Does God beget ?

[Good brother]

The Christian belief that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is the son of Allah (Allah is beyond this), is a grave error.


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Sahih International

The Jews say, "Uzayr is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah assail them!; how are they deluded?
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The monotheistic belief changed following the Prophet Jesus’ (pbuh) ascension into heaven and as Christianity spread into the pagan world, and the monotheistic belief that represented the basis of the law of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) underwent a major alteration. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) began to be regarded as divine (surely Allah is beyond that). The Christians in question began claiming that Almighty Allah appeared in the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) as a human body, and this belief spread widely.

Led and supported by Constantine, the Roman emperor of the time, various people who wanted to alter Christian belief took passages from the bible that mentioned “the son of God” and began using these as supposed evidence.

The authors of the bible used to use the word “son” to mean servant of Allah, and not that the person is in fact the son of Allah (surely He is beyond that). This false and exceedingly dangerous belief that was made part of Christianity subsequently and was intended to destroy monotheistic belief gradually became the most important article of faith and precondition of Christianity, and those who rejected it were regarded as people who had abandoned the faith. Efforts were made, under the leadership of priests who espoused the trinity, to impose this mistaken belief on society by the use of force and pressure, and it was made part of Christianity by force. Anyone opposing belief in the trinity faced severe sanctions, and might be exiled or even killed.

The belief in the trinity that was subsequently included in Christianity, or the belief of the three in one as some Christians put it, appears nowhere in the Torah or the Gospels.
Belief in the trinity, which grew as a superstition in this climate of duress and oppression, and the resulting description of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) as the son of God, is a grave danger and serious error that some Christians are living alongside even today. In the Qur’an, Almighty Allah describes this claim as a monstrous thing and sets out the scale of the danger as follows:


They say, ‘The All-Merciful has a son.’

They have devised a monstrous thing.

The heavens are all but rent apart and the earth split open and the mountains brought crashing down,

at their ascription of a son to the All-Merciful!

It is not fitting for the All-Merciful to have a son.

There is no one in the heavens and earth who will not come to the All-Merciful as a slave. (Surah Maryam 88-93)


Genuine Christians must see this terrible danger. They must realize that the belief in the trinity that was added to the Gospels hundreds of years later and despotically imposed despite all resistance in a terrible climate of corruption is in fact in total conflict with the Gospels.

Of course the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is a beloved servant of Allah, but he is still a human being, who becomes hungry and eats, drinks water, rests when tired, who sleeps and who has needs, like all created entities. It is a fact that this is set out in a great many passages in the Gospels.
In the same way, Allah has revealed in the Qur’an that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is a human being, tested and with needs, like everyone else:

The Messiah, the son of Mary, was only a Messenger, before whom other Messengers came and went. His mother was a woman of truth. Both of them ate food. See how We make the signs clear to them! Then see how they are perverted! (Surat al-Ma’ida, 75)

Devout Christians must behave honestly on this subject and realize that to ascribe divinity to a human being is a violation of the law of Allah, the Christianity brought by the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and of the pronouncements in the Gospels and the Torah, as well as of reason and logic. They must admit the possibility that such a belief, added on to the true revelation hundreds of years later, may represent a serious danger and reflect deeply upon it. What can be the possible meaning or use in trying to ascribe the sublime attributes of Allah to a human being and to regard a human being as divine? Almighty Allah certainly has no need of that (surely Allah is beyond that). Such an idea SIGNIFIES A FAILURE TO PROPERLY APPRECIATE Allah’S MIGHT AND GREATNESS.

Above and beyond this, Christians themselves must reject the idea of Almighty Allah appearing on earth in the form of a human being. This is disrespect for the glory of Almighty Allah. Allah’s might, greatness, glory, might and infinite power are a blessing for Christians. Is it better to believe in an all-powerful Allah or to take as one’s god a human being who sleeps, eats and has needs? All Christians will of course at once see the answer to this. Allah has no need to appear on Earth as a mortal and needy entity in order to reveal His sublime Presence to human beings. (Surely Allah is beyond that.) Our Christian brothers must consider the Gospels rationally and evaluate all these things in a manner compatible with the glory of Allah.

