Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

If God placed some people in paradise and others in hellfire, then the people might question why? So by God actually allowing us to live our lives with freedom of choice, then that will be proof for or against us on the day of judgement.

Don't you think God would be worried people questioning if he didn't worry about people question why he created them? What you are talking about is also called karma. A Sikh is above that as he already has controlled vices.

God created wrong and right, if someone hits you for example - you know it's wrong. That's because God has placed it in our fitrah [natural inclination] to do good and to abstain from evil. Our fitrah can change by the society around us, so the guidance is there to go hand in hand so the person has a criterion. That's why the Qur'an is also referred to as Al-Furqaan [the Criterion.]

Whatever has negative outcome is wrong and whatever has positive outcome is right. But I know God hasn't appointed anybody as a watch dog to watch what people are.

But where is their proof that God has a spirit? Do you have any authentic scripture to back that? And also, if the sikhs today are mainly wanabe's - does that mean that according to your beliefs, you'll never be with God?

How do you believe God revealed Himself to Mohammad Sahib? Was it through a spirit or some other ways?

I am not even good enough to be a Sikh wanna-be. I know I will never meet God, at least this time around but I do know that we have is much better than what some of the other religions could.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam



Salaam/peace;

We have already gone past this. You still pray facing Mecca regardless where you are.

--- I suggest u to listen to /read answers of Dr. Zakir Naik . He is an Indian doc .

The misconceptions about Islam

The Kabah is for unifying Muslims at prayer.


It would be chaotic if Muslims prayed in any direction they chose. The Kabah provides a chance to unify in prayer as all Muslims face one spot, the Kabah.



Throughout the globe people from various countries face North, South, East and West only to face the Kabah. When the Arabs drew the map of the globe, they put Makkah in the center; but when the Western people gained power, they put Greenwich in the center. But if you look at the map, Makkah continues to be in the center of the globe even today.

Alhamdulillah!


Some accuse Muslims to be idol worshippers because they kiss the black rock at Kabah. This they do only because they saw the prophet do it. The black stone has no power to benefit or harm you.



In olden times, the call to prayer was given by standing on the top of Kabah. If Muslims were idol worshippers, would they stand on top of their 'idol' and call people to pray.



Does a Hindu or a Christian stand on top of their idols and call others to join in the worship?




http://www.islamawareness.net/Islam/misconcep.html

But it was his own way of doing what a hajj should be.

---Hajj is only for Muslims ....do Sikhs go to holy Macca & perform Hajj ?

If u believe that he performed Hajj , then he was a Muslim , if he was not a Muslim , then pl. stop telling us that he went to Macca & holy Kaaba came to him.



About Guru’s sandals kept inside the Kaaba , I asked about in another thread … ….any proof/any photograph/any non-Sikh historian reported about it ?




I don’t think sandals of the last Prophet (p) were kept inside Kaaba at any time. It's simply impossible that Muslims kept sandals of a Sikh Guru inside their holiest mosque.

His answer was that he promised to pray with them but none of them was really praying as they were still thinking of their family while thinking they were praying.

---why a Sikh went to a mosque & wanted to pray with Muslims ? He wanted to preach Sikhism to them or was he really a Muslim ?

If you don't know the truth yourself, how would you be able to show others the truth?

---- I know what is the Truth :statisfie , just ask

If you knew the truth, you would have been the prophet.

---haha , by who's defination ?

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

--- I suggest u to listen to /read answers of Dr. Zakir Naik . He is an Indian doc .

Who cares what doc says.

---Hajj is only for Muslims ....do Sikhs go to holy Macca & perform Hajj ?

If u believe that he performed Hajj , then he was a Muslim , if he was not a Muslim , then pl. stop telling us that he went to Macca & holy Kaaba came to him.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji went to various places to show them the truth. He also went to a Hindu place called Hardwar. There he saw people throwing water towards Sun thinking they were worshiping Sun. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started throwing water towards Punjab, which happened to be in the other direction. The Hindus asked him why he was throwing water in the other direction. He told them that he was irrigating his fields in Punjab. They told him that water could never reach Punjab. He asked him if the water couldn't reach Punjab, how could it reach the Sun, which is much father than Punjab? He simply went there to show them that their beliefs didn't make sense.

