Dutch Consider Banning Religious Animal Slaughter

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

The western world thinks Allah have same rights as human. That is crazy, animal is below us. Animal killing is not human killing, animal belong to human, let human do as they please.

Assalaamu alaaykum

Yes, but just because they're 'below' us, doesnt give us the right to treat them wrongly.
maybe i misunderstood something from your post. If we let human do as they please, then we would all never be at peace, world would be messed up exactly how it is today in some parts, sadly, and the fools still blame religion for it when they follow their own vain desires.

 

[GuestFellow]

Assalaamu alaaykum

Yes, but just because they're 'below' us, doesnt give us the right to treat them wrongly.
maybe i misunderstood something from your post. If we let human do as they please, then we would all never be at peace, world would be messed up exactly how it is today in some parts, sadly, and the fools still blame religion for it when they follow their own vain desires.

:wa:

I remember when merchants were surprised to hear that Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) gave camel rights, basically, you cannot overload them. So Islam does provide rules for animals to be treated properly.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

:wa:

I remember when merchants were surprised to hear that Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) gave camel rights, basically, you cannot overload them. So Islam does provide rules for animals to be treated properly.

Assalaamu Alaaykum

Yes, all animals are given rights, even the Pig, just because we arent allowed to eat as muslims, doesnt mean we start beating it and what not. There is actually a vid on Youtube where they are beating one, because of being what is is, its really sad. and also much more disturbing videos of the massacre of animals, astagfirullaah it is upseting, these people have no morals, they need strong guidance. and may Allaah guide them to the path of mercy and kindness towards the innocent beings Ameen

Subhaan'Allaah

 

[Verdetequiero]

Holland is the "mecca" of legalized vices which is laughed at as a depraved society by others with morals, and simultaneously worshipped by the many degenerates who partake in these services and substances from around the world. If another country does same the as holland, it just means they are joining holland on the march to hell.

The halal way of slaughtering animals is painless and quick. Muslims are not allowed to make animals suffer. Actually, beating and trying to stun an animal is more painful. So you are wrong. This law is wrong.

You might want to come down off your moral high horse and actually start showing evidence such as studies that show that halal methods of killing are less painful than "stunning" or other methods. I have no problem with halal slaughter ( and I think the the right wing in Holland is taking advantage of animal rights activists to push their agenda) but it needs to be shown that it is less painful.

 

[Verdetequiero]

Prostitution can be dangerous. You can get sexually transmitted diseases. There have been cases where prostitutes have been killed. As for drugs, you can get addicted to them.

Same thing can be said of chocolate. Prostitution can be practiced in a way that minimizes STDs and deaths though unionization, accreditation, and regulation as well as drug use can be not harmful to the person or even beneficial as well. The point isn't an advocacy of those things, but to show that the issue isn't between a "degenerate" cesspool and total prohibition.

I would say prostitution and drug dealing are more serious than religious animal slaughter.

Probably.

No. Some people are not used to seeing animals being slaughtered. I personally do not get sick. It is not as painful as it looks: [/URL]

However, the study notes that the "objective results presented for the captive bolt application in sheep (..) rather (..) indicates that the captive bolt device used is suspect" and that these initial "scientific findings and the results presented are only a very first contribution"

it was a preliminary study. I wouldn't mind if a full study showed that halal study was less painful than stun slaughtering but the study is the equivalent of an exploratory article.

I do feel sick when I hear about vulnerable young girls becoming prostitutes and sleeping with random men.

obviously, everyone does.

 

[GuestFellow]

Prostitution can be practiced in a way that minimizes STDs and deaths though unionization, accreditation, and regulation

Right...do you have evidence to back this up? :

obviously, everyone does.

Actually I've met people that approve of it.

 

[Verdetequiero]

Right...do you have evidence to back this up? :

The theory behind it is obviously simple. As services become legalized they have more legal recourse, social responsibility, can unionize etc. That is why pharmaceutics companies don't go around shooting each other up but drug dealers do in spite of selling very similar products. The actual data behind it is very hit and miss with both pro legalization and anti legalization distorting statistics. For that reason, I can understand the theoretical position that prostitution can be practiced in a safe and healthy way, but I can't say with certainty that legalizing will automatically make things better.

 

[GuestFellow]

^ I'll assume you have no evidence to back up your claims. All you presented was a theory.

 

[Verdetequiero]

You must have misread me. There are studies that show that the theory is true, but there are countervailing studies as well. To avoid a "this study says this, that study says that back and forth", I stated all the available information as it is known.

 

[Verdetequiero]

In the same way that I am not inclined to believe that ritualistic slaughter isn't some horrible protracted death for an animal because some studies show that it isn't, but I'm not inclined to believe that it is " the least painful and the best way to slaughter an animal".