The fact that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) has human characteristics is not, of course, a state of affairs that will in any way reduce his value as a prophet. Jesus (pbuh) is a greatly valued and most holy prophet of our Almighty Lord. Like all other prophets, he occupies the loftiest and holiest position in Allah’s Sight. He is Allah’s great prophet.

The important thing is to believe in Allah – our One and only Creator. Allah wants people to believe in and serve Him, without engaging in idolatry. There is no need for Allah to appear on Earth in human form for people to be able to serve Him. If our Christian brothers wish to approach this subject from a genuinely honest perspective they should ask themselves this question:

How could it be possible to appreciate the sublime qualities of Allah by imagining that He manifested His Presence in a mortal, weak and needy human being who sleeps and eats? Of course, it could not.

Some Christians maintain that Allah’s manifesting Himself as God in a human being (may He forbid) is a means whereby people can reach, draw closer to and pray to Him. But this stems from a failure to properly appreciate Allah’s greatness and might. Almighty Allah has no needs for instruments for the human beings He creates to reach Him.

,“We are nearer to him than his JUGULAR VEIN (Surah Qaf, 16).

Almighty Allah also knows everything inside us, everything we kept hidden within us. Allah is He Who knows the most secret things. He sees and hears all our thoughts, intentions and desires at every single moment. Nothing is hidden from Allah. Allah states this in the Qur’an, "... I see what you make known and what you hide." (Surat al-Baqara, 33)

It is therefore sufficient to pray with sincerity to make contact with Allah. Wherever one may be, Allah will hear and see one and will heed that prayer as He sees fit. Allah enfolds all things and all places. He is with us at every moment. Therefore, the Christian claim in question – that Allah draws close to people by manifesting Himself in the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) – is a serious error stemming from a failure to properly appreciate His might.

We have our Lord Who creates all things and rules over all things and all places. By Allah's leave, the return to Earth of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is close at hand. The prophet Jesus (pubuh) will return to earth and all Christians will love and embrace him. What need is there for ostensible accounts when everything is in Christians’ favor? What can describing Allah as a human being add to Christianity? On the contrary, Allah describes this ascription as follows in the Qur’an, “The heavens are all but rent apart and the earth split open and the mountains brought crashing down.” (Surah Maryam, 90)

Christians must look at matters rationally and adopt a conception of religion that befits the infinite might of Allah. They must see the invalidity of this ideas that have been imposed on societies through duress and pressure and that are incompatible with the glory of Allah. Allah has no need for a son or to create an instrument by which to communicate with human beings (surely Allah is beyond that). Allah stands between a person and his heart, and is closer to him than his own jugular vein.

Sincere Christians must properly appreciate the glory of Allah and know that Allah will not permit such illogical and unnecessary conceptions.

 

[Muharar]

The Jews say, "Uzayr is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah assail them!; how are they deluded?

I always found the bit about Uzayr to be strange. Sure we know about Jesus and the Christians but the Jews dont say Uzayr is the son of God.

 

[Caplets]

I always found the bit about Uzayr to be strange. Sure we know about Jesus and the Christians but the Jews dont say Uzayr is the son of God.

Muharar,

This has been dealt with by islamqa.info. An extract of which states:

"... A Jewish person is asking me about the Qur’an and saying: “We do not believe that ‘Uzayr the Prophet of God is the son of God, and there is no text that says that. We do not say that the hand of God is tied up, and we do not say that we are the sons of God or His loved ones.” And he does not believe in the Qur’an for this reason. I hope that you could please resolve this confusion. He is demanding proofs and says that these are mere fabricated claims against them.




Answer

Praise be to Allah

Firstly:

If that Jewish person were to give a little thought to the matters that he is confused about, he would realise that his problem stems from his arrogance and from his ignorance of his own religion and history, and his ignorance of the laws of God, may He be exalted. If what Allāh, may He be exalted, said about his Jewish forefathers was not true, then those forefathers would have been quick to disbelieve the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and to criticise the Qur’ān for saying things that were not true about the beliefs and views of his Jewish forefathers. But that did not happen. This is indicative of the ignorance of this objector, and shows that he is simply speaking of something of which he has no knowledge. His forefathers would not have wasted this precious opportunity, if Allāh, may He be exalted, had said something about them that was not part of their views and beliefs!

