Domestic Violence: Why Women Endure?

[CosmicPathos]

Comicpathos

it is cosmic. Now I am sure it was not a typo and was an attempt at failed sarcasm. if you cant respect others, you are not worthy of respect yourself.

 

[purple]

it is cosmic. Now I am sure it was not a typo and was an attempt at failed sarcasm. if you cant respect others, you are not worthy of respect yourself.

No, it was a typo. And I have created a thread about DV towards men and organsations that can help these men. If anyone of you felt sorry for these men, you would have created the thread yourself instead of downplaying DV towards women. I dont agree with either. But it tends to be the women that speak out for these men and men that make these men feel worthless and less masculine. It tends to be the men that discourage men to speak about their emotions and feelings. So, until there is level of respect and acceptance amongst men that it is okay to speak about emotions. Abuse of any kind towards men and boys will remain hidden.

 

[purple]

No more discussion about DV towards men. I have created a thread for it with organisations that can help. This thread is about DV towards women and I will ishallah post organisations that can help women that suffer from DV.

Sorry If I offended fellow muslims here.

 

[CosmicPathos]

well you keep on talking about stigmatization from society. Well guess what, society is only 50% men. The rest is women. Maybe you should try including women as equals participants in stigmatization too.

this was my last post here.

 

[TrueStranger]

:wa:


Enough of me being weird. I wonder why men abuse their wives in the first place.

That is a good question. There are obviously multiple reasons, but at the end on one deserves to be abused. It's not a normal factor of marriage. How does one hit the mother of your children and then expect them to actually respect their mother. They are clearly misusing their authority over their wives to inflict pain. They probably won't do that to anyone else in society.

 

[purple]

well you keep on talking about stigmatization from society. Well guess what, society is only 50% men. The rest is women. Maybe you should try including women as equals participants in stigmatization too.

this was my last post here.

My respected brother, I did not say a particular gender caused this stigma. I said society as whole is the problem meaning both women and men.

yes some women do make worse for their fellow sisters too. Whatever the case may be this stigma exist.

 

[TrueStranger]

My respected brother, I did not say a particular gender caused this stigma. I said society as whole is the problem meaning both women and men.

yes some women do make worse for their fellow sisters too. Whatever the case may be this stigma exist.

Don't worry much about it sis. You would think that an issue as horrendous as this would receive collective condemnation, but what we see is excuses and statements that downplay the problem.

I honestly do not want to hear such statements.

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

I think the bruises speak for themselves. Again, if you do not believe in statistics, and you do not accept the data that is available, then what evidence are you using to claim that men are as equally abused by women or more?

I'm sure there is a problem men deal with as well, but please don't compare apples with oranges.

Statistics give an idea but do not present the entire truth. I'm saying we don't know which gender is abused more, since statistics cannot give us the entire picture. Hope I made myself clear.

If it is easier for women to appear to be the victim, then why the low level of conviction for rape?

No idea.

When I said it was easier for women to appear to the victim, I meant in the cases of domestic violence. If a man were to turn up to a police station and said his wife beat him up, some men would find it funny and not take him seriously.

Dead women don’t report DV. 2 women a week die on the hands of their partner which far more then men being killed by their partner. Can you explain this statistics?

Can you show me where you got the information? Besides, what do you want me to explain?

Men might have difficult time having custody of their children, but there are a lot more people complaining about that.
Men might have hard time when accused of rape but what about those where their rapist get away with rape?

I'm saying everyone has a hard time, not just women. The children have a very difficult time where their parents split up.

Rape is a difficult crime to prove because the punishment is very severe. If there is any doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he will not be punished. Hence, why there is a very high standard in criminal courts. When you say the rapist gets away with rape, it shows you have a very flawed understanding of the criminal justice system. Everyone is innocent until prove guilty. If the prosecution cannot establish that the defendant has committed rape, then technically he's innocent. You may believe he is the rapist, but it is based on suspicion and not evidence.

Men get raped too, but this is rarely reported.

 

[TrueStranger]

Salaam,

Statistics give an idea but do not present the entire truth. I'm saying we don't know which gender is abused more, since statistics cannot give us the entire picture. Hope I made myself clear.

Typos, that statement is completely inaccurate and contradicts reality. Domestic violence against women is not a folktale, and you made a poor attempt at discrediting the data. Instead of criticizing the problem, you've decided to question the data without providing evidence which might assist your argument.

You're truly diverting your attention and that of the thread away from condemning those who practice it and those who make excuses for it. Try being part of the solution, and not the problem.

 

[purple]

No idea.

