Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

Dawaud

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/martyrs/nojava.html

Our GREATEST MARTYS

Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji The first Sikh Guru to be Martyred by Mughal Emperor Shahjehan (one who built Taj Mahal) for not converting to Islam.

Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur ji - were Ninth Guru who were martyred by Emperor Aurungzeb at Chandani Chowk Delhi, for not converting to Islam.

Bhai Satidass ji went along with Guru Tegh Bahadur and were martyred to Chandani Chowk Delhi.

Bhai Dyal Dass ji also went along with Guru Tegh Bahadur to Delhi and were martyred at Chandani Chowk Delhi.

Chhote Sahibzade were the young Sons of Guru Gobind Singh who were captured by the Mughal Governor of City of Sarhind, Wazir Khan. He martyred 7 year and 9 years Old Sikhs for not converting to Islam.

Mata Gujari ji , Guru Gobind Singh's mother left this world after hearing the martyrdom of his grandsons .

Bhai Haqiqat Rai ji at the tender teenage, he was too proud to be a Sikh, resulting in his martyrdom by the hands of Mughals at Lahore.

Bhai Mani Singh ji was the pious Granthi of Golden Temple who was given option either to convert or to be cut into pieces. He picked death to be cut into pieces and with Gurbani on his lips he attained martyrdom.

Many Sikhs were Martyred by the cruel Mughal Governor of Lahore named Zakriya Khan.

Bhai Tarusingh ji were captured by Mughals on as he was feeding Sikhs who were hiding from Government. He was martyred by Mughals but only by cutting his scalp and not his hair.

Bhai Subeg singh and Bhai Shahbaz Singh were father and son who were martyred on specially created wheels.

The Khalsa Women and children were martyred by Meer Mannu for not converting to Islam.

 

[One Man Army]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

just a tip off the iceberg that khalsa has just posted. if we was to go into the nature of some of their shaheedi's u wont understand how just normal people could undergo such torture whilst peacefully sitting reciting gurbani

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

just a tip off the iceberg that khalsa has just posted. if we was to go into the nature of some of their shaheedi's u wont understand how just normal people could undergo such torture whilst peacefully sitting reciting gurbani

Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur ji:'( imsad

How Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji did not feel pain, when he was tourtured on the hot metal plate, as fire was lit beneath & hot sand poured over his head. imsad

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

there are many people who do not feel pain under extreme conditions, it does not in itself constitute a miracle or proof of such a person recieving divine guidence and help.

there were also many muslims killed by sikhs, but we need to get past such old arguments or we will never learn to get along and respect each others views even if we disagree with each other.

Abu Abdullah

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

there were also many muslims killed by sikhs, but we need to get past such old arguments or we will never learn to get along and respect each others views even if we disagree with each other.

Abu Abdullah

This is our history. No Sikh killed a muslim in the same way as above! Read what a muslim says about how the Sikhs treat prisoners and how we are on the battlefield! Does not mean we hate muslims ( well I don't) Allah has told us to fogive just as Jesus did on the cross. - Giving you an insight to our history. It's not to say we had hindus conspire against the Gurus too, but not to the point mugals did.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

This is our history. No Sikh killed a muslim in the same way as above! Read what a muslim says about how the Sikhs treat prisoners and how we are on the battlefield! Does not mean we hate muslims ( well I don't) Allah has told us to fogive just as Jesus did on the cross. - Giving you an insight to our history. It's not to say we had hindus conspire against the Gurus too, but not to the point mugals did.

i have many issues with the mogul rulers, mostly that they didnt rule by shariah in almost every instance and were certainly not the best example of islam for anyone to look at.

this what you are saying about the torture and so on only shows me more that they were not ruling by the law of Allah but according to their whims and desires.

therefore just as you have shown me the hatred and bile that comes from some who claim the sikh faith is not according to your way of life then accept that such tortures are not according to our way of life if sincerely followed.