Secondly:

We do not doubt the truth of what Allāh, may He be exalted, said about those Jews, for who is truer in speech than Allāh? But this confused Jew is ignorant of the fact that in the Arabic language it is possible to attribute a view to a group of people without that necessarily meaning that it was the view of all of them; rather those who held that view may have been some of them, but the view may be attributed to all of them. The wisdom behind that in this case is that the silence of the rest of the group, and the fact that they did not denounce this view, means that they approved of it. In that case, it is valid to attribute it to the entire group.

Thirdly:

With regard to the things that Allāh, may He be exalted, mentioned in His Book, about which that Jewish person is confused, Allāh, may He be exalted, did not say that they were in the Jewish Scriptures or part of their religion. Rather they were views and opinions that were said at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allāh be upon him), or before that, by some group among the Jews, and Allāh, may He be exalted, revealed Qur’ān that spoke of that and warned them against those evil views of theirs. The fact that this Jewish person does not hold those views does not change the matter in the slightest. They were views that were definitely held, and disavowing them does not mean that they were not held by some people.

1. Their view that al-‘Uzayr is the son of God:

This view was narrated from some of the Jews of Madīnah, and was narrated from the Isfahānī sect of Judaism.

Al-Hāfiz Ibn Hajar (may Allāh have mercy on him) said: Ibn al-‘Arabī said in Sharh at-Tirmidhi:

The Jews of our own time disavowed the idea that al-‘Uzayr is the son of God, but this does not necessarily mean that this idea did not exist at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allāh be upon him), because that was revealed at his time, when the Jews were with him in Madīnah and elsewhere, and there is no report to suggest that any of them rejected that or commented on it. What appears to be the case is that those who held that view were a group among them, not all of them, based on the fact that those among the Christians who said that the Messiah was the son of God were a group among them, not all of them. So it may be that that group has now become extinct, just as the belief of most of the Jews changed from likening the attributes of Allāh to those of human beings to denying His attributes altogether, and the belief of the Christians in the “Son” and the “Father” became symbolic or metaphorical, and not to be taken literally.

Glory be to the Controller of the hearts.

End quote from Fath al-Bārī (3/359).

Abū Bakr al-Jassās (may Allāh have mercy on him) said:

With regard to the words of Allāh, may He be exalted (interpretation of the meaning): “And the Jews say: ‘Uzayr (Ezra) is the son of Allāh, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah”[at-Tawbah 9:30], it was said that what is meant is a group among the Jews who believed in that. The evidence for that is the fact that the Jews heard that at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allāh be upon him) and did not deny it. This is like the view of one who says that “the Khawārij believe in carrying out massacres and and killing children”, and what he means is a group among them and not all of them. And it is like your saying “Banu Tamīm [a tribe] came to me”, and what you mean is some of them. Ibn ‘Abbās said: That was said by a group among the Jews who came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allāh be upon him) and said that. They were: Salām ibn Mashkam, Nu‘mān ibn Awfa, Shās ibn Qays, and Mālik ibn as-Sayf. So Allāh, may He be exalted, revealed this verse. There are none among the Jews who say that now, as far as we know; rather it was a group among them who said that, and they became extinct.

End quote from Ahkām al-Qur’ān (4/299)

Al-Māwardī (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

If it is said: if that was the view of some of them, why is it attributed to all of them? The answer is: because those who did not hold that view at the time when the Qur’ān was revealed did not deny it.
Hence it was attributed to all of them, even though only some of them expressed that view.[...]

End quote from Tafsīr al-Māwardī (2/353)

Shaykh al-Islām Ibn Taymiyah (may Allāh have mercy on him) was asked about the verse in which Allāh, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the Jews say: ‘Uzayr (Ezra) is the son of Allāh”[at-Tawbah 9:30], did all of them say that or only some of them? And concerning the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allāh be upon him), “The Jews will come on the Day of Resurrection and it will be said to them: ‘What did you worship?’ And they will say: ‘ ‘Uzayr’” [agreed upon] – is this applicable to all of them, or not?

He replied:

Praise be to Allāh. What is meant by the Jews is a category of people , as in the verse in which Allāh, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “Those (i.e. believers) unto whom the people (hypocrites) said, ‘Verily, the people (pagans) have gathered against you (a great army)’” [Āl ‘Imrān 3:173]. Allāh did not say “all the people”, or “all the people have gathered against you”. Rather what is meant here is a category of people. This is like when it is said that such and such a group is doing such and such, or certain people are doing such and such. If some of them hold that view and express it and the rest remain silent and do not object to it, then they all have a share in the sin of that view. And Allāh knows best.