When I said it was easier for women to appear to the victim, I meant in the cases of domestic violence. If a man were to turn up to a police station and said his wife beat him up, some men would find it funny and not take him seriously.

Actually there are increasing number of women being convicted of DV. So, police do take DV towards men seriously. It is just you and many others are quick to assume DV towards men will not be taken seriously. And it is often men that make jokes about women that beat men. And it is often men that create environment and uphold stereotypes by not encouraging each other to speak about their emotions.

Can you show me where you got the information? Besides, what do you want me to explain?

National Statistics- direct .gov.uk.

I'm saying everyone has a hard time, not just women. The children have a very difficult time where their parents split up.

Rape is a difficult crime to prove because the punishment is very severe. If there is any doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he will not be punished. Hence, why there is a very high standard in criminal courts. When you say the rapist gets away with rape, it shows you have a very flawed understanding of the criminal justice system. Everyone is innocent until prove guilty. If the prosecution cannot establish that the defendant has committed rape, then technically he's innocent. You may believe he is the rapist, but it is based on suspicion and not evidence.

Men get raped too, but this is rarely reported.

You were feeling sorry for those that get accused of rape, I was pointing out to you to imagine those that did get rape to have their rapist get away with rape (that includes male victims). It does not matter if they were found innocent by court of law, if they did it; it means they got away with raping another human being.

Plus I have created thread about DV towards men (waiting to be accepted). If you cared passionately about it, you would have created the thread yourself instead of downplaying DV towards women. So the discussion ends here.

 

[GuestFellow]

Typos

Salaam,

I prefer to be called Tragic. :statisfie

that statement is completely inaccurate and contradicts reality.

Why?

Domestic violence against women is not a folktale

I'm aware women suffer from domestic violence.

and you made a poor attempt at discrediting the data.

What data have I been presented?

Instead of criticizing the problem, you've decided to question the data without providing evidence which might assist your argument.

The burden of proof is on Purple. She said,

2 women a week die on the hands of their partner which far more then men being killed by their partner.

She made a claim. I asked her where she got this information from.

I could make a claim from the top of my head. I could say every 6 seconds, a girl falls in love with Tragic Typos, because he is so handsome...I wish :/ The burden is on me to prove it.

You're truly diverting your attention and that of the thread away from condemning those who practice it and those who make excuses for it. Try being part of the solution, and not the problem.

All I'm saying some men can be victims of domestic violence. No one knows which gender suffers domestic violence more. Statistics don't reveal everything.

What is the problem?
How have I caused the problem?
What is the solution?

Actually there are increasing number of women being convicted of DV. So, police do take DV towards men seriously.

That's good news.

It is just you and many others are quick to assume DV towards men will not be taken seriously.

Okay.

National Statistics- direct .gov.uk.

Specifically show where you got that statistic from the website you mentioned. Otherwise, I will conclude you made that statistic up.

You were feeling sorry for those that get accused of rape,

Your right that they are accused. They are innocent until proven guilty. Oh, I have not sympathy towards the accused, nor do I hate them. I'm indifferent.

I was pointing out to you to imagine those that did get rape to have their rapist get away with rape (that includes male victims). It does not matter if they were found innocent by court of law, if they did it; it means they got away with raping another human being.

How am I supposed to know they committed rape? No evidence, no conviction. Harsh approach, but this is the approach I take. If the accused is found not guilty, he did not commit rape.

Plus I have created thread about DV towards men (waiting to be accepted). If you cared passionately about it, you would have created the thread yourself instead of downplaying DV towards women. So the discussion ends here.

Oh I'm not passionate about it. I just thought I raise it here. Why should the discussion end here? I'll continue to post away. You can choose to ignore me or respond to my posts, especially if you prefer to have the last say.

 

[TrueStranger]

Salaam,

The burden of proof is on Purple. She said,

She made a claim. I asked her where she got this information from.

Watch the ONLY video that was posted on this thread.

 

[GuestFellow]

Watch the ONLY video that was posted on this thread.

Salaam,

Okay. I'll do that.

 

[Aprender]

How unfortunate times that we live in when a thread about women being in abusive marriages gets hijacked and turned into something about "men being abused too" said by other Muslim men.

Wow. I expect that response from sheltered, upper middle class to rich, racially privileged American college males that I meet at the university but not from Muslim men. Astaghfirullah! And then to see some of my respected brothers on this forum converse with other Muslim women in such disrespectful terms is even worse! Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us better than that!

Something is wrong here. Very, very, very wrong.

Brothers, you are not women. You don't know what it's like to be a woman or a Muslim woman. Instead of sitting here throwing out your suspicions and assumptions about the reality for women in marriages plagued with domestic violence across the world, stand up, and consider what solutions that the Muslim community could put out there to help your sisters who are struggling with this.