Abu Abdullah

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: beginners guide to sikhism?

i have many issues with the mogul rulers, mostly that they didnt rule by shariah in almost every instance and were certainly not the best example of islam for anyone to look at.

this what you are saying about the torture and so on only shows me more that they were not ruling by the law of Allah but according to their whims and desires.

therefore just as you have shown me the hatred and bile that comes from some who claim the sikh faith is not according to your way of life then accept that such tortures are not according to our way of life if sincerely followed.

Abu Abdullah

I know. And I've also highlighted the Muslims who were loyal to the Gurus too. Read my posts on it previously, or you can create a thread and we can discuss the good of Sikh - Muslim relations.

Golden Temple foundations were laid by Sian Mian Mir, why? Because to sow the equality of mankind. No hatred shown towards muslims because of the actions of a few misguided fools. Sikhi is unique.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Discussion between Muslims & Sikh's about random things.



Salaam/peace;

Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't go to Mecca to perform Hajj. Instead he busted a myth that God lived in Mecca only

---Muslims don’t believe that God lives in Holy Macca .......who told u so ? Holy Kaaba in Macca is a mosque……..the first mosque in the earth.

.....
Find out what happened in Mecca. Guru Nanak Dev Ji went there

Unless one is a Muslim , it’s not possible to enter Kaaba. So , how the Guru went there ? IF u really believe that he went there , then why it’s impossible that he embraced Islam ?

. In my simple theory, those who can't have peace on this earth, how can they ever go to a peaceful place after they die?

---LOL. U think those are ' so-called ' happy in this world will be happy in life hereafter , too ? Is this the teaching of Sikhism ? Bush is king of this world....do u think , he is surely going to heaven ?

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Salaam/peace;

---Muslims don’t believe that God lives in Holy Macca .......who told u so ? Holy Kaaba in Macca is a mosque……..the first mosque in the earth.

Then why is it that you don't lie down with your feet towards Mecca?

Unless one is a Muslim , it’s not possible to enter Kaaba. So , how the Guru went there ? IF u really believe that he went there , then why it’s impossible that he embraced Islam ?

Nothing is impossible for a person united with God. If you look at the link I provided, it says that Guru wore all the clothes haajis did. So, it is possible that people assumed he was a haajji.

Something interesting to read from http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Guru_Nanak_in_Mecca:

In the morning, a number of learned hajjis gathered around the Guru. They held religious discussions with him. He satisfied every one of them. He explained to them his golden rules of life and religion. They listened to him with utmost attention. They agreed to live and act as advised by him. One of them said to the Guru, ‘Holy Sir, give me something which will always remind me of you.’ The Guru gave him his pair of sandals. They were respectfully kept in the Kaaba for some time. That Muslim fakir then returned to India. He brought the sandals with him. He kept them in his temple at Uch in Bahawalpur, now in Pakistan.

Why would he want to convert when he was a messenger himself?

---LOL. U think those are ' so-called ' happy in this world will be happy in life hereafter , too ? Is this the teaching of Sikhism ? Bush is king of this world....do u think , he is surely going to heaven ?

This is something people don't understand. There is a difference between being happy and being peaceful. A Sikh is supposed to have control over mind by controlling five vices - Kaam, Krodh, loabh, moh and hankaar - lust, anger, greed, worldly attachment and ego. Once you have controlled five vices, you achieved peace within. Once you have achieved peace within, this will be reflected in your actions. So, once you have achieved this state of mind, you will not be committing terrorism, will not bashing homosexuals and will not use dirty tricks to convert people. In fact, you won't even be interested in converting people at all. Instead, you will understand that people have freedom to live their as they wish. You will simply have full control over your own self. You will not have any negative effect at all on the world.

It has nothing to do with what Bush is doing.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Then why is it that you don't lie down with your feet towards Mecca?

