DISCUSSION: The Origin of the Universe

[Dahir]

NOTE: This subject is 100% open. I call upon all minds and moderators to join this thread and open our minds to your knowledge of the origin of the universe. I also would like to hear comments from non-Muslims on their views on the origin of the universe.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Why must we assume that the universe had an origin. Shouldn't we start by considering that it may have always been?

 

[Avicenna]

Why must we assume that the universe had an origin. Shouldn't we start by considering that it may have always been?

An assertion with no logical justification is a fallacy. You are another victim of this, my friend.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Why must we assume that the universe had an origin. Shouldn't we start by considering that it may have always been?

Of course this is a possibility that must be entertained. However the common response to the notion of an eternally-existent universe points out the problem of infinite time. To be specific, if the universe has existed for an infinite period of time prior to our existence then an infinite period of time must have elapsed before our existence. Yet an infinite period of time cannot elapse just as an inifinite flight of stairs can never be ascended, nor a distance of infinite lenght crossed. Reductio ad absurdum.

Peace!

 

[Umar001]

Why must we assume that the universe had an origin. Shouldn't we start by considering that it may have always been?

I thought science had already disproved the "steady-state theory"?

 

[Woodrow]

Why must we assume that the universe had an origin. Shouldn't we start by considering that it may have always been?

My limited knowledge and studies tend to indicate that the universe had a definite physical starting location and has been expanding from that location since creation. If it had been always in existance it seems that all matter would be so far spread that no stars would be in view. Yet, there is no point we can look and not see stars, true it will take a telescope to see them but the light from them is still close enough for us to detect. Since we are expanding, expansion for an infinite period of time would result in all objects being an infinite distance apart and that is not the case.

 

[muzna]

i thought the big bang theory was still considered?
that the universe was a central hot mass.
what happened to the Big Crunch theory..
(whatever was i taught in AL physics????!!!!)

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i thought the big bang theory was still considered?
that the universe was a central hot mass.
what happened to the Big Crunch theory..
(whatever was i taught in AL physics????!!!!)

big crunch theory? lol enlighten me seriously i havent heard of this

 

[muzna]

well...we were taught that if the big bang theory is justifiable, then there would be a big crunch where the whole universe comes together to form the hot mass is started with..but wait..i think there were three theories regardig the universe, the open theory, closed theory and something else..my memory is rusty

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

well...we were taught that if the big bang theory is justifiable, then there would be a big crunch where the whole universe comes together to form the hot mass is started with..but wait..i think there were three theories regardig the universe, the open theory, closed theory and something else..my memory is rusty

ye that sounds about right becoz the heavens and the earth was joined in order to create what we see today i believe. im sure a knowledgable brother will quote some quran

 

[muzna]

oh...i waas speaking about what is said in scientific circles..i think islamically its all baloney.
Didnt God draw the heavens and the earth? please correct me if i'm wrong
peace

 

[lolwatever]

Why must we assume that the universe had an origin. Shouldn't we start by considering that it may have always been?

erm that goes against one of the basics of physics.. everything has a cause... cause and effect :uuh:

lol but srsly this thread... isnt there ne1.. joe98? to get this therad rolling the above comment is just funny (even to n athiest probably )

 

[Malaikah]

the open theory, closed theory and something else..my memory is rusty

thats right, depending on the density of the universe there are three possible paths it might take:

1. big crunch- the universe has a high enough density to over come the expansion and start to contract back into itself

2. the density is too low so it will continue to expand

3. the density is just right for it to just remain expanding, but at a pretty slow rate.

they are all of course, just theories

 

[Malaikah]

oh...i waas speaking about what is said in scientific circles..i think islamically its all baloney.
Didnt God draw the heavens and the earth? please correct me if i'm wrong
peace

lol what? draw??

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol what? draw??

she means "braught together"

 

[muzna]

not really..i meant draw..in islam class i heard the teacher say once that Allah created the pen first and He drew the heavens and the earth..is this true?

 

[- Qatada -]

I think the pen writ everything that would happen till the day of judgement sister. Allaah Almighty know's best.

