Dispatches: The Muslim Reformation

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Hmmmmmmm seems like Tariq Ramadan isn't on most of your Eid card list
Then again some may believe that sending Eid cards is an innovation of the kuffar.

We don't hate him akhee.... we just don't like his works. May Allah guide us all and lead us to the haqq.
And by the way, you really don't want to spin this thread into an innovation discussion (trust me, I'VE BEEN THERE!).

 

[Noora_z3]

As salamu alaykum.

I have to say, I think I disagree with almost everyone here.

Salam.

Jazaa Allah, well said bro, I couldnt say it any better.
I did attend 2 of his talks wen he visited my Uni in Malaysia, He is a very intelligent man. I didnt agree with all that he said, some of his statments r controversial, but he got his evidences from the Quran n the Sunnah. Now its up to us to accept it ot refuse it.

agree with what you saying because, all the muslim youth interviewed not one acted like a proper muslim (i mean dress wise)
his Ijtihad or refuse it.

Oh this disturbed me too, we really..really need to stop judgin our Muslim brothers n sisters by look. Unity is wat we seek.

 

[Rabi'ya]

If tariq Ramadan wants to continue his work then who am i to say no i purely wish to say that i dont like his opinions...just because he has studied Quraan and Sunnah does not mean his opinions are correct. As you may know, you can read an ayah 10 times nd get a different meaning each time. Whos to say that the meaning Tariq Ramadan gets is the right one. perhaps it is one of the right ones - but he does not say that. he purely states his opinion. I accept he has studied alot and all respect to him for doing so.

i simply do not like his ways, thoughts and some of his actions.

anyhoo...not for me to judge....



Rabi'ya:rose:

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Exactly sis, that documentary was just messed up. He completely got the wrong meaning of ijtihad. You only use it in a last case basis, when you cannot bring any evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah. Not for something like the punishment for a thief. I think any tom **** & harry can realise that. This will only misguide those who Allah wants it to misguide. Many time fitna has come up and it is only to seperate those who truly believe!

 

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
The fitnah will just keep on coming. We ask Allah to strengthen our Eemaan and Yaqeen. And by the way, there is nothing wrong with the phrase Tom, **** and Harry. So i dont know why you put asterisks there.
Wassalam

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I didn't lol... it came up by itsself:?.
Ands true akhee, very true!

 

[azim]

He completely got the wrong meaning of ijtihad. You only use it in a last case basis, when you cannot bring any evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah. Not for something like the punishment for a thief.

Salamu alaykum.

Perhaps I missed it - but when was the punishment of the theif mentioned in the show.

 

[minaz]

When he visited an Islamic school and posed the question to the headmaster.

 

[Starseeker]

I just watched it on more4 at 8 o;clock today. (or was it E4 can't remember!)

 

[minaz]

What did you think of it?

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I think what Rabz and mizan are trying to say is that you can't do ijtihad for the sake of ijtihad, it's only for a last case basis as was mentioned before many times. And what the hell is 'new eyes' supposed to mean? We don't need to look at the Qur'an through any new eyes, there's nothing wrong with it! I can't stand these modernists. Yeah, we can keep looking at the Qur'an through new eyes until it no longer resembles what it was in the first place, like the christians. When are we going to understand that Islam is perfect?

 

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
I'd just like to clarify my position.
That documentary was a complete waste of airtime, it will mislead muslims as well as non-muslims, and it is sending out the wrong message. But then that i what you would expect from the British media
Wassalam

 

[azim]

Asalamu alaykum.

And what the hell is 'new eyes' supposed to mean?

If you're not sure what Tariq Ramadan means by 'new eyes' then why not try to find out, either by contacting him or looking on his website, rather then assuming the negative.

There were some aspects of the show that were quite vague as to what he meant - 'new eyes' being one of them. From his talks, his message is that we need to reexamine Islam to distinguish what is Islam and what is culture. He talked about going back to our religion, and realising that this is 'Pakistani', this is 'Saudi', this is 'Egyptian' and then picking out what is 'Islam' and holding on to it.