About Guru’s sandals kept inside the Kaaba , I asked about in another thread … ….any proof/any photograph/any non-Sikh historian reported about it ?

You can probably go to the gurdwara those sandals are today and ask them the history.

---why a Sikh went to a mosque & wanted to pray with Muslims ? He wanted to preach Sikhism to them or was he really a Muslim ?

He simply wanted to show them the truth...

---- I know what is the Truth :statisfie , just ask

You are undermining God if you think you know the truth.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam



Salaam/peace;

Who cares what doc says.

---:rollseyes

u r in an Islamic forum . So , i thought u might be interested to learn more about Islam , specially to remove ur misconceptions.

He is also a student of comperative religion. Among his audiences , many if not most are Hindus , Sikhs , Jains etc.

He simply went there to show them that their beliefs didn't make sense.

-- Why Sikhs go to Gurdwara ?



You can probably go to the gurdwara those sandals are today and ask them the history.

-----i m sure they will tell me the same story; i m asking proof from other sources than the Sikh's claim . Muslim don't enter mosque with shoes , they remove it before entering. So , keep sandals of a Sikh Guru inside the holiest mosque is illogical.


Pl. try to understand------ I m not writing this to hurt ur feelings....... trying to explain the matter logically.

You are undermining God if you think you know the truth.

---nope . God sent Prophets ( pbut ) & holy books to teach us that God is only One , worship one God only ----that's the TRUTH...very simple :statisfie


Why Sikhs pray like this '' I seek refuse in Guru.......Ji's sword ' ??? Why don't u pray to God directly ? Seek refuse other than God is blasphemy / a major sin.

With God's grace, anyone who is meant to be spiritual meets a true Sikh.

---where I live , there is no Sikh. What do u suggest for me ?

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

u r in an Islamic forum . So , i thought u might be interested to learn more about Islam , specially to remove ur misconceptions.

No actually, I started posting only because someone on a Sikh site mentioned that they were discussing Sikhi at this site.

-- Why Sikhs go to Gurdwara ?

You can probably go to the gurdwara those sandals are today and ask them the history.

-----i m sure they will tell me the same story; i m asking proof from other sources than the Sikh's claim . Muslim don't enter mosque with shoes , they remove it before entering. So , keep sandals of a Sikh Guru inside the holiest mosque is illogical.

Does it say he took the sandals inside the Mosque?

---nope . God sent Prophets ( pbut ) & holy books to teach us that God is only One , worship one God only ----that's the TRUTH...very simple :statisfie

Well that's simply your belief. Sorry to say this but I am not convinced at all.

Why Sikhs pray like this '' I seek refuse in Guru.......Ji's sword ' ???

I am not sure what you are referring to here...

---where I live , there is no Sikh. What do u suggest for me ?

This site might be a good starting point...

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Don't you think God would be worried people questioning if he didn't worry about people question why he created them? What you are talking about is also called karma. A Sikh is above that as he already has controlled vices.

First of all, God doesn't need to worry. Second, now that we're created - we obey Allaah, and our purpose of life is to obey Him over the other ways of life.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial]The Noble Qur'an - Az-Zaariyaat 51:56[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial]And I (Allâh) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).[/FONT]

Whatever has negative outcome is wrong and whatever has positive outcome is right. But I know God hasn't appointed anybody as a watch dog to watch what people are.

Telling people to give up on dealing drugs can lead to harm. Does that mean it's wrong? Joining a party of people who do wrong yet accept you as a friend might lead to good according to the person's understanding, does that mean it's right?

If their not, then that means anyone can interpret anything according to their own will and say their doing the right thing. Which is the reason for corruption on the earth.


If you say that Allaah has sent no one as a 'watcher' over the earth - then that mean's you reject the concept of messengers and prophets of God right? Doesn't that go against your own religion?

How do you believe God revealed Himself to Mohammad Sahib? Was it through a spirit or some other ways?

Angel Jibreel [Gabriel] who came to other prophets too.

I am not even good enough to be a Sikh wanna-be. I know I will never meet God, at least this time around but I do know that we have is much better than what some of the other religions could.

