"Does the end justify the means" in Islam?

[Alqali]

nope because who gives you the right to judge these kids that they are going to end up in hell so ill protect them by killing them?

Its doesn't depend on whether I know whether they'll end up in Jannah or Hell. Killing (استغفر الله) them(at an early age) gives them "100%" chance of not getting into Hell. Its like an "assurance".

If someone asked me this question for real id tell them to kill themselves first to stop them from doing possible future sins. of course, im not telling you to do that since im assuming youre not actually serious in murdering children.

Subhaanalla, of course not.

 

[S_87]

Its doesn't depend on whether I know whether they'll end up in Jannah or Hell. Killing (استغفر الله) them(at an early age) gives them "100%" chance of not getting into Hell. Its like an "assurance".


.

you would and could never know.
This hadith sums that up:

Abu 'Abd al-Rahman 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud, radiyallahu 'anhu, reported: The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, the most truthful, the most trusted, told us:

"Verily the creation of any one of you takes place when he is assembled in his mother's womb; for forty days he is as a drop of fluid, then it becomes a clot for a similar period. Thereafter, it is a lump looking like it has been chewed for a similar period. Then an angel is sent to him, who breathes the ruh (spirit) into him. This Angel is commanded to write Four decrees: that he writes down his provision (rizq), his life span, his deeds, and whether he will be among the wretched or the blessed.

I swear by Allah - there is no God but He - one of you may perform the deeds of the people of Paradise till there is naught but an arm's length between him and it, when that which has been written will outstrip him so that he performs the deeds of the people of the Hell Fire; one of you may perform the deeds of the people of the Hell Fire, till there is naught but an arm's length between him and it, when that which has been written will overtake him so that he performs the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters therein."


bukhari & muslim

 

[Alqali]

you would and could never know.
This hadith sums that up:

Abu 'Abd al-Rahman 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud, radiyallahu 'anhu, reported: The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, the most truthful, the most trusted, told us:

"Verily the creation of any one of you takes place when he is assembled in his mother's womb; for forty days he is as a drop of fluid, then it becomes a clot for a similar period. Thereafter, it is a lump looking like it has been chewed for a similar period. Then an angel is sent to him, who breathes the ruh (spirit) into him. This Angel is commanded to write Four decrees: that he writes down his provision (rizq), his life span, his deeds, and whether he will be among the wretched or the blessed.

I swear by Allah - there is no God but He - one of you may perform the deeds of the people of Paradise till there is naught but an arm's length between him and it, when that which has been written will outstrip him so that he performs the deeds of the people of the Hell Fire; one of you may perform the deeds of the people of the Hell Fire, till there is naught but an arm's length between him and it, when that which has been written will overtake him so that he performs the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters therein."


bukhari & muslim

sorry but could you translate this into further simple english..or just state the main points?

 

[alcurad]

you don't know the future, thus killing children is wrong. might as well kill every child you see as they might potentially turn out to be bad.

 

[- IqRa -]

sorry but could you translate this into further simple english..or just state the main points?

You might be good all ur life and do something at the end that will take you to hell

you might be bad all ur life and do something at the end that will take you to jannah

 

[Alqali]

You might be good all ur life and do something at the end that will take you to hell

you might be bad all ur life and do something at the end that will take you to jannah

wait , can you please clarify one thing: Will you be able to enter jannah if you've done nothing--killed before making sin(excuse me)?

 

[Alqali]

you don't know the future, thus killing children is wrong. might as well kill every child you see as they might potentially turn out to be bad.

If you look at the bright side, they wont' have to be burden by worldly affairs. But, you're right, our knowledge of the afterlife is not exact and we don't really know.

 

[S_87]

wait , can you please clarify one thing: Will you be able to enter jannah if you've done nothing--killed before making sin(excuse me)?

dont understand that last part...


the hadith was basically saying our qadr is written. You might think someone is sooooooooo pious and guaranteed paradise but their hearts may be evil/or towards the end of their lives they may do an action that will take them to the hellfire and vice versa..

