Does God have a body?

[NYCmuslim]

Brian Greene (in his PBS TV Show The Elegant Universe) demonstrates the futility of explaining Theoretical Physics to a dog. The dog didn’t understand a single character he was writing on the chalkboard, simply because its primitive brain didn’t know what the character resembled, which is probably because it was incapable of understanding the related symbology. We are different, not only do we understand quantum and theoretical physics, but we CAN also understand a lot about God. Things we cannot understand, shouldn’t, as I believe, even cross our minds just like that dog doesn’t wonder about the existence of the Lambda or the Delta. In case the dog does in deed wonder about those things, err… I’ll stop asking questions as soon as anyone proves it.

A dog is not human. It is incapable of "wondering about things" while we humans do. Its brain is different than ours.

As said in the Quran, Allah is unlike any of His creation. That means He cannot be anything that we can see, hear, feel, etc. We can only describe Him by the attributes He uses to describe Himself in the Quran.

Peace

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Jazakallah Khayr Br Khaldun for clearing up the the matter.

That means He cannot be anything that we can see, hear, feel, etc.

I agree with the most of your post. I however find this quoted statement troubling. If Allaah is unable to be heard, then who did Prophet Musa hear at the side of the mountain?

{But when he came to it, he was called from the right side of the valley in a blessed spot - from the tree, "O Moses, indeed I am Allah , Lord of the worlds."}[al-Qasas; 30]

If Musa did not hear Allaah, then who other than Him, can have the audacity to say "indeed I am Allah , Lord of the worlds."?

And Allaah has made it clear in the Qur'an that the believers will indeed see Him:

{Faces, that Day, will be radiant, Looking at their Lord.}[al-Qiyamah; 22-23]

{Nay! Surely, they (evil-doers) will be veiled from seeing their Lord that Day.}[al-Mutafifeen; 15]

 

[YusufNoor]

Could you back your argument from the Quran or Hadeeth of Prophet Peace Be Upon Him? So that we can stop this discussion and save ourselves from a grave sin

[2.32] They said: Glory be to Thee! we have no knowledge but that which Thou hast taught us; surely Thou art the Knowing, the Wise.

thus, if we haven't been taught it, we don't have the knowledge;

[24.15] When you received it with your tongues and spoke with your mouths what you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

my post was answering that, just to be clear.

. We are different, not only do we understand quantum and theoretical physics, but we CAN also understand a lot about God.

absolutely, AND you may question, BUT at times we must constrict our answers!

an Ayah or 2:

6.102] That is Allah, your Lord, there is no god but He; the Creator of all things, therefore serve Him, and He has charge of all things.
[6.103] Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends (all) vision; and He is the Knower of subtleties, the Aware.

an hadeeth from Bukhari:

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 477:

Narrated Masruq:

'Aisha said, "If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6.103) And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the Unseen, he is a liar, for Allah says: "None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah."

thus we don't say what we can't or just plain don't know. BUT that isn't to say that we don't wonder about Allah! we know of 99 of his names [or attributes]:

99 names of allah swt

we use these names in our dua's and in another Hadeeth from Bukhari:

Volume 3, Book 50, Number 894:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Allah has ninety-nine names, i.e. one-hundred minus one, and whoever knows them will go to Paradise." (Please see Hadith No. 419 Vol. 8)

what we do know is found in the Ayat-al-Kursi:

2:255: Sahih International: Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.

we read that Allah's Kursi[chair] extends OVER the heavens and the earth. we ACCEPT that as true, BUT we really don't know how it does! of more value is to learn the Qur'an and adopt the Qur'an as well as to learn the Sunnah and adopt the Sunnah. and as we are to memorize both Qur'an and Hadeeth, we have PLENTY to contemplate and do!

does that make any more sense?

 

[NYCmuslim]

Jazakallah Khayr Br Khaldun for clearing up the the matter.





I agree with the most of your post. I however find this quoted statement troubling. If Allaah is unable to be heard, then who did Prophet Musa hear at the side of the mountain?

{But when he came to it, he was called from the right side of the valley in a blessed spot - from the tree, "O Moses, indeed I am Allah , Lord of the worlds."}[al-Qasas; 30]

If Musa did not hear Allaah, then who other than Him, can have the audacity to say "indeed I am Allah , Lord of the worlds."?

And Allaah has made it clear in the Qur'an that the believers will indeed see Him:

{Faces, that Day, will be radiant, Looking at their Lord.}[al-Qiyamah; 22-23]

{Nay! Surely, they (evil-doers) will be veiled from seeing their Lord that Day.}[al-Mutafifeen; 15]

Good point. I'll have to look more into the matter with Moses pbuh. I guess I'll retract that part of my statement until then.

As for seeing Allah. We cannot see Him while still living in this world. The case is different in the akhira. I should have included that in my post.