You avoided my question about 're-uniting' with God, how can that be better if it doesn't make sense? And how is that better if a person is saying things about God which say that God isn't complete?

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Guru Nanak Dev Ji went to various places to show them the truth. He also went to a Hindu place called Hardwar. There he saw people throwing water towards Sun thinking they were worshiping Sun. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started throwing water towards Punjab, which happened to be in the other direction. The Hindus asked him why he was throwing water in the other direction. He told them that he was irrigating his fields in Punjab. They told him that water could never reach Punjab. He asked him if the water couldn't reach Punjab, how could it reach the Sun, which is much father than Punjab? He simply went there to show them that their beliefs didn't make sense.

We agree, the sun isn't worthy of worship - rather the Creator of it is.

He simply wanted to show them the truth...

I thought people just become guided if they meet a sikhi?

You are undermining God if you think you know the truth.

No disrespect, but that can be said about even sikhi's then, even the guru's because they claim to know the truth.

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

First of all, God doesn't need to worry. Second, now that we're created - we obey Allaah, and our purpose of life is to obey Him over the other ways of life.

Apparently, God doesn't need to worry. Then why would you say that people would question if God threw some people in hell and others in heaven? Once we have controlled vices, we automatically start obeying God. This obeying as per religion is only good until we have not controlled vices. But even when we think we are obeying as per what religion says, we might be committing sins as there are a lot of religious rituals that are inhumane.

Telling people to give up on dealing drugs can lead to harm. Does that mean it's wrong? Joining a party of people who do wrong yet accept you as a friend might lead to good according to the person's understanding, does that mean it's right?

Dealing drugs lead to harm, period. So it can't be right. No you don't wanna be friends with people who do wrong things because wrong things lead to doing more wrong.

If their not, then that means anyone can interpret anything according to their own will and say their doing the right thing. Which is the reason for corruption on the earth.

With time, we are getting more and more humane laws. Some of the religious laws are very wrong and inhumane. Of course, there is no perfect system.

If you say that Allaah has sent no one as a 'watcher' over the earth - then that mean's you reject the concept of messengers and prophets of God right? Doesn't that go against your own religion?

Gurus simply preached the truth. They never really forced anything onto anyone. They respected all people's right to live as they wished.

Angel Jibreel [Gabriel] who came to other prophets too.

Once again, not familiar with Angel Gabriel. But was it the angel's spirit that revealed God to Mohammad Sahib or was it something else. How is Angel Gabriel associated with God?

You avoided my question about 're-uniting' with God, how can that be better if it doesn't make sense? And how is that better if a person is saying things about God which say that God isn't complete?

No, nobody is saying God isn't complete. But those who get united with God become complete.

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

I thought people just become guided if they meet a sikhi?

Some people have ability to recognize a saint. Others meets saints through dialog.

No disrespect, but that can be said about even sikhi's then, even the guru's because they claim to know the truth.

Gurus simply expressed the truth and from their writing we determine that they knew about God. But if i said I knew the truth about God based upon my perception, then I would be undermining God.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Dealing drugs lead to harm, period. So it can't be right. No you don't wanna be friends with people who do wrong things because wrong things lead to doing more wrong.

No offense but he brought up a good point and you presented a very weak argument.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Apparently, God doesn't need to worry. Then why would you say that people would question if God threw some people in hell and others in heaven? Once we have controlled vices, we automatically start obeying God. This obeying as per religion is only good until we have not controlled vices. But even when we think we are obeying as per what religion says, we might be committing sins as there are a lot of religious rituals that are inhumane.

Dealing drugs lead to harm, period. So it can't be right. No you don't wanna be friends with people who do wrong things because wrong things lead to doing more wrong.

You said this:

Whatever has negative outcome is wrong and whatever has positive outcome is right. But I know God hasn't appointed anybody as a watch dog to watch what people are.

And i said:

Telling people to give up on dealing drugs can lead to harm. Does that mean it's wrong? Joining a party of people who do wrong yet accept you as a friend might lead to good according to the person's understanding, does that mean it's right?

So according to that person's understanding, they think their doing the right thing. Because their making friends.