End quote from Majmū‘ al-Fatāwa (15/47)

What we have mentioned here is a principle that will refute the specious argument of that Jewish person. The views that Allāh, may He be exalted, narrated that the Jews held are undoubtedly proven from them, and this refers to some of them, not all of them. Attributing a view to a category of people, even though those who hold that view are a group among them, is a usage that is well known in Arabic, and the fact that those views are rejected now does not mean that they were never held in the past. [...]

Complete answer at: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/164...MY5rogPZHvyRTEuXRPyG-_B_euQwPx-9N02otbVFhPVjB

 

[Muharar]

This has been dealt with by islamqa.info.

I've read your extract and I dont understand where it was dealt with. The extract accuses the Jews of arrogance and says the Uzayr thing is true because Islam says it's true even if the Jews have never done it and clearly dont do it.

What I dont understand is that why would this be in the Quran (which is for all time) when the Jews dont believe it. They're being accused of shirk with Uzayr which is unforgiveable when they dont do that specific form of shirk.

 

[*charisma*]

I've read your extract and I dont understand where it was dealt with. The extract accuses the Jews of arrogance and says the Uzayr thing is true because Islam says it's true even if the Jews have never done it and clearly dont do it.

What I dont understand is that why would this be in the Quran (which is for all time) when the Jews dont believe it. They're being accused of shirk with Uzayr which is unforgiveable when they dont do that specific form of shirk.

It says that it was a belief held from a group from among them. Historically Jews were divided into tribes, so it could be that this group/tribe no longer exists, and therefore there'd be no one to historically convey whether or not it happened since they no longer exist. Secondly, we consider Quran as the truth in regards to this type of history regardless what other scripture say. But you should know that ex-muslim

 

[Muharar]

It says that it was a belief held from a group from among them. Historically Jews were divided into tribes, so it could be that this group/tribe no longer exists, and therefore there'd be no one to historically convey whether or not it happened since they no longer exist. Secondly, we consider Quran as the truth in regards to this type of history regardless what other scripture say. But you should know that ex-muslim

The Quran/Sunnah do not say 'a group' of Jews, that is something that has been added by the apologists later on. It was added in response to criticism from the Jews who were stating that none of them believe or believed that Uzayr is the son of God. The Quran does not limit the number of Jews or Christians it refers to in that verse. The Quran says 'the Jews' and not 'some Jews' and it is stated in the same line as the reference to Jesus and the Christians.

I know Muslims consider Quran as truth and Allah as having all knowledge for all time. If this is true then wouldn't it have made more sense for Allah to have revealed the words 'some Jews' because that version would not have changed the meaning in Muhammad's time and it would have still been accurate for all time and not just for the few decades when Islam was confined to the Hejaz area.

Revealing it as 'the Jews' has only led to doubts on the authenticity and long term relevance of the Quran amongst non-Muslims. Especially Jews who think the Quran is not truthful because of this claim, the question you quoted from IslamQA highlights this point when the questioner says his Jewish acquaintance says 'he does not believe in the Quran for this reason' (ie Uzayr as Son of God).

If we can see with hindsight that using 'some Jews' instead of 'the Jews' would totally destroy any Jewish claims against the Quran (on this point) then why didn't Allah?

 

[*charisma*]

The Quran/Sunnah do not say 'a group' of Jews, that is something that has been added by the apologists later on. It was added in response to criticism from the Jews who were stating that none of them believe or believed that Uzayr is the son of God. The Quran does not limit the number of Jews or Christians it refers to in that verse. The Quran says 'the Jews' and not 'some Jews' and it is stated in the same line as the reference to Jesus and the Christians.

I know Muslims consider Quran as truth and Allah as having all knowledge for all time. If this is true then wouldn't it have made more sense for Allah to have revealed the words 'some Jews' because that version would not have changed the meaning in Muhammad's time and it would have still been accurate for all time and not just for the few decades when Islam was confined to the Hejaz area.