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “There is no sin on a person if he sleep with his feet towards the Ka’bah, rather the fuqaha’ (may Allaah have mercy on them) said: if a sick person cannot stand or sit, he should pray lying on his side with his face towards the qiblah, and if he cannot then he should pray on his back with his feet towards the qiblah.”



Fataawa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 2/976



http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=20943&ln=eng&txt=

Nothing is impossible for a person united with God. If you look at the link I provided, it says that Guru wore all the clothes haajis did. So, it is possible that people assumed he was a haajji.

Something interesting to read from http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Guru_Nanak_in_Mecca:


Why would he want to convert when he was a messenger himself?

So God is inside humans now..? Just like christianity? Allaah is Above what they associate with Him.

This is something people don't understand. There is a difference between being happy and being peaceful. A Sikh is supposed to have control over mind by controlling five vices - Kaam, Krodh, loabh, moh and hankaar - lust, anger, greed, worldly attachment and ego. Once you have controlled five vices, you achieved peace within. Once you have achieved peace within, this will be reflected in your actions. So, once you have achieved this state of mind, you will not be committing terrorism, will not bashing homosexuals and will not use dirty tricks to convert people. In fact, you won't even be interested in converting people at all. Instead, you will understand that people have freedom to live their as they wish. You will simply have full control over your own self. You will not have any negative effect at all on the world.

It has nothing to do with what Bush is doing.

So that means they don't call others towards being with God and these people should be left alone? Because their not worthy of being with God in the hereafter?

 

[جوري]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Then why is it that you don't lie down with your feet towards Mecca?

QUOTE]

Allow me to answer this one pls
It is disrespectful ... the same as if I came to your house and your mother was serving refreshments and I decided to put my feet up on the table where she is serving... what do you think honestly? Can I do that or would you request that I kindly remove my feet? Sure the whole house belongs to your mother (family) putting my feet up toward your closet or bathroom wouldn't be as bad as putting it on the table would it?
Thank you!

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Then why is it that you don't lie down with your feet towards Mecca?


Allow me to answer this one pls
It is disrespectful ... the same as if I came to your house and your mother was serving refreshments and I decided to put my feet up on the table where she is serving... what do you think honestly? Can I do that or would you request that I kindly remove my feet? Sure the whole house belongs to your mother (family) putting my feet up toward your closet or bathroom wouldn't be as bad as putting it on the table would it?
Thank you!

And you still pray with your face towards Mecca regardless where in the world you are. If you are only praying to God and God is everywhere, why would you have to face Mecca while praying?

 

[SUMMAYAH]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

To UNITE the muslims in facing the same direction when remembering their lord.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

And you still pray with your face towards Mecca regardless where in the world you are. If you are only praying to God and God is everywhere, why would you have to face Mecca while praying?

God is not everywhere, He is above his throne which is above the 7th heaven. Also, the muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem.

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

So God is inside humans now..? Just like christianity? Glory be to God with what they associate with Him.

When we say someone is united with God, it means that person's soul is unted with God's spirit. They could be living on this earth or the world beyond.

So that means they don't call others towards being with God and these people should be left alone? Because their not worthy of being with God in the hereafter?

Spiritual people don't have to call people. People have this charisma that will automatically attract people and once people start associating with them, they automatically become spiritual.

 

[جوري]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

And you still pray with your face towards Mecca regardless where in the world you are. If you are only praying to God and God is everywhere, why would you have to face Mecca while praying?

Why do Jews pray toward the wailing wall? why do Catholics receive sacraments? why do Sikhs grow their hair, wear a turban and carry a comb and wear two bracelets on each hand? why do surgeons scrub before surgery... why is the sky blue? why does the kidney only filter 20% of plasma? why does the lung have dead space? We can spend all day arguing... You trying to highlight a point that has no basis. This is what you conceive to be true of G-D.
I rather love the unity of Islam that no matter where you are in the world, it is as if you are in the first house of G-D, rich, poor, black, white or yellow, praying in the same exact way..... feeling hunger in the same way in Ramahadan and sharing in the same experience during pilgrimage in the same house where Abraham first prayed!