That's why God sends us messengers, so we have a solid and firm framework.

With time, we are getting more and more humane laws. Some of the religious laws are very wrong and inhumane. Of course, there is no perfect system.

So why does God allow us to wander around without any perfect laws? (According to your beliefs.) Also this mean's you don't really believe that your religion is perfect right? Which mean's according to you it's not the true way of life?

Gurus simply preached the truth. They never really forced anything onto anyone. They respected all people's right to live as they wished.

How about the hereafter, isn't that important for the other people? Isn't it important to care about the consequences of others? If that's not the case - doesn't that show a lack of wanting 'what you want for your brother what you want for yourself'?

Once again, not familiar with Angel Gabriel. But was it the angel's spirit that revealed God to Mohammad Sahib or was it something else. How is Angel Gabriel associated with God?

Angels don't disobey Allaah, and Angel Gabriel conveyed the message of Allaah to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him.) And also helped other prophets to strengthen them. Prophets are humans afterall.

No, nobody is saying God isn't complete. But those who get united with God become complete.

But being with God mean's the person becomes God right? Maybe you could clarify what the person does when they 're-unite' with God?

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Some people have ability to recognize a saint. Others meets saints through dialog.

So only a specific group of people can? How about everyone else?

Gurus simply expressed the truth and from their writing we determine that they knew about God. But if i said I knew the truth about God based upon my perception, then I would be undermining God.

But you just said earlier that it's undermining God and part of ego to say that you know God? Which is sinful?

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Apparently, there are a lot of differences in way we perceive things. So, it's going to be difficult for us to understand each other.

You said this:
And i said:

So according to that person's understanding, they think their doing the right thing. Because their making friends.

We need to look at the net effect of every action. For example, since drugs are bad, then es dealing drugs is bad. If making friends with wrong is going to lead to do something wrong, then yes making friends with them is bad as well. But if making friends with so-called bad people is going to have positive effect on them, then yes making friends with them is a good thing. I hope you understand.

That's why God sends us messengers, so we have a solid and firm framework.

I am not convinced that all people thought of as prophets were really sent by God. You really have to compare their preachings with humanity. If there preaching can cause people to behave in an inhumane manner, then yes they are not sent by God.

So why does God allow us to wander around without any perfect laws? (According to your beliefs.) Also this mean's you don't really believe that your religion is perfect right? Which mean's according to you it's not the true way of life?

This is where the difference is. Once you have properly controlled vices, you will not need to follow any laws. You will automatically become a moral and ethical person. Sikhi is all about controlling vices first. Sikhi did make any laws to be force onto people. If anything, we are supposed to correct ourselves from within.

How about the hereafter, isn't that important for the other people? Isn't it important to care about the consequences of others? If that's not the case - doesn't that show a lack of wanting 'what you want for your brother what you want for yourself'?

If you knew for sure that what you had was the right thing, then yes it would make sense. But you don't for sure yourself if what you have is the right thing, then it becomes immoral to encourage someone else to have the same thing.

Angels don't disobey Allaah, and Angel Gabriel conveyed the message of Allaah to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him.) And also helped other prophets to strengthen them. Prophets are humans afterall.

The main issue here was how the angel conveyed God's message to the prophets, if that's true. Did he convey the message through spirit or did he use another way to convey the message?

But being with God mean's the person becomes God right? Maybe you could clarify what the person does when they 're-unite' with God?

No that's not what it means. My assumption is that being with God means there is a two-way direct communication between God and the person.

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

So only a specific group of people can? How about everyone else?

Only the blessed ones.

But you just said earlier that it's undermining God and part of ego to say that you know God? Which is sinful?

Like I said. It would sinful for me to say that I know the truth as I simply depend on my own perception of gurus writing. But if someone for sure has direct communication with God, then it would clearly show in their writings and it wouldn't be a sin. I am sure nobody here has direct communication with God. So it doesn't make sense for anybody to say that they know the truth as they are simply basing this on their perception of religion.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Apparently, there are a lot of differences in way we perceive things. So, it's going to be difficult for us to understand each other.

I understand.

