Egypt books refer to Ottoman rule as “invasion”

[Zafran]

You seem to be confused with who you are talking to... but anyway the points are easy to defend

There you go Zafran. There is your self-defense excuse.

The Muslims conquered their neighbors to avoid being conquered.

Nobody has used the word self defence except you even Argamemnon hasnt used the word self defence - you just said before you were wrong and here you are trying to revive it again?

You think the US would attack Japan militarily if they did? I don't

Japan cant get that militery base off there land - Period - I dont think any sane person will argue against that even when the PM of Japan had to resign as he couldnt do what the population of Japan wanted him to do - getting rid of that miltery base.

If the military bases do not benefit the people then they can have them removed. Sure, there may be economic penalties but no physical force would be used.

The countries choose to keep them there for financial reason and for security reasons. So yes, they do benefit the people in those countries.

The militery bases in Japan dont benefit anyone except the US - the PM tries to get rid of them and look what happend to him.

The militery bases of Mid east dont benefit anyone except the despots like the royal saudis or mubarak - the middle men - the population have no benefit at all - actully america helps the despots in keeping the population in check - helping them if they need to deal with some revolts here or there. This is all in favour of the US - the gangsters in the mid east help the US and there intrests.

You believe people can choose to keep the US bases in there country - thats very naive that like me saying the Brits Had a choice to have Roman army in Cornwall! The Brits couldnt take the Roman army off - Period

 

[جوري]

Why are we arguing with Titus? in his provincial mind and probably midwestern town, he would like to view it as a ghazw instead of fat7 in spite of what Egyptians say in spite of what history says.. let him have his moment.. is he convincing anyone -- other than his own person that is?

 

[titus]

Nobody has used the word self defence except you even Argamemnon hasnt used the word self defence - you just said before you were wrong and here you are trying to revive it again?

He said that it was either conquer or be conquered. How is that not an argument for self defense?

Japan cant get that militery base off there land - Period - I dont think any sane person will argue against that even when the PM of Japan had to resign has he couldnt do what the population of Japan wanted him to do - getting rid of that miltery base.

The Japanese government could have the US leave, the problem was that the PM did not have a enough support to get it done. In other words he made a promise that he couldn't keep.

The militery bases in Japan dont benefit anyone except the US - the PM tries to get rid of them and look what happend to him.

Like I said, there are many in the government that want them to stay. That was why the PM could not get them removed.

You believe people can choose to keep the US bases in there country - thats very naive that like me saying the Brits Had a choice to have Roman army in Cornwall!

Again you confuse two different situations. The Romans had their army in Britain to make sure that Britain remained a part of the Roman Empire. The US is not there in order to keep Japan a part of the United States.

 

[titus]

in his provincial mind and probably midwestern town, he would like to view it as a ghazw instead of fat7 in spite of what Egyptians say in spite of what history says.. let him have his moment.. is he convincing anyone -- other than his own person that is?

And you can keep living in your naive fantasy world in which everyone welcomed the Muslim invaders who conquered them.

Perhaps you have a mental picture of the victorious armies walking into towns with the local population strewing flower petals at the feet of the heroes?

 

[Zafran]

He said that it was either conquer or be conquered. How is that not an argument for self defense?

How is that a argument for self defence - conquest does not equal self defence period - its a paradox.

The Japanese government could have the US leave, the problem was that the PM did not have a enough support to get it done. In other words he made a promise that he couldn't keep.

The couldnt and cannot make the US leave - they have zero capicity do to so - just like the Brits couldnt make the Romans leave.

Like I said, there are many in the government that want them to stay. That was why the PM could not get them removed

No they dont - they scared of the US - thats like saying that there were many Brits that wanted the Romans to stay in England - By they way I like the way you ignore the mid east - has that would totaly make your argument meaningless.

Again you confuse two different situations. The Romans had their army in Britain to make sure that Britain remained a part of the Roman Empire. The US is not there in order to keep Japan a part of the United States.

They are the same except the Roman position being better as they actually benefited the British population - The US is there to defend its sphere of influence or empire. Again you ignore the mid east - being Naive?

 

[Zafran]

Why are we arguing with Titus? in his provincial mind and probably midwestern town, he would like to view it as a ghazw instead of fat7 in spite of what Egyptians say in spite of what history says.. let him have his moment.. is he convincing anyone -- other than his own person that is?

Salaam

I think hes confused - he came here to show us that the muslims were bad beacsue they conquered Egypt but he has no problem with a US militery base in Japan which has had some serious criticism from the population of Japan. Actaully hes defending it - Hes either being naive or is very confused.

Its intresting talking to people with a different angle.

 

[Zafran]

And you can keep living in your naive fantasy world in which everyone welcomed the Muslim invaders who conquered them.

Perhaps you have a mental picture of the victorious armies walking into towns with the local population strewing flower petals at the feet of the heroes?

You can live in a naive world where the people of Japan and the Mideast love america and its miltery bases!