 

[White Rose]

I think first of all, we should not compare western culture with eastern culture.
Now if you look at eastern culture only, women don't leave men just like that compared to men being abusive towards women. I feel like it is rare to find a guy that can suppress his anger like Prophet SAW. Also, our nature of religion was so that the women don't have to suffer pain and actually looks forward to getting married. Unfortunately, times have changed and women are appalled by the idea of marriage. :/
Also, when a woman brings up a complain, she is seeking assurance. To hope that men will understand what's going on and prove that they are different. However, men get defensive and think that women are generalizing...
Hope I made sense. These kind of topics make this world seem hopeless so I get anxious.

 

[GuestFellow]

How unfortunate times that we live in when a thread about women being in abusive marriages gets hijacked and turned into something about "men being abused too" said by other Muslim men.

Salaam,

We have all acknowledged that some women suffer from abuse. I said, men can suffer from domestic violence too. It is not off topic. It has a lot to do with this topic. Domestic violence affects everyone.

Wow. I expect that response from sheltered, upper middle class to rich, racially privileged American college males that I meet at the university but not from Muslim men. Astaghfirullah! And then to see some of my respected brothers on this forum converse with other Muslim women in such disrespectful terms is even worse! Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us better than that!

Are you directing this at me? Is so, please be kind enough to point out where I have treated other Muslim women with disrespect.


Brothers, you are not women.

Thanks for pointing that out.

You don't know what it's like to be a woman or a Muslim woman.

Okay.

Instead of sitting here throwing out your suspicions and assumptions about the reality for women in marriages plagued with domestic violence across the world

Can you please point this out?

consider what solutions that the Muslim community could put out there to help your sisters who are struggling with this.

Even if I pointed out solutions, it would be a pointless exercise as they will never be implemented.

 

[ardianto]

This is the translation Sighat Taklik that said by the groom in nikah procession in Indonesia. Notice at the bold point.

------------------------

After marriage agreement, I am .......................................... son of Mr. .............................................. I here with promise thruthfully that I will fulfill my obligation as a husband, and I will associate my wife named ................................................... daughter of Mr. ..................................................... kindly ( mu’asyarah bil ma’rufi ) according to the teaching of Islamic religion.

Furthermore, I read this sighat taklik for my wife mentioned as

follows :
Any time :
1. I leave my wife two years continuously ;
2. Or I do not give compulsory basic necessities of life three months long ;
3. Or I hurt my wife’s body / physic ;
4. Or I neglect / I do not care my wife for six months long.

Then my wife is not willing and my wife complains about her matter to the Religius Court and her complains is accepted by the court, and my wife pays money in the amount of Rp. 10.000,- (around US$ 1,1) as 'iwadh ( substitute) to me, then falls my once divorce to her.

To the court mentioned I outhorize to receive the substitute money and then to hand over it for the need of sociad devation.

---------------------------------

I said this Sighat Taklik too and signed it in my nikah procession. It's means I gave authority to the Sharia court to release my wife from marriage ties with me if I make mistakes like mentioned above and my wife is not willing with it.

Ulama in Indonesia always said, Islam is religion which women have honored position, because women are the mothers of ummah, and Jannah is under the mother feet. Sighat Taklik like written above is a proof that Islam protect the mothers of ummah.

Domestic violence are still happen in Indonesia. However, Indonesian women have advantage because Islam and ulama are stand with them. If a husband treat his wife badly, the wife can report it to an aleem, and this aleem will talk to the husband and give him nasiha to treat his wife well. Nasiha from ulama is effective enough to reduce abuse cases, physically and mentally.

But like I have said, culture play important role. Without having proud to my culture, there are cultures in certain Muslim countries which women are not in good position like in Indonesia. In those places, Islam and ulama are not stand with women when the wives get abused by their husbands. We often heard cases when wives are abused, but ulama, and ummah, did not help them.

Actually this is the challenge for da'i in those places to remind the men to give women their fitrah as the mother of ummah which Jannah is under their feet.

 

[purple]

Specifically show where you got that statistic from the website you mentioned. Otherwise, I will conclude you made that statistic up.

Any person would go to google and type in the website along with the statistics. It is long government documents that contain statistics of murders and violence. I have the hard copy. Here a below:

On average, two women a week in England and Wales are killed by a violent partner or ex-partner. This constitutes nearly 40% of all female homicide victims

Povey, D. (2005) Crime in England and Wales 2003/2004: Supplementary Volume 1: Homicide and Gun Crime. Home Office Statistical Bulletin No. 02/05. Home Office. London; Department of Health (2005) Responding to Domestic Abuse. DH. London.

