Dispatches - Lessons In Hate And Violence

[Reflections]

AsSalaamu Aalaykum Warahmatullah,

I watched the documentary on youtube, was a waste of time at some points. As usual, media is protraying Islam in a bad spot light, and finding some way or another to nit pick at things to make the biggest issue about.

The way that woman was talking as though the whole of UK runs in this certain way, we all beat the kids at the madaaris and we spoon feed them radical information etc subhanAllah.

I didn't agree with the way the teacher was hitting the kids, it was wrong, being violent towards children isn't the answer.. it is in actual fact cowardly.

Nevertheless, the doc was repeating itself, showing the same videos, bringing up the same people and as usual..being biased. Making it as though it was 'right' to go and spy on these places...it disgusts me...actually having people who go with hidden cameras and spy on them...that doesn't justify anything at all. It isn't the first time that has happened, but just comes to show...sometimes you have to be careful with who you can trust..they're not always who they say to show to be...

 

[Salahudeen]

I saw it and it brought back bad memories from my child hood of my Qur'an teacher asking me to stick my hand out so he could pound it with a wooden stick for not being able to pronounce the letter 'AYN properly. One day the whole class had to read Fatiha and every mistake made in the recitation equalled 1 smack on the hands. I remember coming home from school everyday and dread going there, I used to find any excuse I could to get out of it, I used to beg my mum not to send me, eventually she listened to me. In all fairness she did tell them not to hit me after the first few incidents but seeing my friends get beaten was not nice at all, I wanted out of there ASAP. I couldn't even understand him cos he didn't speak english, I tried telling him I have a speech problem and I'm visiting a speech therapist that's why I can't pronounce some of the letters properly but he didn't understand I think and thought I was just making excuses, Allah hu 'alam what he was thinking.

I see the teacher on the street sometimes and I give him dirty looks, my friends call him nasty names to his face, now that they're big and strong and can defend themselves. there was no explanation given about what I was even reading, just put in a building and told to learn a book I had no clue about.

I'm glad the violence that occurs in some children's Qur'an classes was exposed, this is not the right way to teach the Qur'an because the child will end up hating the book of Allah and his teacher. That man who was beating the children around made my blood boil, if he came infront of me I would not be able to control myself I think. I really hope such classes are moderated more by outside organisations or indivudals.

Children who are raised with violence enforce the same on the people around them I think.

The bit about Darul uloom, I feel they are just trying to make the muslims fight each other, a few years ago it was "Wahaaabi" Islam that they portrayed as the evil version of Islam and now they're portraying "Deobandi" Islam as a bad version of Islam, as if there is different versions of Islam??? There is only one Islam and I think they are trying to divide the Muslims and brain wash them to hate the people who studied the deen at such institutes just like they did a few years ago when they did the same with Green Lane masjid and so called "wahabi islam".

It's like a repilca of the programme they made a few years ago, except they replaced wahabi islam with "deobandi Islam" and Green lane with "Darul uloom" lol

 

[Maryan0]

Asalaamu Alaikum, It seems as though you have a very incorrect understanding of what a sect is. Deobandi, Salafi, brelvee, Sufi etc are not different sects as they are all Sunni but they follow slightly different stances especially in regards to Fiqhi matters but are all still trying to follow Qur'an and Sunnah. The only major sects in Islam are two and they are Sunni which is the vast majority and Shia which are a small minority.

When you say you are "opposed to" them then you should not oppose any Muslim just because they have minor differences to the stance you may follow. That way you are only creating sectarianism and seperatism in Islam.

We all follow the same fundamentals but differ in trivial matters and those trivial matters should not be a reason to "oppose" any group of Muslims apart from those who are clearly out of the fold of Islam like Qadianis and Ismailis etc.

May Allah unite this ummah. Ameen

I agree although I dont know much about a few that you mentioned. It seems we muslims make certain issues contentious when they really or not. I saw people arguing about whether Allah has hands or not based on some verses in the Quran an it became a pretty major argument:exhausted. Ameen to your dua.
Salam

 

[Maryan0]

I did not watch this Documentary but i'm glad I got hit in Quran classes. I believe you should fear your teacher. I would not have had the nerve to go up to my Quran teacher without knowing my lessons and that seems to be lost on a lot of kids today like my younger siblings. Certain teachers I have had were I think pretty evil and hit us because they enjoyed it and I resent those teachers while others were kind and only hit us on the hand when we deserved it. Abuse is not a part of Islam but discipline is.
Salam

 

[Asiyah3]

I couldn't agree more. It makes me sick. I don't know how they expect the kids to enjoy learning and to appreciate the value of what they're being taught if they're sitting there brandishing fists or a big fat stick. Violence against children is despicable and cowardly.

