best humans will go through the hardest hardships for God to test their ability of patience and conduct, why were the most religious sikhs hurt so much even though they were ''good'', if your guru says "why should trouble occur?" would this mean that they were and are not good enough since they have and still are going through hardships?

definition of Trouble : A state of distress, affliction, difficulty,


why was your guru going through hardships if he was remembering God so good? Could it perhaps be that he was not good enough? but if that is so how could you follow him? Quran rules face it dude, even when the guy tried to copy he still couldnt ....
I leave with this:

[40:22] That is because their messengers went to them with clear proofs, but they disbelieved. Consequently, Allah punished them. He is Mighty, strict in enforcing retribution.


Peace
Answered by the Quran peace ! holla back !

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

''How can u even call that a copy? is something is said, and it is truth, that means that its being copied????? so your saying any quotes from any sacred text that have the same meaning is a direct copy?? nonsence!''

Not only is it a copy(direct) it does shows how the Quran(Criterion) can not be edited in way which is different but could be similar, without flaws occuring, notice the flaws:

''In times of trouble, God is remembered by all But none remembers Him during peace and happiness. If God is remembered in good times of happiness Why should trouble occur?"

Compare this with the following verse of the Qur’an: "When some trouble toucheth man, He crieth unto his Lord, Turning to Him in repentance: But when He bestoweth A favour upon him As from Himself, (Man) doth forget what he cried And prayed for before, And he doth set up Rivals unto Allah." [Al-Qur’an 39:8]

Those verses remind me of the ones Musaylamah Al Kadhab made up trying to imitate the Qur'an. Indeed anyone who tries to imitate this Book, Allaah will cause him to fail miserably.

Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).

 

[One Man Army]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

this is just rubbish. if something said is truth, then it is truth! no matter where it has come from! it doesnt mean it has been copied. the Guru did not go through hardship what so ever in worldy affairs, if u know any thing about sikhi u will know so... example, when Guru Gobind Singh jee gave up 4 sons for the khalsa and didnt shed one tear, and instead spoke of how thousands of his sons still live. despite his younger sons being aged 6 and 8 and being tortured alive.
The Guru writes in perspective for us. for us to understand. and for us to realise.

If something is true then it is true. in that case we could sit here all day finding similar quotes from the quran and other sacred texts matching similarirites and calling them copies.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

does sikhi also not have martyrs to its faith?

Abu Abdullah

Many! - But no mention of virgins wine etc etc.

The mere thought of being with God is sufficient. What he gives us while we are there, is up to him.

 

[Malaikah]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

The mere thought of being with God is sufficient. What he gives us while we are there, is up to him.

Really? So why is it you are attacking what the Muslims are given by God in heaven if it is 'up to Him'?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Really? So why is it you are attacking what the Muslims are given by God in heaven if it is 'up to Him'?

Because we don't believe he's compiled a list like you claim in the Quran