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Allah's presense is everywhere.

Allaah is above His throne above Paradise sister. That is the view of the people of sunnah. Allaah is everywhere in knowledge though, because if someone was to say that God's everywhere, then the first thing a child would ask is - what about the bathroom. etc. We seek refuge in Allaah.


In regard to the Ka'aba, it's a qiblah for us - so we all have a focus point, and it's a form of unity. Imagine everyone praying in different directions, that would disunite the ummah. So the ka'aba is a qiblah for us.


And Allaah knows best.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

When we say someone is united with God, it means that person's soul is unted with God's spirit. They could be living on this earth or the world beyond.

So God has a spirit now? Is that mentioned in your scripture? And there's people walking on earth who will become God?

What about the messengers of God who came in the past, you accept them right? How come all these messengers came with different understandings of God? Like Muhammad (peace be upon him) recieved the message that there is no incarnation, and that God is way above what they associate with Him. We are only His servants, and God has no associates.

Spiritual people don't have to call people. People have this charisma that will automatically attract people and once people start associating with them, they automatically become spiritual.

Like a magnet? What if someone doesn't get the chance to meet this spiritual person, and no-one invites this person to sikhism? Isn't this person in dangerous position? Will they never be able to be with God again?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Sikhism: There is evidence to suggest that Guru Nanak, was most likely a Muslim then a Hindu or a Sikh, he prayed with Muslims, he ate with Muslims, his best friend was a Muslim, he went to mecca near the Kabbah, and we all know non-Muslims are not allowed near the Kahhbah. Conclusion he was a Muslim not a Sikh, all Sikhs should convert to Islam and me Muslims. I mean Sikhism says all paths lead to one destination so it doesn't really matter what religion you follow according to Sikhism. If I was a Sikh I would convert to Islam.
.

What a load of codswollop! - I'm happy you've found something you believe in though!

Sat Shri Akal!

What ruined everything were the Gurus who came after him, like Guru Gobind Singh who introduced the 5 K's, kirpaan, kara, etc...at all times.

It was Gobind Singh who changed the teachings of Guru Nanak - he lived his life and the books written about him are full of many fallacies.

What his personal beliefs were Allahu 'alam, but I do not think that it is appropriate to label Guru Nanak as a non-Muslim. He was a student as someone has already said, of Baba Farid 'Shakar-Ganj.'

Oh jatta, watch what you type in regard to the Successors of Guru Nanak dev ji!

The above you posted is all off a muslim site i've encountered before.

I too can bring sources that discredit Mohammed, but I'm not shallow like you, so I would ask admin to delete his post out of respect to the Sikh religion!

Gur Fateh!

And you still pray with your face towards Mecca regardless where in the world you are. If you are only praying to God and God is everywhere, why would you have to face Mecca while praying?

This is the whole point of Guru Nanaks mission. He did not embrace Islam. Prove it if he did!

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

So God has a spirit now? Is that mentioned in your scripture? And there's people walking on earth who will become God?

There are people who will eventually be united with God, with God's grace of course.

What about the messengers of God who came in the past, you accept them right?

I like to make statement without saying anything as I don't want to offend by making a statement.

How come all these messengers came with different understandings of God? Like Muhammad (peace be upon him) recieved the message that there is no incarnation, and that God is way above what they associate with Him. We are only His servants, and God has no associates.

If prophets said there was no reincarnation, did the same prophets say how many people are supposed to come to this world? Did they say if God had any such plans? Did they tell you when soul was created?

Like a magnet? What if someone doesn't get the chance to meet this spiritual person, and no-one invites this person to sikhism? Isn't this person in dangerous position? Will they never be able to be with God again?

With God's grace, anyone who is meant to be spiritual meets a true Sikh. It's very rare though but it does happen.