Dont Add Anything Into The Religion!

[------]

Defensive ? am I the one going around talking about rules and secterian accusations ?

isnt the purpose of an islamic forum to interact ? are arent muslims allowed to think for themselves and be open minded .

Or do the same people who say dont blind follow actually blind follow their own hand picked scholars of the latter day ?

If Ibn Rajab exclusively followed the Hanbali Madhab , and all scholars did , Look up siyar a3lam al nubalaa and Tabaqaat Al Shafi3iya.

You will Find listings of All Shafi3i and hanbali scholars who followed 1 Madhab .

So Were all those centuries of scholars wrong ? and only the modern day laa madhahbis right ?

If u follow the quraan and sunnah u wont go astray

khalaas man

 

[pauper]

no, during imam rajabs time many of the top top scholars that had passed away before him like ibn taymiyyah, ibn al jawzi, ibn al qayyim (rahimullah) all these people liked the hanbali tradition, but from their works you can clearly see that they never adhered to one school of tradiiton they always referred back to the Quraan and Sunnah, many times what happens is the people who you learn from might be students or you know ancestors of a certain imam, so people are just associated with that school of thought. but it dont mean they blind followed, like ibn kathir (rahimullah) was a stooodant of ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir is often associated with being shaafi, and ibn taymiyyah = hanbali

so what im saying, is you can be asoociated with a certain school, by where you were born or whom you studied under

like ibn rajab (rahimullah) was born in baghdad i tinkk i dont know much about him?? and baghdad was predominately hanbali back in them days, but yeh lol no one is wrong and right, all the scholars refer themselfs back to the Quraan and Sunnah, they didnt just base their answers on one school of thought

So knowing that why do people say its wrong to Follow a single Madhab ?

If those days Muslims did it , why has it become wrong 600 or more years later by poeple who dont have more knowledge then those people .

If you chop and Choose from Madhabs its called Talfeeq and will lead the normal muslim to following his desires , and he will never be able to meet the conditions of Ijtihad .

Obviously

 

[pauper]

If u follow the quraan and sunnah u wont go astray

khalaas man

Khalaas man ?

Sorry sister translate .

 

[------]

:salamext:

Khalaas = finish, no more to be said

 

[Umar001]

:salamext:

^

Hanbali (Arabic: حنبلى ) is one of the four schools (Madhhabs) of Fiqh or religious law within Sunni Islam (the other three being Hanafi, Maliki and Shafi`i). It is also a school of aqeedah (creed) in Sunni Islam, also referred to as the Athari (or Textualist) school.

The school was started by the students of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (d. 855).

Source

Wa Alaykum Salaam Wa Rahamatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

I understand that part sister, I didn't get the point where people are saying, so and so is Hanbali, and then saying it is not wrong to blind follow or something. Does it mean that being of a madhhab means you cant disagree with scholars in that madhhab?

If you chop and Choose from Madhabs its called Talfeeq and will lead the normal muslim to following his desires , and he will never be able to meet the conditions of Ijtihad .

What do you mean chop and chose from Madhhabs?

 

[chacha_jalebi]

So knowing that why do people say its wrong to Follow a single Madhab ?

If those days Muslims did it , why has it become wrong 600 or more years later by poeple who dont have more knowledge then those people .

If you chop and Choose from Madhabs its called Talfeeq and will lead the normal muslim to following his desires , and he will never be able to meet the conditions of Ijtihad .