 

[titus]

How is that a argument for self defence - conquest does not equal self defence period - its a paradox.

He said there were two choices given to the Muslims of the time.

1) Conquer your neighbors or
2) Be conquered by your neighbors

If that is not a self defense argument I don't know what is.

The couldnt and cannot make the US leave - they have xero capicity do to so - just like the Brits couldnt make the Romans leave.

The Brits would require military force to get the Romans to leave. That is not the case with Japan. The PM simply lacked the support in the government to get the US out.

Bad analogy.

They are the same except the Roman position being better as they actually benefited the British population

The Romans benefited the British population? You know they "benefitted" them against their will, right? There were constant rebellions.

The US is there to defend its sphere of influence or empire.

No doubt that is a major part of it.

Again you ignore the mid east - being Naive?

I suppose instead of military bases and payouts that the US should invade the Middle East and make it a part of the United States in order to liberate them? It would benefit them and they would be allowed to keep their way of life. The US would only ask that they pay the taxes to the US that they now pay to their own countries.

Then maybe 1400 years from now they will be talking about how nice it was of the US to conquer them.

 

[titus]

You can live in a naive world where the people of Japan and the Mideast love america and its miltery bases!

I have never claimed that.

 

[Zafran]

He said there were two choices given to the Muslims of the time.

1) Conquer your neighbors or
2) Be conquered by your neighbors

If that is not a self defense argument I don't know what is.

How is are the words conquest and self defence the same? How can you make an argumnet of conquest and self defence at the same time - nobody has so far - they would need to use the word self defence and not conquest. As both words are paradoxes.

The Brits would require military force to get the Romans to leave. That is not the case with Japan. The PM simply lacked the support in the government to get the US out.

Bad analogy.

No we'll use your method of thinking just like the people of Japan dont need an army neither did the Brits - they can just tell the brits to leave. Or even better too many Brits liked the Romans.

The Romans benefited the British population? You know they "benefitted" them against their will, right? There were constant rebellions

Like the rebelion of Boudicaa similar to ww2 and the Atomic Bomb.

I suppose instead of military bases and payouts that the US should invade the Middle East and make it a part of the United States in order to liberate them? It would benefit them and they would be allowed to keep their way of life. The US would only ask that they pay the taxes to the US that they now pay to their own countries.

Then maybe 1400 years from now they will be talking about how nice it was of the US to conquer them.

Nah the style of the US is to bomb, pay and run out - one of the problems of the US empire is that its terrible at taking over populations - It likes the cronies such as the royal family and mubarak to do that part for it. The US just pays them. They do the rest like gangsters. They dont want another Iraq.

 

[Zafran]

I have never claimed that.

Of course you have - your defending The US and its militery bases - you think they are there because the population chooses to have them -

 

[جوري]

And you can keep living in your naive fantasy world in which everyone welcomed the Muslim invaders who conquered them.

They were indeed, unless you hear otherwise from the horse's mouth.. here is one mare that attests that they were welcome in my mother land and we are grateful for what they've brought!

Salaam

I think hes confused - he came here to show us that the muslims were bad beacsue they conquered Egypt but he has no problem with a US militery base in Japan which has had some serious criticism from the population of Japan. Actaully hes defending it - Hes either being naive or is very confused.

Its intresting talking to people with a different angle.

I think he is simply under-educated.. westerners in general like to enjoy the self-proclaimed right to speak on behalf of others.. for instance a Muslim woman is oppressed and caged so they speak on her behalf to make her naked by law because in nakedness lies her liberation.
Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and the locals didn't like those weapons so on their behalf they invaded to rape and pillage destroy along with those mysterious weapons the ancient arts of Babylon and Samaria ..
Afghanistan is a cesspool for heroin addicts so they come invade steal what they can and keep the native body parts as souvenirs..

westerners know best.. why? well it should be obvious.. they have rated themselves and decided so..


These Quranic verses always comes to mind when I read or see anything done by these mindless cretins.

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ {11}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:11] And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.
أَلا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَـكِن لاَّ يَشْعُرُونَ {12}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:12] Are not they indeed the mischief-makers? But they perceive not.[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

 

[Argamemnon]

He said there were two choices given to the Muslims of the time.

1) Conquer your neighbors or
2) Be conquered by your neighbors

If that is not a self defense argument I don't know what is.

We also had to spread God's message because Islam is the true religion - you or others not believing it is irrelevant. Today we have other means to spread Islam and there is no need for wars.

 

[Ramadhan]

These Quranic verses always comes to mind when I read or see anything done by these mindless cretins.

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ {11}
[Pickthal 2:11] And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.
أَلا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَـكِن لاَّ يَشْعُرُونَ {12}
[Pickthal 2:12] Are not they indeed the mischief-makers? But they perceive not.

The verses certainly ring true even more so these days.

 

[aadil77]

The muslim world has lost all pride in islam, now its all about disassociating themselves from it