Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

[paarsurrey]

Wellcome here..​

Question:Why is it so difficult for the Muslims to believe that Christ was crucified to erase our sins? Why do they reject the idea of the Crucifixion altogether?
Answer:There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen.
Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.
which indicates their confusion
At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?
islamicfajr

Hi
I have to support brother islamicfajr that Jesus never died on Cross and the Christians have all but confusion regarding the event of Crucifixion. The Christians friends should rethink over the issue rationally and they should also seek guidance in prayers from GodAllahYHWH in the matter, then they would come to know the truth. Even if Jesus would have died on Cross as our Christian brothers think; what relation has it got with the sin? It has absolutely no relationship. The cure of sins lies in the repentance of the person and his resolve not to do it again and askance of forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH, and its acceptance by GodAllahYHWH, who has all the authority to forgive and no other human being is involved in that process.
This entire concept, please don’t be angry and let me say, is based on a fallacy and not on rational thinking.
For instance if a person A loves B and B has a headache and tell A that I have a headache and instead of arranging some medicine for B; A lifts a stone and blast his own head with it. Would that be an action of sanity on the part of A? No, never.
Jesus was ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH a perfect wise man of God, he could never think of doing such suicidal action; and that for others and for what benefit to them. This concept is a brain child of Paul, be sure my friend. Beware of Paul my dear Christians friends! Jesus would deny having said it to anybody.
In a way JesusYeshuaIssa himself explained the process of alleviation of sins when he promised to show the Sign of Jonah.
1. Jonah prayed to GodAllahYHWH in the belly of the fish and his prayer/repentance was accepted by Him without any sacrifice any human being and he save his life.
2. People of Nineveh did not accept Jonah and insisted on remaining sinful and Jonah returned in anguish. Late, they realized their mistake asked repentance/forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH and they were forgiven, no need of any human sacrifice.
May GodAllahYHWH bless all Christian and Muslim friends here on this forum.
Thanks
I am from a peaceful faith working for unity of all revealed religions with peaceful means.

 

[duskiness]

I have to support brother islamicfajr that Jesus never died on Cross

we know that, this is your beliefe.

and the Christians have all but confusion regarding the event of Crucifixion.

we also have heard this...

The Christians friends should rethink over the issue rationally and they should also seek guidance in prayers from GodAllahYHWH in the matter, then they would come to know the truth.

You see Paarsurrey, the problem is that your Christian friends, after some thinking and praying, have come to conclusion that their faith is true (or "true"). We feel about it just as you feel about Islam.

Even if Jesus would have died on Cross as our Christian brothers think; what relation has it got with the sin? It has absolutely no relationship. The cure of sins lies in the repentance of the person and his resolve not to do it again and askance of forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH, and its acceptance by GodAllahYHWH, who has all the authority to forgive and no other human being is involved in that process.
This entire concept, please don’t be angry and let me say, is based on a fallacy and not on rational thinking.
For instance if a person A loves B and B has a headache and tell A that I have a headache and instead of arranging some medicine for B; A lifts a stone and blast his own head with it. Would that be an action of sanity on the part of A? No, never.

that's a bit different subject. Of course you know that for us there IS a connection between sin and HIS death?

Jesus was ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH a perfect wise man of God, he could never think of doing such suicidal action; and that for others and for what benefit to them.

Maybe if He was just a man, you would be right

This concept is a brain child of Paul, be sure my friend. Beware of Paul my dear Christians friends! Jesus would deny having said it to anybody.

the story about evil Paul is also well known on this boards. Can I ask what would exactly Jesus deny saying?

In a way JesusYeshuaIssa himself explained the process of alleviation of sins when he promised to show the Sign of Jonah.
1. Jonah prayed to GodAllahYHWH in the belly of the fish and his prayer/repentance was accepted by Him without any sacrifice any human being and he save his life.
2. People of Nineveh did not accept Jonah and insisted on remaining sinful and Jonah returned in anguish. Late, they realized their mistake asked repentance/forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH and they were forgiven, no need of any human sacrifice.

Our interpretation os sing of Jonah is different. Jonah was in this fish for 3 day and after this he was set free - "came back to life". Jesus was dead for 3 days and then He resurrected.

May GodAllahYHWH bless all Christian and Muslim friends here on this forum.

here we both agree. I think we should also ask Him to bless "our" non- Muslims/Christians

 

[Muslim Woman]

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


%%

I'm here ....let me check it...since June. Something like 5 months :uuh: . And today i'm tired.


I'm also tried both physically and mentally, what probably also plays it role..but right now I'm tried of being Christian on LI


As much as like LI and you all, I'm tired of being "called to blackboard" and being "proved" what an idiot i must be believing in Christ.
So i'm taking holidays from forum.

All the best to you all! you are really a great bunch of people! I hope i will be back sometime in the future.