I fear that people are being overly defensive and quite unfair to Tariq Ramadan, judging and then condeming him without really trying to find out what he's talking about.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

It was clear what he was talking about. Why question a punishment laid down by Allah? It's worked fine for the last 1400 + years. Let's not get all modernist. 'Re-examine', pshh.

 

[bint_muhammed]

I fear that people are being overly defensive and quite unfair to Tariq Ramadan, judging and then condeming him without really trying to find out what he's talking about.[/QUOTE]


what ya mean we r being over defensive, he wants islam to fit the western world, but excusive me for being a bit old fashioned i dont agree we should change or interpret the quran any differently to how the suhabis did. i think people are trying to find excuses for their weaknesses of the westernworld :rant: :rant: :rant:

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Exactly. We adapt to Islam, not the other way!

 

[azim]

It was clear what he was talking about. Why question a punishment laid down by Allah? It's worked fine for the last 1400 + years. Let's not get all modernist. 'Re-examine', pshh.

Tariq Ramadan's view on huduud is, as I said, from an Islamic viewpoint, very strong.

The scholars describe hudud as being the final aspect of the khilafah to be applied. There isn't even a khilafah that exists so how, Islamically, can you justify huduud? Also, I expect your living in the UK sis, do you know how corrupt monarchies and despotic dictators are using hudud? They use it to punish those in the society who have no voice. In SA, a poor immigrant worker will be punished without a second thought but the rich royal family are untouchable. You call that Islamic sister? If that is your view on Islam then I want nothing to do with it. Islam teaches justice on all scales, on all levels. The hudud is currently being misued and applied in a way that is completely AGAINST Islam. Tariq Ramadan does not call for the abolishment of hudud, rather he is saying that it should temporarily stopped while the 'scholars' of Islam examine the conditions under which hudud can be applied and then these conditions should be followed. There are very few scholars who are brave enough to put forward such an idea - not because it isn't Islamic, but because Muslims would condemn them without even attempting to understand their argument.

Read it here: -
http://www.tariqramadan.com/call.php3?id_article=264&lang=en

 

[Noora_z3]

Tariq Ramadan's view on huduud is, as I said, from an Islamic viewpoint, very strong.

The scholars describe hudud as being the final aspect of the khilafah to be applied. There isn't even a khilafah that exists so how, Islamically, can you justify huduud? . Tariq Ramadan does not call for the abolishment of hudud, rather he is saying that it should temporarily stopped while the 'scholars' of Islam examine the conditions under which hudud can be applied and then these conditions should be followed.

IN another words, Wat tariq Ramdhan is tryin to say that Muslims socites nowadays r so much far from true Islam that they r not ready for the application of Hudud at this point. The muslim state should first bring about Muslim socity that follows Islam in its everyday life before imposing the Hudud laws on them. Lets take the Islamic Economic system for example, does any singel country apply that?! In fact, is there a comprehenisve understnanding of wat an Islamic Economic system should constitute of in todays world?! unfortunaly, no.Now which is more important?!Tariq Ramdhan n other scholrs belive that Islamic Economic system is much more importnt that the Hudud system.

In addtiont to that, we shouldnt forget that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him first made sure that his peaple were speritualy matuer enough before orderign them to follow the Hudud, it was the last Islamic system to be applied on the Muslim community at that time.

 

[snakelegs]

Jihad is a struggle for Allah actually. It can take on many forms, but the greatest is qitaal (fighting in the way of Allah).

qitaal actually means killing, doesn't it?
is this true? i've always read that the greatest jihad is the internal jihad.

 

[azim]

qitaal actually means killing, doesn't it?

I believe at times, depending on usage, it can mean 'mortal combat' rather than killing. *cue theme tune*

is this true? i've always read that the greatest jihad is the internal jihad.

There is a hadith where the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) describes 'jihad-al-nafs' as the greatest Jihad. This is considered daif (weak narration).