We need to look at the net effect of every action. For example, since drugs are bad, then es dealing drugs is bad. If making friends with wrong is going to lead to do something wrong, then yes making friends with them is bad as well. But if making friends with so-called bad people is going to have positive effect on them, then yes making friends with them is a good thing. I hope you understand.

Cali dude, seriosly - the only reason i seem to drag on this argument is because i feel that you want to do the same whenever you want to attack islaam. Otherwise this whole argument would be over since the beginning of our discussion.

But anyway, yeah i know - that's part of islaam too. Maybe you've never read the Qur'an, but the main message of islaam is to enjoin the ties of kinship, to help the needy, to pay the poor and benefit others. To have good manners, morals etc. The rule is to take the lesser of the two evils.

I am not convinced that all people thought of as prophets were really sent by God. You really have to compare their preachings with humanity. If there preaching can cause people to behave in an inhumane manner, then yes they are not sent by God.

I agree, all people claiming to be prophets weren't. That's common sense. However, those who were true prophets came with clear proofs which no-one except a true prophet could replicate.

This is where the difference is. Once you have properly controlled vices, you will not need to follow any laws. You will automatically become a moral and ethical person. Sikhi is all about controlling vices first. Sikhi did make any laws to be force onto people. If anything, we are supposed to correct ourselves from within.

Your physical actions affect your heart. So by doing good deeds in order to please God, and by doing righteous actions in obedience to God. That will help the person to remain moral and remain steadfast upon that. If a person gives up on it, then can lead to immorality once again because the person forgets that God is aware of their actions.

If you knew for sure that what you had was the right thing, then yes it would make sense. But you don't for sure yourself if what you have is the right thing, then it becomes immoral to encourage someone else to have the same thing.

The main issue here was how the angel conveyed God's message to the prophets, if that's true. Did he convey the message through spirit or did he use another way to convey the message?

Angels can speak so they can convey the message to the prophet directly. I don't know if they have spirits or not.

No that's not what it means. My assumption is that being with God means there is a two-way direct communication between God and the person.

How does the person do that after they leave this world?



Regards.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

I thought people just become guided if they meet a sikhi?
.

They did, once they met Guru Nanak - He was the first Sikh!

 

[One Man Army]

Re: do you think i should?

bhai Gurdaas jees vaars are authentic. everything written about Guru Sahibs travels to mecca are correct.

The Whole of the Guru Granth Sahib jee is about God. i wouldnt know which lines to pick as you have asked...

il do a random shabad selection, this ones for you, muslimswomen!

Aasaa, Fifth Mehla:
Your Name is Ambrosial Nectar, O Lord Master; Your humble servant drinks in this supreme elixir.
The fearful load of sins from countless incarnations has vanished; doubt and duality are also dispelled. ||1||
I live by beholding the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan.
Listening to Your Words, O True Guru, my mind and body are cooled and soothed. ||1||Pause||
By Your Grace, I have joined the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; You Yourself have caused this to happen.
Holding fast to Your Feet, O God, the poison is easily neutralized. ||2||
Your Name, O God, is the treasure of peace; I have received this everlasting Mantra.
Showing His Mercy, the True Guru has given it to me, and my fever and pain and hatred are annulled. ||3||
Blessed is the attainment of this human body, by which God blends Himself with me.
Blessed, in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, is the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, where the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung.O Nanak, the Naam is my only Support. ||4||8||47||


thats especially for muslimswomen! one random shabad selected for yourself! ;-)

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Cali dude, seriosly - the only reason i seem to drag on this argument is because i feel that you want to do the same whenever you want to attack islaam. Otherwise this whole argument would be over since the beginning of our discussion.

Attack Islam? Truth is higher than all, including all religions. Nobody needs to disrespect or respect Islam. If there are flaws in Islam, they will show up themselves and there are none, they won't. Nobody really needs to attack Islam. Simply tell the absolute truth about Islam and let people decide whether it's right or wrong. If it weren't because of the sell-outs, we wouldn't even have this discussion. I am not interested in Islam at all, attacking or fighting for it.

I agree, all people claiming to be prophets weren't. That's common sense. However, those who were true prophets came with clear proofs which no-one except a true prophet could replicate.