Revealing it as 'the Jews' has only led to doubts on the authenticity and long term relevance of the Quran amongst non-Muslims. Especially Jews who think the Quran is not truthful because of this claim, the question you quoted from IslamQA highlights this point when the questioner says his Jewish acquaintance says 'he does not believe in the Quran for this reason' (ie Uzayr as Son of God).

If we can see with hindsight that using 'some Jews' instead of 'the Jews' would totally destroy any Jewish claims against the Quran (on this point) then why didn't Allah?

Well until you learn Arabic and can actually refute the scholars who have studied the language and Islam for years, your refutation is weak.

With that being said, there are many sects of Judaism that existed that are no longer in existence. Whether the Jews of today have even kept a record of them or not is of question, although I'm sure there are many sects they don't even know about just like we ourselves don't know about the tribes and people that have been completely destroyed before us. So really to take the word of a Jew over a the word of Allah that has been unchanged for over 1400 years delegitimizes your logic.

Secondly, there are many Jews accepting Islam. Allah guides whom He wills. If you are a disbeliever, it wouldn't ever matter if the little nitpicky things you're trying to pull out of it were written differently. The Quran is written the way it is for a reason. If you really want to be nitpicky, learn Arabic, learn tafsir, become a scholar of Islam...then be as nitpicky as you want. But your word is not going to be taken over Allah's. Secondly what would be the benefit for Jews to say "oh yea there was such a tribe!" They'd find no benefit in that so why would they ever look into it if they already see that their religion is the truth? But a tribe or sect worshipping Ezra existing at one point is not out of the realm of possibilities, whether accepted or rejected by todays Jews, so idk why you're acting as if it is.

 

[Muharar]

I want you to read what you've posted;

I'm sure there are many sects they don't even know about

Secondly what would be the benefit for Jews to say "oh yea there was such a tribe!"

But a tribe or sect worshipping Ezra existing at one point is not out of the realm of possibilities,

Your justification is full of doubts and qualifiers and maybes and could be's and so on. Now ask yourself honestly, if some book of another religion (that claimed to be descended from Islam) said 'And the Muslims took Bilal as a Prophet of God' when we know there is no such known belief amongst any known sect of Islam. Would you believe that claim the way you believe this one?

Or would you say that the God of that new religion should have made it clear that this refers to a group of Muslims whose existence will one day become forgotten.

If you yourself were to write a book would you phrase it like that knowing that it would lead to huge issues in the future?

It makes no sense for a book that must be relevant till the day of judgement to include outdated references that will lose their meaning within a few decades unless the person writing the book either didn't know that Jews dont believe in someone called Uzayr being the son of God or that the Jews of his time who do believe that will disappear so quickly.

Well until you learn Arabic and can actually refute the scholars who have studied the language and Islam for years, your refutation is weak.

If you really want to be nitpicky, learn Arabic, learn tafsir, become a scholar of Islam...then be as nitpicky as you want.

That's not a failure for me. That's a failure of the Quran and it's writer. As a Muslim you believe God can do anything God wants to do, you believe nothing is impossible for God to do. As a Muslim you also believe the Quran is a living miracle.

If the Quran is a book that loses it's meaning or can't be accurately translated to any (and every) language in the world then the Quran has failed in it's mission. Or do you believe that it's impossible for God to write the Quran in such a way that it cant lose it's meaning however much the translator tries to corrupt it. After all Muslims say the unique property of the Quran is that it cant be corrupted or changed, yet Muslims are always saying that the Quran is changed and loses it's meaning when translated.

The majority of Christians dont say go and read the original Greek but nearly every Muslim I meet says the Quran must be read in the original Arabic to refute it. That's a failure of the Quran to keep it's promise not me or anyone else.

 

[Caplets]

[...] in response to criticism from the Jews who were stating that none of them believe or believed that Uzayr is the son of God. The Quran does not limit the number of Jews or Christians it refers to in that verse.

Muharar,

Let us watch & listen to what Rabbi Tovia Singer[SUP]1[/SUP] has to say on this. Following are two clips - shorter & full clip.

First video (shorter) 8:14 mins. clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umfrGbCoM3Y


Second video (full) 16:52 mins.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaK87QIhJI0

At time frame (second video) 13:00 mins. - The Rabbi states that he has no reason to doubt what is mentioned in the verse [9:30] regarding 'Uzayr (Ezra).

