Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam



You are entitled to keep your beliefs but remember this is an Islamic Forum, any sort of mocking of God will be deleted. And so will off topic posts.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

There are people who will eventually be united with God, with God's grace of course.

That wasn't my question, my question was regarding incarnation. That is everyone potential God walking on earth?

I like to make statement without saying anything as I don't want to offend by making a statement.


If prophets said there was no reincarnation, did the same prophets say how many people are supposed to come to this world? Did they say if God had any such plans? Did they tell you when soul was created?

They never mentioned the number, but there are verses which talk regarding this:

And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this."

Or lest you should say: "It was only our fathers afortime who took others as partners in worship along with Allah, and we were (merely their) descendants after them; will You then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practised Al-Batil (i.e. polytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allah)?" (Tafsir At-Tabari).

: Thus do We explain the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail, so that they may turn (unto the truth).

[Qur'an 7: 172-4]
​

There is only One God, our own Creator and there is none worthy of worship except Him. This is the same call of all the messengers.

With God's grace, anyone who is meant to be spiritual meets a true Sikh. It's very rare though but it does happen.

But isn't it more safer for the person's hereafter that a person calls them to their religion instead of leaving them to stray?



Regards.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Oh by the Jatt, just as you think Sikhs should convert, I think all Pakistani and Indian Muslims should revert to Sikhi as Sikhs are the only ones who resisted and fought forceful conversion while these people were busy getting converted.

I'm a paki, and the reason why i don't leave islaam is because it makes total sense to me.

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

That wasn't my question, my question was regarding incarnation. That is everyone potential God walking on earth?

I am not sure where the confusion is. But yes only with grace of God, our soul will be united with God, re-incarnated or not.

They never mentioned the number,

Well re-incarnation makes better sense to me. Simply if a soul were created out of nothing when we were born, why is it that it can't disappear into nothingness?

There is only One God, our own Creator and there is none worthy of worship except Him. This is the same call of all the messengers.

There is only one creator for sure. God is how we understand the creator, which apparently is different in different religions.

But isn't it more safer for the person's hereafter that a person calls them to their religion instead of leaving them to stray?

With God's grace those who are meant to be with Him, will somehow find a way. I am not convinced that any of us here know a whole lot about God. We are simply depending on our perception. Then how can we lead others in God's way? People can go His way only with His will

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

I am not sure where the confusion is. But yes only with grace of God, our soul will be united with God, re-incarnated or not.

According to that, it seems as if God isn't complete according to my understanding of these beliefs. Because being part of God later on means that God needs to be united with His own creation, and because that isn't the case right now - then God isn't really 'full'?

Well re-incarnation makes better sense to me. Simply if a soul were created out of nothing when we were born, why is it that it can't disappear into nothingness?

That's because once Allaah creates our souls, then they live on. So there is a starting point, which God created [i.e. us] And Allaah chose them to live on, either in paradise or hellfire depending on the person's own actions in this world.

There is only one creator for sure. God is how we understand the creator, which apparently is different in different religions.

Yeah i agree, but God is One, and has no children, no associates. God is not physically within the creation. And He is self-sufficient, not in need of us. By saying that we will become 'God' when we die, if we are pious is saying that God isn't complete, it's also saying that God isn't One.

With God's grace those who are meant to be with Him, will somehow find a way. I am not convinced that any of us here know a whole lot about God. We are simply depending on our perception. Then how can we lead others in God's way? People can go His way only with His will

Yes, we follow the way to God. And God doesn't make belief's hard for us. So if someone claims that God has children, then we know that it isn't real - because God is glorified way above that as He has no associates. He only does what befits His Majesty.




Regards.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Believe me, this is not a generalization. Please read Sikh History and you will find out...

We get our example off the Prophets and the companions of the Messenger of Allaah. So if someone goes against what the rightly guided before us did, then that mean's their not doing the right actions.


Allaah says in the Qur'an:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]
​

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

According to that, it seems as if God isn't complete according to my understanding of these beliefs. Because being part of God later on means that God needs to be united with His own creation, and because that isn't the case right now - then God isn't really 'full'?