I totally agree.

 

[Salahudeen]

I did not watch this Documentary but i'm glad I got hit in Quran classes. I believe you should fear your teacher. I would not have had the nerve to go up to my Quran teacher without knowing my lessons and that seems to be lost on a lot of kids today like my younger siblings. Certain teachers I have had were I think pretty evil and hit us because they enjoyed it and I resent those teachers while others were kind and only hit us on the hand when we deserved it. Abuse is not a part of Islam but discipline is.
Salam

I feared my teacher so much I wished he was dead so he could stop making my life a misery. This is what I was thinking at 10 years of age. What do you mean you should fear your teacher? you must be a unique individual to be able to successfully learn in such an environment because I know the fear of my teacher caused me to lose all learning ability, rather than focusing on the material I was focusing on his stick and watching out for the next smack which would inevitablly come because I was so stressed I could not learn the material.

Do you think a child should be hit for making mistakes in his learning? Or are you coming from the angle of a child should be hit if he messes around in class?

 

[Maryan0]

I feared my teacher so much I wished he was dead so he could stop making my life a misery. This is what I was thinking at 10 years of age. What do you mean you should fear your teacher? you must be a unique individual to be able to successfully learn in such an environment because I know the fear of my teacher caused me to lose all learning ability, rather than focusing on the material I was focusing on his stick and watching out for the next smack which would inevitablly come because I was so stressed I could not learn the material.

Do you think a child should be hit for making mistakes in his learning? Or are you coming from the angle of a child should be hit if he messes around in class?

I believe you should fear your teacher in the sense that you will learn your quran on time and make it to class on time. My angle is discipline not learning difficulties. The teacher is there to teach so if he or she is hitting you because you are having difficulties learning than that is obviously wrong. Like I said earlier I have had some pretty sadistic teachers who hit us just to hit us and that is obviously wrong and unislamic and I very much resent those teachers to this day but I am not against hitting itself unless it goes overboard.
Salam

 

[Salahudeen]

I believe you should fear your teacher in the sense that you will learn your quran on time and make it to class on time. My angle is discipline not learning difficulties. The teacher is there to teach so if he or she is hitting you because you are having difficulties learning than that is obviously wrong. Like I said earlier I have had some pretty sadistic teachers who hit us just to hit us and that is obviously wrong and unislamic and I very much resent those teachers to this day but I am not against hitting itself unless it goes overboard.
Salam

I see where you're coming from, but I guess the question is who decides what is overboard and deserves a smack? Some people will say a child deserves a smack when he's cheeky to the teacher, other people will say he just needs telling off or detention so who decides what kind of behaviour in the classroom warrents a smack?

 

[Asiyah3]

I did not watch this Documentary but i'm glad I got hit in Quran classes. I believe you should fear your teacher. I would not have had the nerve to go up to my Quran teacher without knowing my lessons and that seems to be lost on a lot of kids today like my younger siblings. Certain teachers I have had were I think pretty evil and hit us because they enjoyed it and I resent those teachers while others were kind and only hit us on the hand when we deserved it. Abuse is not a part of Islam but discipline is.
Salam

It all depends on the way one has been raised. If the parents have beaten a small child everytime they've misbehaved, they will learn to act and change their ways by beating only. If you tell them to stop doing wrong or do something, they will not listen to you unless you shout, beat them or threaten to beat them.

Children should be taught to learn by communicating with them, not beating them mercilessly.

 

[Maryan0]

I see where you're coming from, but I guess the question is who decides what is overboard and deserves a smack? Some people will say a child deserves a smack when he's cheeky to the teacher, other people will say he just needs telling off or detention so who decides what kind of behaviour in the classroom warrents a smack?

I dont know, but I do know you shouldnt be ready with the smacking right away it doesnt solve everything.
Salam

 

[Maryan0]

It all depends on the way one has been raised. If the parents have beaten a small child everytime they've misbehaved, they will learn to act and change their ways by beating only. If you tell them to stop doing wrong or do something, they will not listen to you unless you shout, beat them or threaten to beat them.

Children should be taught to learn by communicating with them, not beating them mercilessly.

lol obviously sis. I'm not advocating beating your kids senseless. I believe I only got hit when I deserved it and Islam also advocates physical discipline in certain cases. Growing up maybe other things were more effective since I hated and I mean hated being grounded.
Salam

 

[GuestFellow]

I see where you're coming from, but I guess the question is who decides what is overboard and deserves a smack? Some people will say a child deserves a smack when he's cheeky to the teacher, other people will say he just needs telling off or detention so who decides what kind of behaviour in the classroom warrents a smack?