 

[Ramadhan]

In the same way that I am not inclined to believe that ritualistic slaughter isn't some horrible protracted death for an animal because some studies show that it isn't, but I'm not inclined to believe that it is " the least painful and the best way to slaughter an animal"

What do you think is the best way to kill animals for food?
We also need to keep in mind that the animals will be eaten by humans, and so the health of humans who will eat it must also be taken into consideration, ie. the killing must eliminate as much possibilities for potential diseases as possible.

 

[Verdetequiero]

I think it is a toss up between stun killing and perhaps ritual slaughter as far as we know. I think this particular case is a case of a right wing bigoted party taking advantage of a animal rights group for its own end.

 

[Ramadhan]

I think it is a toss up between stun killing and perhaps ritual slaughter as far as we know. I think this particular case is a case of a right wing bigoted party taking advantage of a animal rights group for its own end.

How about the issue of health?
Stun killing does not drain the blood of the animals as fully as halal/kosher slaughter does. And most of parasites are carried in the blood of the animal.

 

[Verdetequiero]

Seems like you can never be sure. Better ban halal and stun killing and just leave kosher. Dry bland meat it is.

 

[Trumble]

Prostitution can be dangerous. You can get sexually transmitted diseases. There have been cases where prostitutes have been killed. As for drugs, you can get addicted to them.

Of course. But the primary argument for legalization of prostitution (I'm not advocating it, just stating it) is that it is prostitution is less dangerous if legalized and regulated to include regular health checks, licensed brothels rather than prostitutes hanging around street corners and so forth. Legalization of some narcotics (again, I'm not advocating, just stating) can be justified on the grounds that controlled availability helps prevent poisoning from impurities, infections (including HIV) from dirty needles etc, and that it would reduce both organized crime and associated violence (dealers) and petty crime (addicts). In the case of hard drugs, availaibility is only suggested for existing addicts. In both cases, the essential point is that legal or not, both will happen anyway.

I would say prostitution and drug dealing are more serious than religious animal slaughter.

Like most moral issues, that's one of opinion. I wouldn't necessarily disagree if the second referred to the method of slaughter. I would if talking about slaughter period.

No. Some people are not used to seeing animals being slaughtered. I personally do not get sick.

I think you have missed the point here. Neither of us were referring to physical 'sickness'!

I do feel sick when I hear about vulnerable young girls becoming prostitutes and sleeping with random men.

As do I. But, again, the argument would be that regulated legalization in fact protects such girls. Let's not stray further off topic, though. This one is about killing animals, not prostitution or drugs.

 

[Ramadhan]

Seems like you can never be sure. Better ban halal and stun killing and just leave kosher. Dry bland meat it is.

Why ban halal but allow kosher? The method of killing in halal and kosher ways are extremely similar, the exception is only where muslims say "bismillah" or "allahu akbar" when slaughtering animals, while the jews intend to slaughter also in the name of God (I dont know the exact phrase they say in hebrew).
Or did you not know this?

Another thing: stunning does not make the animals fully subconscious, hence it is you actually add distress and torture the animals by stunning it.

As I said in my previous post, this ban is nothing but attack on Islam specifically.
Had muslims eat foie gras as part of halal dietary, you can be sure that the europeans would have banned it on the basis of torturing the geese (which is exactly what it is).
Had Islam prescribed for wearing fur and killing the furry animals sadistically, you can be sure that fur would have been banned long time ago on the basis of cruelty (which is exactly what it is).
You can see there are many many common european practices which are actually sadistic and torture towards animals, but are allowed.

But when Islam prescribe the method of treating and killing animals for food in the most humane way that actually minimize animals distress and suffering and best way to guarantee cleanliness of the meat, the europeans call it animal torture, while the alternative that they offer (stunning) is actually adding to more sufferings and provide environment for parasites to stay and grow (which becomes health issue).

Any way you look at it, there is no way that it is not intentional Islamophobe at practice.

 

[Verdetequiero]

Kosher drains more blood out of the animal than does halal on average, but in reality I don't care.

Another thing: stunning does not make the animals fully subconscious, hence it is you actually add distress and torture the animals by stunning it.

Things like this make me leery. Usually it is based on a chain mail or on some preliminary evidence as has already been shown in this thread. When it comes to slaughtering animals and if they can feel pain or not some testing would be required.

 

[aadil77]

Kosher drains more blood out of the animal than does halal on average, but in reality I don't care.

Sorry I'd like to see some proof for that statement, as far as I know the method is the same

 

[Verdetequiero]

Nikkur in the Jewish tradition drains more blood from the hind quarters. Personally I don't care if Muslims and Jews slaughter animals in any particular way as long as it can be shown not to be cruel. I like my meat bloody and juicy though.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Yes I agree with the sentiment that this is another 'cloaked' attack on Islamic practices. :hmm:

Its just a suggestion but couldnt a compromise be found? Like a modernised version of halal slaughter

If worst comes to the worst, another possible solution is to import halal meat from abroad.