Oh no, God doesn't need us, we need Him.

That's because once Allaah creates our souls, then they live on. So there is a starting point, which God created [i.e. us] And Allaah chose them to live on, either in paradise or hellfire depending on the person's own actions in this world.

Why does God create soul in the first place? Please don't ask me because i don't know either .

Yeah i agree, but God is One, and has no children, no associates. God is not physically within the creation. And He is self-sufficient, not in need of us. By saying that we will become 'God' when we die, if we are pious is saying that God isn't complete, it's also saying that God isn't One.

What exactly do you mean? If God had no associates, then how would concept of paradise and heaven make sense? According to the concept of paradise, doesn't He live there along with other people?

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Of course! - If you look back, I do not try to make trouble here, I try to learn and answer questions on my faith. But when somebody makes flaming remarks about my religion (first) then the natural reaction is to retaliate brother.

I'm here to discuss and debate and have a laugh. Just like most. Allah is one, and we are all his children.

Gur Fateh

No we're not Allaah's children, we are His creation and His servants.


Regards.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Oh no, God doesn't need us, we need Him.

Yeh, i agree.

Why does God create soul in the first place? Please don't ask me because i don't know either .

Blessed be He in Whose hands is Dominion; and He over all things hath Power;-

He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-

[Qur'an 67:1-2]


​

So Allaah has created us in this world to test us on who is best in deeds among us.

What exactly do you mean? If God had no associates, then how would concept of paradise and heaven make sense? According to the concept of paradise, doesn't He live there along with other people?

Allaah's throne ['Arsh] is the roof of paradise. So everyone is below Him. He will reward those who worship none but Him, and those who obey His true messengers.

There are no Lord's, no other's worthy of worship, besides Him, the Praised. The dwellers of His paradise will praise Him and He will give them an eternal reward.


That doesn't mean the people of paradise are equal's to Him, rather they are still Allaah's creation but Allaah is pleased with them so He will reward them with an everlasting reward. May Allaah make us the dwellers of His paradise. ameen.



Regards.

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

So Allaah has created us in this world to test us on who is best in deeds among us.

But according to you, He created the soul out of nothing. If He didn't create the soul, there would be nothing to be tested. First of all, why did He feel the need to test? Secondly, when He created the soul, didn't He create all souls equal? Then what's the point of testing. If He didn't create all souls equal, then He knows it all who is going to pass the test and who is going to fail, then what's point of testing?

That doesn't mean the people of paradise are equal's to Him, rather they are still Allaah's creation but Allaah is pleased with them so He will reward them with an everlasting reward. May Allaah make us the dwellers of His paradise.

No nobody has ever claimed to be equal to God. The difference here is that you believe that you can only meet God after physical death but a "true" Sikh get united while living this life.

 

[cool_jannah]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

I was talking about the forceful conversion that happened in India. You will notice that some of the Muslim from Pakistan share the last names with us, especially Punjabis. That's we were all Hindus at one time. Some of them became Muslims and our ancestors became Sikhs. There was a lot of forceful conversion as well.

The belief and trust in the Oneness of Allah is all about Eemaan (true inner faith) and its only that if you have a strong Eemaan your outer appearance by default shows signs of it. So forceful conversion does not really count unless the people who came in the fold of Islam believed in Allah and His last messenger (pbuh) from deep within their hearts. People who are Muslim from looks or mere outwardly actions standpoint, there is a term for them - munifiqeen (hypocrites) and these are the people who will be in the deepest pits of hell fire. So my argument is that it is extreemely diffcult to forcefully make people believe in something that they are insisting on getting rid of. Islam is a blessing and those who got the guidance are witness to it. Forcefull conversion to Islam is a very negatively inclined statement having double connotations, suggesting that the people who accept Islam have been forcefully made to accpet something bad. So this tactic of the kuffar will never really work.