Obviously

lol your making a mountain of a hill or whatever the saying is

as muslims we should follow the righest opinion, what taqleed does is it just restricts you to following what you have been told, and instead of doing taqleed of a madhab, we should do taqleed of RasoolAllah (saw) and the laws of Allah (swt)

but in regards to a madhab, they are all correct so it dont matter which one you choose to follow,

and the people who your talking about bro, were scholars! like il give you example Ibn Hajr was shaafi, he was a mujtahid so he had loads of knowlegde and when he had the evidence, he differed with the original opinion of imam shaafi, but he is still regarded as a shaafi, but if he was practising taqleed, he would have said worreva im sticking to this believe,

so when the imams were presented with stronger evidence, they always followed that, the ones who dont do taqleed, and thats why people say its wrong!

capichee?

also lets try not to talk about scholars decisions and why they were this or why they did that too much, jus incase we say something which is wrong

just thought i should add this in

Ibn Taymiyah said:

No one has to blindly follow any particular man in all that he enjoins or forbids or recommends, apart from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Muslims should always refer their questions to the Muslim scholars, following this one sometimes and that one sometimes. If the follower decides to follow the view of an imam with regard to a particular matter which he thinks is better for his religious commitment or is more correct etc, that is permissible according to the majority of Muslim scholars, and neither Abu Haneefah, Maalik, al-Shaafa’i or Ahmad said that this was forbidden.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 23/382.

the four imams said ....

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.” Maalik said: “I am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.” Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence, then this is my view.” Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

i love the bit where it says LEARN AS WE HAVE LEARNED, where did they learn from? Quraan and Sunnah, thats were all our knowlegde should come from!!

 

[pauper]

No my friend it does not work that way , cause if what You say is right then why did those scholars follow only one ?

Answer me please .

Why is it only scholars of the past 30 years who came up with this dont blind taqleed theory ?

scholars are scholars not prophets , We shouldnt conceal mistakes in Islam we should point then out so the general ummah dont fall in it too .

Here a List of scholars with reference akhi who followed the Shafie Madhahb :


(iii) 'Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya '- This is a very well known dictionary listing all the famous Shafi'i scholars uptill the death of its author-Imam Taj al-Deen al-Subki (rahimahullah).

(iv) 'Siyar a'lam al-nubala'- This is a biographical dictionary by the famous scholar of Hadith-al-Hafiz Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Dhahabi (rahimahullah).

The Shafi'i Scholars

Imam al-Bayhaqi (d. 458/1066; al-A'lam, 1.116 [xi,6]),
Shaykh Abu Yusuf al-Buweeti [xii],
Shaykh Abul Qasim ad-Daariki [xii],
Hafiz Ibnas-Salah (d. 643/1245; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 8.326 [xii]),
Imam Taqi ad-Deen al-Subki (d. 756/1355; al-Fatawa al-Hadithiyya, 114 [xii,14]),
Imam Abu Nu'aym (d. 430/1038; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 4.18 [xii,52]),
Imam al-Bukhari (d. 256/870; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 2.212-14 [6]),
Imam Muslim (d. 261/875; Siyar a'lam al-nubala, 12.557-61 [6]),
Imam Abu Dawud (d. 275/889; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 2.293 [xiii,14]),
Imam Nisai (d. 309/915; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 3.14-16 [6]),
Imam Tirmidhi (d. 279/892; Siyar a'lam, 13.270-73 [6]),
Imam ibn Majah (d. 209/824; al-A'lam, 7.144 [6]),
Imam al-Suyuti (d. 911/1505; al-A'lam, 3.301-2 [5]),
Hafiz Ibn Khuzaymah (d. 311/924; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 3.109 [16]),
Imam ash-Sha'rani (d. 973/1565; al-A'lam, 4.180-1 [viii,35]),
Imam Hakim (d. 405/1014; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 4.155 [xi,39]),
Imam ibn Asakir (d. 571 AH [xi]),
Hafiz Khateeb al-Baghdadi (d. 463/1072; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 4.29 [xi,52]),
Hafiz al-Dhahabi (d. 748/1348;Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 9.100 [18]),
Hafiz al-Iraqi (d. 806/1404; al-A'lam, 3.344 [18]),
Imam al-Tabarani (d. 360/971; Siyar a'lam, 16.119-23 [18]),
Imam al-Izz ibn Abdas Salam (d. 660/1262; al-A'lam, 4.21 [27]),
Imam ibn Hibban (d. 354/965; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 3.131 [39]),
Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852/1449; al-A'lam, 1.178 [39]),
Hafiz al-Haythami (d. 807/1405; al-A'lam, 4.266 [40]),
Imam al-Haramayn (d.478/1085; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 5.165 [41]),
Imam Abul Qasim al-Qushayri (d. 465/1072; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 5.153 [50]),
Imam al-Razi(d. 606/1210; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 8.81-89 [59]),
Imam al-Baghawi (d. 510/1117; al-A'lam, 2.259 [59]),
Imam Abu Shamah (d. 665 AH [78]),
Imam al-Nawawi (d. 676/1277; al-A'lam, 8.149 [xi,15]).