I am aware the document is on the website I've mentioned.

Your right that they are accused. They are innocent until proven guilty. Oh, I have not sympathy towards the accused, nor do I hate them. I'm indifferent.

You mentioned how they have such harsh time being accused which clearly highlights that you do have some sympathy for them.

How am I supposed to know they committed rape? No evidence, no conviction. Harsh approach, but this is the approach I take. If the accused is found not guilty, he did not commit rape.

I didn’t say you suppose to know, I said it is a lot worse for a victims, male and female, to see their rapist free and no justice for them. Instead of feeling sorry for those accused, maybe your sympathy should be with those that cant convict their rapist. Just a thought

Oh I'm not passionate about it. I just thought I raise it here. Why should the discussion end here? I'll continue to post away. You can choose to ignore me or respond to my posts, especially if you prefer to have the last say.

This thread is about women suffering DV. You choose to derail this thread into “it happens to men too”, I have created a thread, you can write about men suffering from DV there. You are just trying to undermine intentions of this thread which to highlight DV towards women and the possible reasons. If you want to discuss men suffering my DV, go make another thread about it. By saying it happens to men too, you open the door to ridicule DV towards women which two members (see cbdullahi’s post's the joke version of the actual article) in this thread has already done. What have you achieved other than being a problem, rather than letting people explaining the causes and solutions. You may think it is nothing, but there are members in this forum that suffered or suffer from DV or have relatives or friends that do.

Now I want you discuss men suffering from DV in another thread. Ishallah you can discuss it in the one that I have created once it is accepted.

 

[purple]

We have all acknowledged that some women suffer from abuse. I said, men can suffer from domestic violence too. It is not off topic. It has a lot to do with this topic. Domestic violence affects everyone.

Why dont you read the topic title? It is about women that suffer from DV. You should have created another thread. You are trying to completely undermine DV towards women.

 

[TrueStranger]

Salaam,

We have all acknowledged that some women suffer from abuse. I said, men can suffer from domestic violence too. It is not off topic. It has a lot to do with this topic. Domestic violence affects everyone.

Salaam Aliakum,

Not “everyone” is affected by domestic violence, and not everyone experiences it the same way. There are groups that are more susceptible to violence. Women on general experience more violence committed by their intimate partner than men do. Women also suffer more physical pain when abused by men. The amount of pain each gender could inflict is disproportionate as result of physical difference. Purposely ignoring data highlighting domestic violence against women only illustrates how quick you are to discredit and criticize data that was acquired through academic research, while making statements such as “everyone is affected by DV” to downplay the enormity of this issue. There are studies, which have shown inter-generational transmission of violence being as high as 60%. It has become a ritual for some men and it is passed from father to son, and so on.

You’re not even willing to suggest some solutions, yet you are eager to thrown salt on an open wound by questioning existing data and miserably try to claim that both genders suffer equally when it comes to socio-economic matter, and physical and psychological aspects. Instead of exploring the topic further more and doing a mini-research, you decided to repeatedly state that “men suffer from domestic violence too”, so therefore we are on equally footing when it comes to violence. Violence against women is acknowledge to be a global epidemic, and domestic violence is just one form of violence perpetuated against women.

The only time domestic violence against men is brought up is when women actually start talking about domestic violence against women. The only time men start talking about their rights, is when women start questioning inequalities and disparities. The only time men want to openly state their victimization is when women beginning to address women victims publicly.

Gender-based Abuse: The Global Epidemic 1 -Lori Heise

Domestic Violence

The most pervasive form of gender violence is abuse of women by intimate male partners. Over 30 well-designed surveys are now available from a wide range of countries showing that between one-fifth to over half of women interviewed have been beaten by a male partner (Table 2). The majority of these women are beaten at least three times a year with many experiencing persistent psychological and sexual abuse as well. According to a recent review in the Journal of the American Medical Association, “Women in the United States are more likely to be assaulted and injured, raped or killed by a current or ex-male partner than all other assailants combined” (American Medical Association, 1992). The same could be said of women elsewhere in the world. In Papua New Guinea, 18 percent of all urban wives surveyed had received hospital treatment for injuries inflicted by their husbands (Toft, 1986). In Alexandria, Egypt, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women, accounting for 28 percent of all visits to area trauma units (Graitcer, 1994). And in countries as diverse as Brazil, Israel, Canada, and Papua New Guinea, over half of all women murdered are killed by a current or former partner (Heise et al., 1994).