Alhamdulillah 'ala ne'amatil Islam

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

But according to you, He created the soul out of nothing. If He didn't create the soul, there would be nothing to be tested. First of all, why did He feel the need to test? Secondly, when He created the soul, didn't He create all souls equal? Then what's the point of testing. If He didn't create all souls equal, then He knows it all who is going to pass the test and who is going to fail, then what's point of testing?

That is God's own will. He willed to create us to test us and now that we're created, it's our duty to obey. Otherwise we'll be punished for being disobedient. But if we're obedient, we'll be rewarded.

Yes Allaah knows the future, but we don't - that's why we strive to gain God's Mercy and Pleasure, so we can be successful in our mission in this life, and the life of the hereafter.

No nobody has ever claimed to be equal to God. The difference here is that you believe that you can only meet God after physical death but a "true" Sikh get united while living this life.

Someone claiming to be an equal to God is someone who feels that they can apply a law other than the law of God. That's why the true Messenger's of Allaah come with clear proofs and signs which no-one else can perform except a prophet, by the leave of Allaah.

Also praying to others besides our own Creator is a form of divine prayers and cannot be directed towards anyone besides God Alone. etc.


I still don't understand the concept of a 'true sikh' 'uniting' with God, because God is One, and if a person 'unites with God' that mean's that the person has 'become God'? So that mean's God isn't One because someone else has just become God?

 

[NoName55]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

If He didn't create all souls equal, then He knows it all who is going to pass the test and who is going to fail, then what's point of testing?

all and sundry

Is there a master of shatranj/chess on the forum?
If you listening, then tell these people wheather or not you know the result every move possible, (that may be made) beforehand?

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

That is God's own will. He willed to create us to test us and now that we're created, it's our duty to obey. Otherwise we'll be punished for being disobedient. But if we're obedient, we'll be rewarded.

Well I am not sure if it makes sense to say that he created us to test as He is knowing it all. He know who is exactly what...

Someone claiming to be an equal to God is someone who feels that they can apply a law other than the law of God. That's why the true Messenger's of Allaah come with clear proofs and signs which no-one else can perform except a prophet, by the leave of Allaah.

Who is applying laws other than the God's law? There is no such thing as law other than God's law. If we believe that God created the whole universe, then everything within this whole universe is law of nature, thus law of God. Every action of ours have certain outcome, negative or positive and that is law of nature.

I still don't understand the concept of a 'true sikh' 'uniting' with God, because God is One, and if a person 'unites with God' that mean's that the person has 'become God'? So that mean's God isn't One because someone else has just become God?

When we say someone is united with, what we mean is that s/he is spiritually connected with God's spirit. It doesn't mean s/he is equal to Him or has become God.

A 'true Sikh' is the one whose soul is connected up there with God. Most of us today are not true Sikhs. We are simply wanna-bes

Of course this is only how I understand

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Well I am not sure if it makes sense to say that he created us to test as He is knowing it all. He know who is exactly what...

If God placed some people in paradise and others in hellfire, then the people might question why? So by God actually allowing us to live our lives with freedom of choice, then that will be proof for or against us on the day of judgement.

Who is applying laws other than the God's law? There is no such thing as law other than God's law. If we believe that God created the whole universe, then everything within this whole universe is law of nature, thus law of God. Every action of ours have certain outcome, negative or positive and that is law of nature.

God created wrong and right, if someone hits you for example - you know it's wrong. That's because God has placed it in our fitrah [natural inclination] to do good and to abstain from evil. Our fitrah can change by the society around us, so the guidance is there to go hand in hand so the person has a criterion. That's why the Qur'an is also referred to as Al-Furqaan [the Criterion.]

When we say someone is united with, what we mean is that s/he is spiritually connected with God's spirit. It doesn't mean s/he is equal to Him or has become God.

A 'true Sikh' is the one whose soul is connected up there with God. Most of us today are not true Sikhs. We are simply wanna-bes

Of course this is only how I understand

But where is their proof that God has a spirit? Do you have any authentic scripture to back that? And also, if the sikhs today are mainly wanabe's - does that mean that according to your beliefs, you'll never be with God?