From this list according to Imam Dhahabi and Imam Taj Adin Al Subki rahimahum Allah it is clear that following a Madhab by these scholars was practiced .

So why are we all wrong to do it then , if we ourselves dont meet the conditions to do ijtihad ?

 

[jzcasejz]

lol your making a mountain of a hill or whatever the saying is

Lol, let me help you out here. ;D It's "mountain out of a molehill".

 

[pauper]

Looks more like truth that hurts .

 

[Danah]

all of us are following Quran and Sunna but for these four madhabs, they are not different in what was stated in quran and Sunna,
as I know, they are expanding in additional things and those small details which were not stated in Quran like where to put your hand when you are praying or some of the Hajj steps and issues

Allah know the Best

 

[jzcasejz]

Looks more like truth that hurts .

^ LOL, looks more like this is a debate not worth participating in. We've had plenty, and I mean plenty, of Taqleed threads like this in the past... and you're practically bringing nothing new to the table here. We've gone through this time and time again on this forum.

And "truth" hurts? Was there any truth from you to start off with? :rollseyes

 

[Umar001]

I am still confused, what happens if someone joins a madhhab? I mean, everyone here seems to be debating Madhhab this and why we should, but what actually happens if one ascribes himself to it?

So why are we all wrong to do it then , if we ourselves dont meet the conditions to do ijtihad ?

I think some would argue that it is precisely the fact that we don't meet the conditions of ijtihad that we dont have the same position as those scholars.

Me = layman, I go to a scholar/student of knowledge I trust ask him for the rulings on matters. I don't see why I'd have to go specifically to a Shafi'i or a Hanbali, say I am in town x and there is a Shafi'i scholar I ask him, and if I go back home in town y and theres a Hanbali scholar I ask him, I dont see why I'd have to travel all the way back to the other place to speak to the Shafi'i scholar?


EDIT: Let's remember we are all brothers and sisters here, let's not let shaytan get between us or even our own nafs get between us.

 

[pauper]

No my friend it does not work that way , cause if what You say is right then why did those scholars follow only one ?

Answer me please .

Why is it only scholars of the past 30 years who came up with this dont blind taqleed theory ?

scholars are scholars not prophets , We shouldnt conceal mistakes in Islam we should point then out so the general ummah dont fall in it too .

Here a List of scholars with reference akhi who followed the Shafie Madhahb :


(iii) 'Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya '- This is a very well known dictionary listing all the famous Shafi'i scholars uptill the death of its author-Imam Taj al-Deen al-Subki (rahimahullah).

(iv) 'Siyar a'lam al-nubala'- This is a biographical dictionary by the famous scholar of Hadith-al-Hafiz Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Dhahabi (rahimahullah).