Till then!
natalia

I did not read the whole post or the other related posts . My quick thought about ur frustration as a Christians in an Islamic forum.

I m a Muslim & i m also furstrated here . I see few non-Muslims are regualarly writing that Muhammed (p) is a false Prophet . Can u feel my pain ? Do u think , i should also take '' holidays from forum ''? :uuh:

 

[yahyazakarya]

MAhse'Allah brother islamicfajr
thank u thank u baraka Allahu fik

wa assalam

 

[islamicfajr]

hi , duskiness

i think if u read these theards the pic 'll be clear 4 u....

The True Message of Jesus Christ

Christ in Islam

and if u turth seeker.. here ..Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue.......

“Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free” John 8:31 – (NIV)

....................

n here :Unique Features of Islaam

peace,

islamicfajr

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Can you provide a verse reference in the Quran that explicitly says Gabriel is the Holy Spirit?

Useful links:

What is the Holy Spirit?


Pavao - United States

Question: I am a new Muslim convert, and having come from a Christian family. I am still very much confused about the Holy spirit issue.




I know that the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an in Surahs 2:87, 2:253, 5:110, and 16:102. And, the Bible makes it a requirement to believe in the Holy Spirit, in order to enter Heaven (the context of John 3: 4-6).

Can you shed some light upon this issue for me?



&&

Muslim Christian Dialogue

H. M. Baagil, M.D.


http://www.iad.org/books/MCD.html

M. ……What is the Holy Spirit?



C. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost and is also God. We are taught that the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Ghost is God. We are not allowed to say Three Gods, but One God.


M. Read Matthew 1:18.


C. "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."



M. Compare this with Luke 1:26-27.

C. "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary."


M. In Jesus' miraculous birth Matthew mentioned the Holy Ghost and Luke mentioned the angel Gabriel. What is the Holy Ghost?


C. That being the case, the Holy Ghost is the angel Gabriel.

%%%


Surah 16. The Bee


Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

 

[duskiness]

I did not read the whole post or the other related posts . My quick thought about ur frustration as a Christians in an Islamic forum.

I m a Muslim & i m also furstrated here . I see few non-Muslims are regualarly writing that Muhammed (p) is a false Prophet . Can u feel my pain ? Do u think , i should also take '' holidays from forum ''? :uuh:

Hi Muslim Woman. my post, to which you were referred to, was written in November. I took my "holidays" (even longer than I wanted...) and I'm back
if you feel frustration than taking a break from any forum is a good idea. To discus anything one should have calm head & heart and be able to give everyone benefit of doubt. I knew I couldn't do it, so I left.
If you are also thinking about it, just remember to COME BACK

 

[Grace Seeker]

While there are more points that we have in common than many people might at first think, whether it is the Crucifixion or the Holy Sprit or even the very nature of God there are many important points on which Christians and Muslims disagree simply because the teachings of our respective books of scripture are not in harmony with one another. Thus, if one is converting from one to the other, I would think you would not care what the view of the former was and it should be sufficient to learn from one's new faith what its teachings are. However, if one wants to compare, I would suggest that one not ask a Muslim to explain the Christian understanding of these things anymore than one would ask a Christian to explain the Muslim understanding of jihad.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Grace Seeker: I would suggest that one not ask a Muslim to explain the Christian understanding of these things anymore than one would ask a Christian to explain the Muslim understanding of jihad.

----haha, good point :smile:

but what about informing others without being rude ?

duskiness: To discus anything one should have calm head & heart and be able to give everyone benefit of doubt. I knew I couldn't do it, so I left.


---I have noticed in this forum & other forum that Christians are complaining how Muslims hurt their feelings by telling them that Jesus (p) is not God.


It surprises me a bit 'cause though we don't worship Jesus (p) , we do respect him & Mother Mary (p) & it's the part of our faith.

Do not believe in Jesus's (p) death on the Cross does not give us right to say any nasty things against him . It's a must for us to respect him.No one can remain as a Muslim if s/he does not believe in the virgin birth when many Christians don't believe in it anymore.



Do Christians complain against other faiths who don't believe in Jesus (p) & Mary (p) ? May be , they are sending them to hell when Muslim believe that both the Mother Mary (p) & Jesus (p) will be in Paradise forever. kay:



I suggest that if my Christians bro & sisters keep these in mind , then may be it will be easy for them to tolerate Muslims :giggling: in any Islamic forums or elsewhere. & won't have to leave the forum anymore ( hopefully )


duskiness : I took my "holidays" (even longer than I wanted...) and I'm back


---welcome to the forum kay:
did u join in other forum where u belonged to majority?

If you are also thinking about it, just remember to COME BACK

--thank u :thankyou:

 

[NoName55]

Hi
I have to support brother islamicfajr that Jesus never died on Cross ......................

That is not quite what you really believe is it now? (there is a lot more to it than meets the eye).