Regards.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

LOL!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)

Waheguru is not bound by anything he is emancipated from everything. That is why I find it hard to fathom people saying God is in 7th Heaven only, Which implies he is bound for above only!

God is above His Throne, and He is aware of all things. God doesn't need to be part of the creation.


Regards.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

God is above His Throne, and He is aware of all things. God doesn't need to be part of the creation.


Regards.

too bharpoor jaani-aa mai door.

You are present everywhere. I had thought that You were far away.

Guru Nanak Dev

thaan thanantar rav rahi-aa parabh mayraa bharpoor. ||3||

He is Ever-present. My God is totally pervading all places and interspaces. ||3||

Guru Arjan Dev

 

[cool_jannah]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

You are present everywhere. I had thought that You were far away.

He is Ever-present. My God is totally pervading all places and interspaces. ||3||

Guru Arjan Dev

True. He is closer to you than your jugular vein. and it is also time to acknowledge that this God has now sent a new prophet, the last prophet for you to believe in. So it is time to leave the old scriptures and accept the new ones sent by God. They all call you to believe and submit to the Oneness of God and do good deeds. Its not that hard to understand. To reject a prophet is kufr(major sin)...as we know from the examples of the previous nations and what happened to them.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam



Salaam/peace;

Then why is it that you don't lie down with your feet towards Mecca?

--out of respect , brother ....nothing else. If there is a holy Quran on my table , i will avoid to direct my feet towards Quran. It's not that Allah is residing in Quran....it's my love & respect to my holy book.

Guru wore all the clothes haajis did. So, it is possible that people assumed he was a haajji.

--a respected person like ur Guru dressed like a Hadji when he was not really ? Don't u think , u r accusing ur Guru to told lie to people ?


Also , i don't think Muslims are that liberal to allow a Sikh to enter their mosque & preaching his religion & try to convert other Muslims.


Do u think , Sikhs will be happy if a Muslim disguises himself as a Sikh , enter to Golden Temple & try to convert other Sikhs to Islam ?


---- Once you have controlled five vices, you achieved peace within.

---so , u think , Muslims don't have peace in mind ? When we pray , when we go to Sujud , do u know how we feel ?

In fact, you won't even be interested in converting people at all.

--force conversion is not allowed in Islam.

Instead, you will understand that people have freedom to live their as they wish.

-- Of Course , but we must invite them to the Truth. We must do it in a polite manner , not by force.

You will not have any negative effect at all on the world.

-----That's what Quran teaches :statisfie

Have you seen him who denies the deen (religion)?

He is the one who harshly rebuffs the orphan and does not urge the feeding of the poor.

So woe to those who do salat (regular prayers), whose hearts from their salat are remote, those who show off and deny help to others.

(Surat al-Ma'un: 1-7)


Solution: The Values of the Qur'an

http://www.harunyahya.com/solutions01.php

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Salaam/peace;

--out of respect , brother ....nothing else. If there is a holy Quran on my table , i will avoid to direct my feet towards Quran. It's not that Allah is residing in Quran....it's my love & respect to my holy book.

We have already gone past this. You still pray facing Mecca regardless where you are.

--a respected person like ur Guru dressed like a Hadji when he was not really ? Don't u think , u r accusing ur Guru to told lie to people ?

Well it wouldn't lying because he probably understand the real meaning of hajj and better way to do than anybody else. Now it doesn't mean he went there for the same reason as you guys do. But it was his own way of doing what a hajj should be.

Let me give you another example. Before he left for his journey, he went to a Mosque. The people in the Mosque asked him to pray with them. He agreed. So people started bowing and all to pray. But he didn't do anything. The people in the mosque asked him how come he didn't pray with them. His answer was that he promised to pray with them but none of them was really praying as they were still thinking of their family while thinking they were praying.

-- Of Course , but we must invite them to the Truth. We must do it in a polite manner , not by force.

If you don't know the truth yourself, how would you be able to show others the truth? If you knew the truth, you would have been the prophet. You and I simply believe our perception and that's all it is