The Shafi'i Scholars

Imam al-Bayhaqi (d. 458/1066; al-A'lam, 1.116 [xi,6]),
Shaykh Abu Yusuf al-Buweeti [xii],
Shaykh Abul Qasim ad-Daariki [xii],
Hafiz Ibnas-Salah (d. 643/1245; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 8.326 [xii]),
Imam Taqi ad-Deen al-Subki (d. 756/1355; al-Fatawa al-Hadithiyya, 114 [xii,14]),
Imam Abu Nu'aym (d. 430/1038; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 4.18 [xii,52]),
Imam al-Bukhari (d. 256/870; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 2.212-14 [6]),
Imam Muslim (d. 261/875; Siyar a'lam al-nubala, 12.557-61 [6]),
Imam Abu Dawud (d. 275/889; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 2.293 [xiii,14]),
Imam Nisai (d. 309/915; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 3.14-16 [6]),
Imam Tirmidhi (d. 279/892; Siyar a'lam, 13.270-73 [6]),
Imam ibn Majah (d. 209/824; al-A'lam, 7.144 [6]),
Imam al-Suyuti (d. 911/1505; al-A'lam, 3.301-2 [5]),
Hafiz Ibn Khuzaymah (d. 311/924; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 3.109 [16]),
Imam ash-Sha'rani (d. 973/1565; al-A'lam, 4.180-1 [viii,35]),
Imam Hakim (d. 405/1014; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 4.155 [xi,39]),
Imam ibn Asakir (d. 571 AH [xi]),
Hafiz Khateeb al-Baghdadi (d. 463/1072; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 4.29 [xi,52]),
Hafiz al-Dhahabi (d. 748/1348;Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 9.100 [18]),
Hafiz al-Iraqi (d. 806/1404; al-A'lam, 3.344 [18]),
Imam al-Tabarani (d. 360/971; Siyar a'lam, 16.119-23 [18]),
Imam al-Izz ibn Abdas Salam (d. 660/1262; al-A'lam, 4.21 [27]),
Imam ibn Hibban (d. 354/965; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 3.131 [39]),
Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852/1449; al-A'lam, 1.178 [39]),
Hafiz al-Haythami (d. 807/1405; al-A'lam, 4.266 [40]),
Imam al-Haramayn (d.478/1085; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 5.165 [41]),
Imam Abul Qasim al-Qushayri (d. 465/1072; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 5.153 [50]),
Imam al-Razi(d. 606/1210; Tabaqat al-Shafi'iya, 8.81-89 [59]),
Imam al-Baghawi (d. 510/1117; al-A'lam, 2.259 [59]),
Imam Abu Shamah (d. 665 AH [78]),
Imam al-Nawawi (d. 676/1277; al-A'lam, 8.149 [xi,15]).


From this list according to Imam Dhahabi and Imam Taj Adin Al Subki rahimahum Allah it is clear that following a Madhab by these scholars was practiced .

So why are we all wrong to do it then , if we ourselves dont meet the conditions to do ijtihad ?

answer this post head on then , if you are self proclaimed experts on the subject .

are all those scholars wrong and your Khalaf scholars right ?

 

[chacha_jalebi]

answer this post head on then , if you are self proclaimed experts on the subject .

are all those scholars wrong and your Khalaf scholars right ?

my other post i think proved a lot, i thought i did a good job pssssh, (destroy my confidence why dont you)

il like to re repeat this paragraph

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.” Maalik said: “I am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.” Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence, then this is my view.” Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

the imams called to Quraan and Sunnah, not to their opinion, and with regards to the imams you mentioned, like i said ibn kathir, was a follower of the shaafi madhab, yet when he found stronger evidence he went againist the shaafi madhab, but he still is regarded as a follower of the shaafi madhab.

its like in GCSE subjects, when you have two teachers for the same subject, you always like the way one teacher teaches, but they are teachin the same thing, but you prefer one teacher over another, thats what the imams did, they preferred one school of thought over the other and if they found evidence, they would accept that, even if it went againist their school.

if you practise taqleed, your most likely not to go againist your madhab even if you are given evidence that is stronger!

and all the scholars you mentioned and all scholars of the pass, preferred a certain school of thought, its like the example i gave you before, two teachers both teach same thing, but have different styles, you will like a certain style innit, thats exactly the same with madhabs. but no matter how good the opinion is, if there is stronger evidence againist it, then any sound minded muslim will follow the stronger evidence!

at the end of the day, if you wana practice taqleed, woo hoo to you, innaay

no need to start a riot on a forum,:-[

 