Peace.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


We affirm what the texts affirm without asking their kayfa (howness), and we stop at where the texts stop at.


So whatever Allah has affirmed for Himself, we accept that without making a distortion (ta'wil) of its apparent (dhahir) meaning, and whatever He hasn't mentioned - we don't delve into.


Nerd, to answer your question - the 3 best generations of Islam [the sahabah, tabi'in, and their students] did not delve into these issues, hence if the most knowledgable amongst the Muslims did not go into these issues, then we should not either. Since they did it out of a greater wisdom and for the safety of the pure Islam.

How can we comprehend something if we havn't even seen it?

 

[Umar001]

I thought this thread was closed?

Otherwise, its just blind faith,

Maybe this is the difference of the perspectives.

Two individuals with different measuring sticks will most of the time come with different measurements.

Blind faith in someone who deserves it is praiseworthy, well I think it is.

 

[S_87]

Here is the passage I was referring to:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26-28)

Sahih Muslim
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira and in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Hatim Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) is reported to have said: When any one of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face for Allah created adam in His own image.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adarn, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day

We leave these narrations alone without pondering them, because when we ponder we assume.

 

[S_87]

Jazakallah Khayr Br Khaldun for clearing up the the matter.





I agree with the most of your post. I however find this quoted statement troubling. If Allaah is unable to be heard, then who did Prophet Musa hear at the side of the mountain?

{But when he came to it, he was called from the right side of the valley in a blessed spot - from the tree, "O Moses, indeed I am Allah , Lord of the worlds."}[al-Qasas; 30]

If Musa did not hear Allaah, then who other than Him, can have the audacity to say "indeed I am Allah , Lord of the worlds."?

And when Moosa (moses) came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allah said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me." So when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He made it collapse to dust, and Moosa (moses) fell down unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers."
7:143

Tafsir ibn kathir:

Musa asks to see Allah


Allah said that when Musa came for His appointment and spoke to Him directly, he asked to see Him,


[رَبِّ أَرِنِى أَنظُرْ إِلَيْكَ قَالَ لَن تَرَانِى]


("O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You.'' Allah said: "You cannot see Me,'') `You cannot' (Lan) by no means indicates that seeing Allah will never occur, as (the misguided sect of) Al-Mu`tazilah claimed. The Hadiths of Mutawatir grade narrated from the Messenger of Allah, affirm that the believers will see Allah in the Hereafter. We will mention these Hadiths under the explanation of Allah's statement,


[وُجُوهٌ يَوْمَئِذٍ نَّاضِرَةٌ - إِلَى رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ ]


(Some faces that Day shall be radiant. Looking at their Lord.) [75:22-23] In earlier Scriptures, it was reported that Allah said to Musa, "O Musa! No living soul sees Me, but will perish, and no solid but will be demolished.'' Allah said here,


[فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّى رَبُّهُ لِلْجَبَلِ جَعَلَهُ دَكًّا وَخَرَّ موسَى صَعِقًا]


(So when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He made it collapse to dust, and Musa fell down unconscious.) In his Musnad Imam Ahmad recorded from Anas bin Malik that the Prophet said about Allah's saying;


[فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّى رَبُّهُ لِلْجَبَلِ]


(And when his Lord appeared to the mountain, )


«هكذا»


(Like this) then he held out the tip of his little finger. At-Tirmidhi recorded this in the chapter of Tafsir for this Ayah, then he said; "This Hadith is Hasan Sahih Gharib.'' This was also recorded by Al-Hakim in his Mustadrak through the route of Hamad bin Salamah, and he said; "This Hadith is Sahih according to the criteria of Muslim and they did not record it.'' And As-Suddi reported that `Ikrimah reported from Ibn `Abbas about Allah's saying,


[فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّى رَبُّهُ لِلْجَبَلِ]


(And when his Lord appeared to the mountain,) Only the extent of the little finger appeared from Him,


[جَعَلَهُ دَكًّا]


(He made it collapse) as dust;


[وَخَرَّ موسَى صَعِقًا]


(And Musa fell down unconscious) fainting from it

 

[Nerd]

and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allah said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me."

Not to make my own inferences, but is it not very clear that Prophet Moosa (Moses) indeed heard Allah?

 

[Nerd]

We leave these narrations alone without pondering them, because when we ponder we assume.