Salaam,

Well you cannot smack anyone in the face. I think teenagers should be caned if they mess about. Young children should not be beaten because they don't usually know the difference between right or wrong.

 

[Sigma]

btw ladies and gentleman, the mosque was actually a Barelwi mosque (Keighley Mosque). However, that is irrelevant to the main point of the program which is to highlight the abuse. Having said this, some of the documentary was repetitive at times.

 

[glo]

I for one am glad a programme like this was aired. I went to mosque where such practices were seen as the norm. It pushed me so far away from islam and many others 2. I saw things that will stay with me, and they werent nyc. People in the community should not cover up such disgusting things and think its ok. Its not. Its not ok to beat a child sensless. Where in islam does it say to beat a child whos under the age of 12 cos they fail to understand arabic ? or cant sit still for an hour ?? where ? there children for pity's sake. People who beat children are intellectually weak and cant relate to a child.


If a child gets the crap beaten out of them then how they gona be happy ?? It makes the child resent religion. I did wen i went to that place. Religion should be taught in a peaceful manner, put a child in a safe happy environment and they'll be eager to learn.

:wa:

Thank you for sharing.
I think your views were very much echoed by the 16-year-old lad who was attending the 'new-style-Madrasah' and who had been beaten in another school previously. He commented on how much more encouraging it was to learn in an atmosphere free from fear of punishment. The kids at that school looked so happy and so excited and eager to learn! :statisfie

I talked to a colleague muslimah about the programme today.
She told me that she pays for a private tutor, who comes to the house to teach her children about Islam. That way she knows for sure how and what he teaches.

 

[IslamicRevival]

Asalaamu Alaikum, It seems as though you have a very incorrect understanding of what a sect is. Deobandi, Salafi, brelvee, Sufi etc are not different sects as they are all Sunni but they follow slightly different stances especially in regards to Fiqhi matters but are all still trying to follow Qur'an and Sunnah.

I regard 'Salafi' as a sect and Sufi'ism is interlinked with Islam. I agree with you that Bralvi/Deobandi are not different sects, They're basically two schools of thought

May Allah unite this ummah. Ameen

Ameen, Thumma Ameen

How was it an attack on Islam?

When did i say it was an attack on Islam?

It exposed some pretty unpleasant practices, which go on in some (probably very few!) madrassahs here is the UK. To pretend that those things didn't happen - in the face of video footage and personal witness accounts - would be foolish.
It would be by far better for people to speak out against those things as unIslamic and wrong - as indeed many people in the programme, Muslims and non-Muslims did.

No one is pretending it didnt happen. When i was at Mosque [Some time ago] i too was disciplined [Within Liimits] I am aware the problem existed and i have condemned these practices from day one

 

[glo]

How was it an attack on Islam?

When did i say it was an attack on Islam?

In your opening post:

Has anyone seen the documentary?
What do you make of it..

Is it another attack on Islam

​

It exposed some pretty unpleasant practices, which go on in some (probably very few!) madrassahs here is the UK. To pretend that those things didn't happen - in the face of video footage and personal witness accounts - would be foolish.
It would be by far better for people to speak out against those things as unIslamic and wrong - as indeed many people in the programme, Muslims and non-Muslims did.

No one is pretending it didnt happen. When i was at Mosque [Some time ago] i too was disciplined [Within Liimits] I am aware the problem existed and i have condemned these practices from day one

We are in agreement then!

 

[GuestFellow]

^ He did not say it was an attack on Islam.

He said is it another attack on Islam?

 

[glo]

^ He did not say it was an attack on Islam.

He said is it another attack on Islam?

What a difference a question mark makes, eh?

Thank you for your comment, Guestfellow. I will wait for Lost Identity to clarify whether he meant his words as a question or a statement.

Lost Identity, I apologise if I have misunderstood you! It seems that we are pretty much in agreement on physical punishment of children. Salaam, brother.

 

[GuestFellow]

^ Well yes I suppose it is the question mark that is missing.

 

[جوري]

I didn't watch the program and have no interest to.. these programs are meant to put blinders on Christians and the likes so they'll keep on riding their wave of ignorance, self-satisfied in their worthless values.. that being said, I am not against corporal punishment in schools.. it was an institution in the west in years gone by perhaps if they re-implement it, you'd not be putting up alarms in schools and searching kids for guns, you wouldn't have so many teenage run away hook ers and the students would respect the teachers instead of the other way around!

all the best