When you say replicate, do you mean copying or do you mean re-producing having no knowledge of it beforehand?

Your physical actions affect your heart. So by doing good deeds in order to please God, and by doing righteous actions in obedience to God. That will help the person to remain moral and remain steadfast upon that. If a person gives up on it, then can lead to immorality once again because the person forgets that God is aware of their actions.

Well that's true but the problem here is that most people only satisfy themselves. They believe in good and bad only based upon their own beliefs and personality. So an action that is perceived as good among people around them satisfies them, make them feel good inside. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's pleasing God. There are even some of the religious practices that are immoral. So just being religious nobody can claim that he is pleasing God.

The only way to know for sure that we are doing to right thing is by controlling five vices and acting upon your instinct.

Angels can speak so they can convey the message to the prophet directly. I don't know if they have spirits or not.

Until you find another medium, we are going to assume it was through spirit

How does the person do that after they leave this world?

Once the soul is connected, it stays connected with or without this body.

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Attack Islam? Truth is higher than all, including all religions. Nobody needs to disrespect or respect Islam. If there are flaws in Islam, they will show up themselves and there are none, they won't. Nobody really needs to attack Islam. Simply tell the absolute truth about Islam and let people decide whether it's right or wrong. If it weren't because of the sell-outs, we wouldn't even have this discussion. I am not interested in Islam at all, attacking or fighting for it.

Truth can't be truth if it has flaws.

When you say replicate, do you mean copying or do you mean re-producing having no knowledge of it beforehand?

I mean copying and also performing with or without having knowledge beforehand. As only prophets can perform it, even if a previous true prophet did something similar in the past.

Well that's true but the problem here is that most people only satisfy themselves. They believe in good and bad only based upon their own beliefs and personality. So an action that is perceived as good among people around them satisfies them, make them feel good inside. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's pleasing God. There are even some of the religious practices that are immoral. So just being religious nobody can claim that he is pleasing God.

But someone who doesn't have a firm set of laws which define good and bad can't say that their pleasing God either. Because they'll always be in a state of doubt.

The only way to know for sure that we are doing to right thing is by controlling five vices and acting upon your instinct.

Only five? And how about instinct, maybe i feel that my instincts are right whereas someone else disagrees with that? What if i had a good intention but the other guy thought i did the wrong thing? My instinct was good, but because the other person had another culture - they hated what i did.

So what am i supposed to do?

Until you find another medium, we are going to assume it was through spirit

We use proof for what we say, hence unless there's proof otherwise - then i will stick to my understanding that it was the angel himself who came down. I don't need to argue whether the angel had a spirit/soul or not.

Once the soul is connected, it stays connected with or without this body.

Where does it be? Does it be a soul which floats around nowhere but having contact with God? What does it do while having that contact, and why does it need that contact?

 

[cali dude]

Re: So I've finally converted to Islam

Truth can't be truth if it has flaws.

Of course!!!

I mean copying and also performing with or without having knowledge beforehand. As only prophets can perform it, even if a previous true prophet did something similar in the past.

OK I guess...

But someone who doesn't have a firm set of laws which define good and bad can't say that their pleasing God either. Because they'll always be in a state of doubt.

Once you have controlled vices, all doubts are expelled.

Only five? And how about instinct, maybe i feel that my instincts are right whereas someone else disagrees with that? What if i had a good intention but the other guy thought i did the wrong thing? My instinct was good, but because the other person had another culture - they hated what i did.

So what am i supposed to do?

I have thought of this as well that there's gotta be more than five vices. As far as I can see five vices cover everything. Maybe your understanding is different than what I am talking about regarding vices.

We use proof for what we say, hence unless there's proof otherwise - then i will stick to my understanding that it was the angel himself who came down. I don't need to argue whether the angel had a spirit/soul or not.

But then how would you prove that it was an angel?

Where does it be? Does it be a soul which floats around nowhere but having contact with God? What does it do while having that contact, and why does it need that contact?

There is a concept of "jyoti jyot samaana" meaning flame merging with flame. As far as I understand what it refers to is soul merging into God's spirit. It's like if put two candles together the flames merge into each other and nobody can tell the difference.