 

[- IqRa -]

wait , can you please clarify one thing: Will you be able to enter jannah if you've done nothing--killed before making sin(excuse me)?

didnt get the last bit

 

[Alqali]

dont understand that last part...


the hadith was basically saying our qadr is written. You might think someone is sooooooooo pious and guaranteed paradise but their hearts may be evil/or towards the end of their lives they may do an action that will take them to the hellfire and vice versa..

So if i kill a child ages 0-13 (again, excuse me), he might not get to Jannah?

 

[S_87]

So if i kill a child ages 0-13 (again, excuse me), he might not get to Jannah?

he is a child...a child isnt judged...its when a person reaches puberty that their deeds are judged..

the issue isnt the child getting jannah its YOU. youd have blood on your hands, a crime punishable by death under shariah law

 

[Alqali]

he is a child...a child isnt judged...its when a person reaches puberty that their deeds are judged..

the issue isnt the child getting jannah its YOU. youd have blood on your hands, a crime punishable by death under shariah law

but I(hypothetically) can try to bear that large amount of sin. I mean I (hypothetically) could serve as sacrifice for getting those kids into jannah. Do you understand the logic there?

 

[S_87]

but I(hypothetically) can try to bear that large amount of sin. I mean I (hypothetically) could serve as sacrifice for getting those kids into jannah. Do you understand the logic there?

no because no one gave you that right. Jannah doesnt belong to you. hypothetically youd be in hell and anyone who says they can totally bear it is an arrogant ignorant person because Allah is severe in Punishment.

 

[- IqRa -]

but I(hypothetically) can try to bear that large amount of sin. I mean I (hypothetically) could serve as sacrifice for getting those kids into jannah. Do you understand the logic there?

There is NO logic there! You can't try to bear anything! You can't even last a second in hell, none of us can! What the...

 

[Alqali]

no because no one gave you that right. Jannah doesnt belong to you. hypothetically youd be in hell and anyone who says they can totally bear it is an arrogant ignorant person because Allah is severe in Punishment.

yes, I'd(hypothetically) be in hell..but alhamdullilah those kids would have a definite peaceful jannah.

Oh I have to mention again that I have no reason be so suicidal and crazy. I'm actually quite selfish and would prefer me getting to jannah---honestly.

I'm really just trying to look at things differently.

 

[Alqali]

so please..i'm sorry if I offended you in anyway...

 

[- IqRa -]

I'm really just trying to look at things differently.

It would be much better for you if you didn't...

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

assalamu alaikum


only the biggest fool would sacrifice his own afterlife.

 

[Alqali]

It's a stupid question to ask, but I can understand the "logic" behind it.

Hypothetically, I suppose the answer to that would be yes. If you kill some innocent child, he would be saved from being held accountable in the afterlife.

But, the flip-side is that you'd be preventing him from achieving his maximum potential. He could have been such a good person that Allah would have rewarded him with much much greater things in Paradise. How could you take that chance to earn more away from him?

Furthermore, that child could have been a means by which many other people would have been guided to the truth in this world. Many hungry people could have been fed through his charity. How could you stop such good from happening?

Yes, he could turn out bad too. But who are you to restrict it for him? Let him make his own choices and use his own freewill.

I see I seee...Agreed, if you look at it that way---what I(not really me) would be doing would be (on the whole) putting MORE people to Hell. Yes,..alhamdullilah for the info. And to you too.

On the DOJ, it will be every man for himself. Siblings won't care for each other. That shows the severity of the punishment awaiting the evil doers. Going to hell willingly as a sacrifice then has got to be the stupidest thing.

I'm not so sure about that...I've heard(from the mosque or someone very faithful) that there's this example of man who , when asked by Allah to transfer to Jannah after years of Hell, rejected Allah's offer and wished to remain in Hell. Isn't that strange?

 

[Alqali]

assalamu alaikum


only the biggest fool would sacrifice his own afterlife.

you don't believe there exists a man who would sacrifice his "everything" for others?