He (Rabbi - a Jew) has no problem with accepting the possibility that this belief was held at some point in the past (by a Jew or group of Jews), or that it was actually held. Therefore, what you put forward is an untenable argument in the least. A fair and objective person would drop a clearly disproved argument.

And all success is from Allāh

-----------
1. Tovia Singer (born September 20, 1960) is an orthodox rabbi, the founder and director of Outreach Judaism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tovia_Singer

 

[*charisma*]

if some book of another religion (that claimed to be descended from Islam) said 'And the Muslims took Bilal as a Prophet of God' when we know there is no such known belief amongst any known sect of Islam. Would you believe that claim the way you believe this one?

Or would you say that the God of that new religion should have made it clear that this refers to a group of Muslims whose existence will one day become forgotten.

If you yourself were to write a book would you phrase it like that knowing that it would lead to huge issues in the future?

It makes no sense for a book that must be relevant till the day of judgement to include outdated references that will lose their meaning within a few decades unless the person writing the book either didn't know that Jews dont believe in someone called Uzayr being the son of God or that the Jews of his time who do believe that will disappear so quickly.

Your hypothetical question doesn't apply here because it has too many fallacies.

Jews existed before Judaism because they were the descendants of Yaqub/Ishmael (as), so referring to Jews, they are not just a religious group but an ethnic group of people, and even after Moses guided them, when he left, they began worshipping a calf. Right now, even when a Jew becomes an atheist, he is still considered a Jew. So if it is not clear enough that it is very possible there were Jews in the past who worshipped Uzayr, then I don't really know what to tell you.

The whole point for me is, Quran is my first source of truth. If the Jews deny something written about them, it makes no difference to my faith. Everyone alive today did not exist 120 years ago, so I don't think they are in any position to verify what a group of people worshipped thousands of years ago. There were Jewish tribes in Yemen that Jews didn't even know existed til the 1900s.

That's not a failure for me. That's a failure of the Quran and it's writer. As a Muslim you believe God can do anything God wants to do, you believe nothing is impossible for God to do. As a Muslim you also believe the Quran is a living miracle.

If the Quran is a book that loses it's meaning or can't be accurately translated to any (and every) language in the world then the Quran has failed in it's mission. Or do you believe that it's impossible for God to write the Quran in such a way that it cant lose it's meaning however much the translator tries to corrupt it. After all Muslims say the unique property of the Quran is that it cant be corrupted or changed, yet Muslims are always saying that the Quran is changed and loses it's meaning when translated.

The majority of Christians dont say go and read the original Greek but nearly every Muslim I meet says the Quran must be read in the original Arabic to refute it. That's a failure of the Quran to keep it's promise not me or anyone else.

Nah it's a failure on you, bud. If you can't learn a new language to refute something you feel so strongly about, then that's not my problem or Allah's problem lol. He doesn't need you. To have faith and practice it YOU have to conform to religion, it's not the other way around. I mean you're neither a christian, muslim, or a jew so I don't get why it rubs you the wrong way. If Christianity is more lenient about it, I don't see what difference it has made for you, you haven't converted to christianity sooo why should the Quran be changed for an atheist when it is followed, memorized, understood by billions of Muslims around the world? For the likeness of you? I don't think so. Secondly, I never mentioned anything about translations of the Quran or questioning Allah's ability. Stop regurgitating old and outdated arguments. There are plenty of threads for that. I mean do you have any legit arguments that are actually from you? Because this topic is getting boring. You said that you know more about Islam than I do, and so far, you haven't enlightened me at all. And that's saying a lot because we've actually had some intelligent atheists come on board.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

The reasoning of this self-proclaimed ex-muslim is so weak. If he was really muslim, he would know even muslims sometimes warn other muslims of "Shaykh-worship". In Surah at-Tawbah it's said christians and jews take priests and rabbis as their lord. Now does it mean they actually believe they are gods? No. But by taking the word of a rabbi over the word of God, you are replacing God with the rabbi, hence the rabbi "usurping" god.

And in judaism, calling 'holy' people the Sons of God is nothing out of the ordinary, anyone can refer to the bible. And from that metaphorical son of god, being transformed into extreme worship or beliefs in the Arabia where they have a different canon of the bible is possible.

 

[Good brother]

Jewish encyclopedia:

View attachment 6884

Allah knows best.