Ibn Abi Hatim recorded from Al-Walid bin `Ubadah bin As-Samit that he said, "My father called for me when he was dying and he said to me: `Verily, I heard the Messenger of Allah say,

«إِنَّ أَوَّلَ مَا خَلَقَ اللهُ الْقَلَمُ فَقَالَ لَهُ: اكْتُبْ، قَالَ: يَا رَبِّ وَمَا أَكْتُبُ؟ قَالَ: اكْتُبِ الْقَدَرَ وَمَا هُوَ كَائِنٌ إِلَى الْأَبَد»



(Verily, the first of what Allah created was the Pen, and He said to it: "Write.'' The Pen said: "O my Lord, what shall I write'' He said: "Write the decree and whatever will throughout eternity.'')'' This Hadith has been recorded by Imam Ahmad through various routes of transmission.


[At-Tirmidhi also recorded it from a Hadith of Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi and he (At-Tirmidhi) said about it, "Hasan Sahih, Gharib.'']​

Writing: this is the belief that Allaah has written the decrees concerning all created beings in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz. The evidence for that is the verse in which He says (interpretation of the meaning):


“Know you not that Allaah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily, it is (all) in the Book (al-Lawh al-Mahfooz). Verily, that is easy for Allaah”

[al-Hajj 22:16]



And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah wrote the decrees concerning all created beings fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and the earth.” Narrated by Muslim, 2653. ​

Belief of Ahl al-Sunnah concerning al-Qada’ wa’l-Qadar (Divine Will and Decree)
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=49004&ln=eng&txt=qadr
​

:salamext:

 

[lolwatever]

musawwir also mean 'designer'...

i was talkin with dudette the otherday n i showed him this cool 2D to 3D thing... dudette u still got the link lol?

remember z-depth is just a dimension just like time is... only Allah knows what existance is like beyond the universe... and furtehrmore, only Allah knows how this universe was created along with the dimensions that we are confined in. we'll wait n learn in jannah i guess

 

[muzna]

I think the pen writ everything that would happen till the day of judgement sister. Allaah Almighty know's best.

Writing: this is the belief that Allaah has written the decrees concerning all created beings in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz. The evidence for that is the verse in which He says (interpretation of the meaning):


“Know you not that Allaah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily, it is (all) in the Book (al-Lawh al-Mahfooz). Verily, that is easy for Allaah”

[al-Hajj 22:16]



And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah wrote the decrees concerning all created beings fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and the earth.” Narrated by Muslim, 2653. ​

Belief of Ahl al-Sunnah concerning al-Qada’ wa’l-Qadar (Divine Will and Decree)
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=49004&ln=eng&txt=qadr
​

:salamext:

jazakallah khair bro

 

[Pygoscelis]

An assertion with no logical justification is a fallacy. You are another victim of this, my friend.

I made no claim, so your statement is false. I merely stated that an assumption was made in the question in the opening post and underscored that assumption. It is meaningless to ask the origin of the universe if there isn't one.

Yet an infinite period of time cannot elapse just as an inifinite flight of stairs can never be ascended, nor a distance of infinite lenght crossed. Reductio ad absurdum.

That is not absurd by definition. It just doesn't resonate with you. Why can't time be infinite? What makes you think it is finite? Your answer sounds to me like the theist who says God clearly exists or the atheist who says God clearly Doesn't. It is a claim without any stated basis.

Since we are expanding, expansion for an infinite period of time would result in all objects being an infinite distance apart and that is not the case.

That is a good point and may indeed be evidence of an origin. It is the best argument against an infinite universe that there is I think. But that of course assumes that the universe has always been expanding and has not been pulsating or didn't start expanding at some point (and no I don't know either to be the case).

erm that goes against one of the basics of physics.. everything has a cause... cause and effect

That we exist is evidence that your statement is untrue. SOMETHING had to always exist be it the universe or whatever (perhaps a God?) caused the universe. By assigning the universe a cause you only force the question of who or what caused that cause.