Agreed

 

[ajazz]

Assalamualikum


Allah describes himself in the holy Quran ,

Verily, I am Allah! There is no other god besides Me. (Quran, 20:14)

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him. (Quran,, 112)

Allah, there is none worthy of worship but He. The Ever-Living, The Self-Subsisting. Neither slumber nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and on Earth. Who can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows the past and the future and they can encompass nothing of His Knowledge except what He wills. His Chair extends over the heavens and the earth and He feels no fatigue in guarding them. And He is The Highest, The Mighty. (Quran, 2:255)

There is nothing comparable to Him. And He is The All-Hearing, The All-Seeing. (Quran, 42:11)

Human beings have 5 basic senses but they have great limitations
Our eyes can detect only light that too in a limited range
We can hear sound which is limited to 20 Hz – 20 kHz frequency range
Our senses are just powerful enough to help us survive in this world
Therefore we cannot picture Allah in our mind.there are many things hidden and unseen by us.
Allah is unique; we cannot compare him with anything in the world or universe
He is beyond any imagination of human beings

so how do we know how Allah(swt) is?

Allah has 99 names(one hidden), they are his attributes, and through these attributes we can know
Allah(swt),
Here are some of his names or attributes

please read them carefully and try to reflect, these are stunning descriptions

As-Salaam
The Source of Peace, The One who is free from every imperfection.

Al-Quddoos
The Holy, The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries.

Al-Mutakabbir
The Majestic, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures and from resembling them.

Al-Khaaliq
The Creator, The One who brings everything from non-existence to existence.
Al-Musawwir
The Fashioner, The One who forms His creatures in different pictures.

Al-Ghaffaar
The Great Forgiver, The Forgiver, The One who forgives the sins of His slaves time and time again.

As-Samee^
The All-Hearing, The Hearer, The One who Hears all things that are heard by His Eternal Hearing without an ear, instrument or organ.

Al-Baseer
The All-Seeing, The One who Sees all things that are seen by His Eternal Seeing without a pupil or any other instrument.

Al-Haleem
The Forebearing, The Clement, The One who delays the punishment for those who deserve it and then He might forgive them.

Al-Kabeer
The Most Great, The Great, The One who is greater than everything in status.

Al-Haqq
The Truth, The True, The One who truly exists.

Al-Mateen
The Firm One, The One with extreme Power which is un-interrupted and He does not get tired.

Al-Mumeet
The Creator of Death, The Destroyer, The One who renders the living dead.

Al-Qayyoom
The Self-Subsisting, The One who remains and does not end.


Al-'Awwal
The First, The One whose Existence is without a beginning.

Al-'Akhir
The Last, The One whose Existence is without an end.

Az-Zaahir
The Manifest, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.

Al-Ghaniyy
The Self-Sufficient, The One who does not need the creation.



Al-Badi^
The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example.

Al-Baaqi
The Everlasting, The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him.


As-Saboor
The Patient, The One who does not quickly punish the sinners.


This is the definition of god in Islam, does any other religion provides such a definite, clear, concise, precise and stunning description of god?

alhamdulila!! Allah-o-akbar!!



from the above quoted verse

"His Chair extends over the heavens and the earth"

this does not mean the chair as we know since from the above description
it is clear
but
suppose if you want to describe something or explain to someone which he cannot comprehend or imagine how do you do that?
well you communicate in the medium that he/she understand and describe things with which he/she is familiar with.

I hope now you understand when you see the expressions such as " hand of Allah"

before i end i quote from the majestic Quran


O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is OftForgiving, Most Forbearing.

Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers.

Al-Maeda: 101.102


Allah knows best

.

 

[Nerd]

In Summary:

-God, in His infinite impeccability, does not have any embodiment (or character) that reminisces with anything in creation.

-Defining him with such mortal characteristics is a grave sin.

-we aren’t allowed to graphically depict Him (squiggly lines of His name is OK though-Arabic Calligraphy).

-We can only understand Allah through His Name's, and what have been revealed to us.

 

[------]

:salamext:

^ Yup.

:threadclo

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Not to make my own inferences, but is it not very clear that Prophet Moosa (Moses) indeed heard Allah?

And why is that?

 

[Nerd]

And why is that?

Refer to the words I quoted from:

"and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allah said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me."

:?

 

[Malaikah]

Yes, Moses did hear Allah as far as I know... so whats the issue? :?

 

[Nerd]

^

As said in the Quran, Allah is unlike any of His creation. That means He cannot be anything that we can see, hear, feel, etc. We can only describe Him by the attributes He uses to describe Himself in the Quran.

Peace

it was somewhat of a proof that Allah can be heard

 

[------]

:salamext:

^ Of course He can be heard!!

"and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allah said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me."

This refers to being Seen.

Any issue?! I think not!

 

[Nerd]

It's a non-issue, Allah can be heard by human beings.

Did Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him saw Allah directly on the night of the ascension?

 

[M H Kahn]

In Christianity, there are references that God has created man in his own image.

Do Muslims hold the same belief? Does God indeed has a body?

Allah has not made it known to us how he is like. He has said that there is nothing like Him. He commands:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him."