[pauper]

my other post i think proved a lot, i thought i did a good job pssssh, (destroy my confidence why dont you)

il like to re repeat this paragraph

Abu Haneefah said: “This is my opinion, but if there comes someone whose opinion is better than mine, then accept that.” Maalik said: “I am only human, I may be right or I may be wrong, so measure my words by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.” Al-Shaafa’i said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh, then ignore my words. If you see well established evidence, then this is my view.” Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly, and do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn as we have learned.” And he said, “Do not follow men blindly with regard to your religion, for they can never be safe from error.”

the imams called to Quraan and Sunnah, not to their opinion, and with regards to the imams you mentioned, like i said ibn kathir, was a follower of the shaafi madhab, yet when he found stronger evidence he went againist the shaafi madhab, but he still is regarded as a follower of the shaafi madhab.

its like in GCSE subjects, when you have two teachers for the same subject, you always like the way one teacher teaches, but they are teachin the same thing, but you prefer one teacher over another, thats what the imams did, they preferred one school of thought over the other and if they found evidence, they would accept that, even if it went againist their school.

if you practise taqleed, your most likely not to go againist your madhab even if you are given evidence that is stronger!

and all the scholars you mentioned and all scholars of the pass, preferred a certain school of thought, its like the example i gave you before, two teachers both teach same thing, but have different styles, you will like a certain style innit, thats exactly the same with madhabs. but no matter how good the opinion is, if there is stronger evidence againist it, then any sound minded muslim will follow the stronger evidence!

at the end of the day, if you wana practice taqleed, woo hoo to you, innaay

no need to start a riot on a forum,:-[

Exactly so you end up following your nafs like all laa mathabis do , thats why the Ummah has deteriorated Islamically over the last 30 years since this doctrine was glorified .

 

[pauper]

Now really the bigger joke is that the same people who tell you dont blind follow are actually blind following the Khalaf scholars of today who say dont blind follow .

 

[snakelegs]

just a stupid question because i'm confused: are you saying the practice of following a madhab just came in to being within the past 30 years?

 

[pauper]

just a stupid question because i'm confused: are you saying the practice of following a madhab just came in to being within the past 30 years?

No those who say Dont follow Madhabs blindly came into the limelight , and now they are being followed Blindly :statisfie.

 

[snakelegs]

thanks. whew - this is confusing. interesting discussion, though.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Shaykh Yasir Qadhi said:

[...]
And I believe one of the greatest factors that damaged the dawah of pure Sunni theology was the incorrect emphasis on fiqh matters and not following a madhab. This really gave the impression (which still exists in the minds of many people) that our scholars were trying to promote an ‘every person is an alim’ type of mentality. The reality is that the extreme anti-madhab stance of some scholars is an aberration, even with pure Sunnism. The vast majority of our scholars, including Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim, came from madhabs and never advise the masses to abandon madhabs. Hence your shock at discovering that Sh. Ibn Uthaymin (and Ibn Baz, and almost ALL the scholars of Islam) actually encouraged following a madhab. I remember once, in my first semester at the University of Madinah, Sh. Ibn Uthaymin came to the University and gave a beautiful lecture (it was the first time I met him). In it, he said, “I advise you all to follow a madhab…” And this advice was being given to us students of knowledge, not just laymen on the streets!! It was one of many hundreds of eye-openers that I myself was exposed to over the years of study that I did there.

Indeed, the more knowledge one gains, the less stubborn and hard-headed he becomes about one position being absolutely right to the exclusion of all others. (Of course this applies to fiqh much more than it does to theology, but even in some issues of theology there is leeway…)

Yasir
​

http://muslimmatters.org/2007/07/03/ok-so-do-you-really-have-to-follow-a-madhhab/#comment-3885

At the end of the day, this discussion here is not going to be of benefit to anyone as no one here seems to be on either extreme of the matter, but are all somewhere in the middle area with leanings here and there and we are attacking each other for positions the other does not hold, assuming worst of him. So please, everyone, take a break and move on from this discussion, a year from now if this thread were to be pulled up and you were to read it, you would look back and be like: "Why in the world was I arguing about this for?!". Let's make better use of our time.