Egypt, Syria and the rest

[alcurad]

Revolutions take time, so I see no reason to despair.

Recognizing the different phases they go through will clarify this:

The first phase, where the regime gets rid of its weakest link. Remember mubarak/Bin Ali.

The second, where the old regime launches a counter revolution using its deep roots.
This already happened in Egypt, and they -I'll explain later- are attempting to spread it to Tunisia & Libya. The apathy bred into the general populace after so many decades of corrupt and dictatorial rule will not evaporate overnight, so this almost always happens after the euphoria fades a bit. Many ordinary people find they are not prepared to pay the price of true revolution.

The third phase, where the revolution absorbs the hit & lives, or doesn't & dies. in the former case, it doesn't matter how many months or years it takes, the old regime always falls.
We're seeing this now in Egypt, where the people -MB and others- have realized that a militant response will end up creating another Syria, and that the counter revolution can only survive for so long under intense public pressure. This is the appropriate response, as butting heads with the military directly is a recipe for disaster.

After that, it depends on the revolutionaries & their resolve/ingenuity/etc. Personally I believe Egypt -the rest following soon after- will be free pretty soon.

As for the enemy, its shown itself quite openly after the coup in Egypt:

1. The fascist regimes of Syria, Egypt's deep state, and potentially Tunisia if the revolution falters there. I call them fascist since they prop themselves up on their political opposition's skulls. The reason for that being their lack of popular support except what's gained through ultra nationalist propaganda and the like.

2. Those who supported the coup.

The division of labor is also easy to see:

1. The fascists provide the manpower & their witches and charlatans-the so called intellectuals- talk day and night about democracy, women's rights, minority rights, etc to hide their ugly nature. Their attempts at creating and hyping a "terrorist" threat by killing as many demonstrators as possible have largely failed though. In Syria's case the regime's stupidity has hastened the day it completely falls.

2. Money from the supporters. The trouble other countries are going through -caused in no small part by the tribals themselves- and the population's overwhelming dependance on oil handouts seems to be keeping a lid on things. Bear in mind even Saudi Arabia has seen small demonstrations about local grievances lately. Bahrain would have been free by now if not for the intervention of its neighbors. Once the coup fails in Egypt there will be a major backlash across the Arab world; I expect even the royals will crack.

Behind the backward tribals and fascists stand foreign backers or former colonial masters whose interest it is to see the people of the region disunited. See for example the US's course of action in the Gulf and through Israel though it seems to be coming to terms with the necessity of including "Islamists" in the political process,
Russia's in the Levant and potentially Egypt as well through Iran,
and France's in the Maghrib. Seeing this is all well and good, but they can only do so much. Once change takes hold they'll have to deal with the new reality.

Its high time the people of the region, whether they be Arab, Berber, Turkish, Kurdish or any other ethnicity, took matters into their own hands.
That time is now.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Thought this was a very interesting commentary on the Saudi reaction to the revolutions.


Saudi's internal power struggle sends ripples across international borders

Post-coup Egypt is only the start of Saudi Arabia's problems abroad, and the root cause may be old-fashioned courtly manoeuvring

The year is not ending on a high note for three men in the Saudi dynasty whose fingerprints were all over the military coup in Egypt – Prince Bandar, the current intelligence chief; Prince Muqrin, the intelligence chief he replaced, and an aspiring crown prince; and Khalid al-Tuwaijri, president of the royal court and the king's gatekeeper.

Bandar has become the target of rare criticism in the Saudi press. It is obliquely expressed, but it is unmistakably there. When the well-connected Saudi writer and journalist Jamal Khashoggi wrote in Al Hayat about "local and world intelligence men" no longer being able to change history, establish states or make new leaders, many of his readers understood that he was aiming that at Bandar.

The article continued: "It would be a mistake to defy the power of history with the illusion that the powerful can forge deals and plan the future away from the peoples whose divisions and lack of experience with democracy enabled local, regional and international forces to abuse them.

"Yet, these peoples continue to be in a state of liquidity and rage. They know what they want but they are confused about how to achieve it. What is certain is that they will not wait for a knight mounted on a white horse to lead them toward a new shining dawn. The one-man era is over."

By the standards of Saudi journalism, this is bold stuff. It's a reflection of the tensions between rival princes in the House of Saud and the policies that Bandar and his group, which include the current foreign minister, have been aggressively promoting. None of them are going well, and all are interconnected.

Egypt, which should have been pacified months ago, is still in a state of ferment. HA Hellyer, the Cairo-based analyst for the Royal United Services Institute, who is sharply critical of President Mohamed Morsi's failures in office, describes events since the coup in July as the most violent state-led crackdown against Egyptians in Egyptian modern history.

It is also expensive. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are bankrolling the paralysed state. Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the deputy prime minister of the UAE, dropped a bombshell during a visit by the Egyptian prime minister Hazem el-Beblawi by saying that Arab support for Egypt would not last long. The Emirati's latest tranche of aid of $3.9bn has been likened to giving blood transfusion to a patient who is bleeding continuously.

Egypt's debt problems (when Morsi was ousted the foreign and domestic debt was equivalent to 89% of Egypt's GDP) are not going to be helped by "Saudi-isation" – the attempt to lower the unemployment rate at home by reducing the number of foreign workers, some 9 million people. Hundreds of thousands of workers have already left the kingdom as the Saudi authorities launched a visa crackdown on undocumented workers. Three Ethiopian workers were killed in clashes in Riyadh.

But at least 700,000 Egyptian nationals – that's over a quarter of the 2.5 million Egyptian foreign workers – also face deportation. They provide much-needed income for the stagnant Egyptian economy, and were one reason why Morsi kept quiet about the Gulf state's role in destabilising his period in office.

Egypt is not the only front going wrong for Bandar. If the kingdom made little attempt to conceal its frustration when President Barack Obama opted not to bomb Bashar al-Assad's forces in Syria after the chemical attack, the current optimism surrounding six-nation talks with Iran in Geneva, and the prospect of a western rapprochment with Tehran, augurs even worse for the kingdom. Here is why.

Saudi Arabia's support for the military coup in Egypt has affected relations with another important regional player – Turkey, a living example of political Islam succeeding in a secular state. Turkey's ruling AKP government was a key backer of the ousted Morsi and Tunisia, where a Muslim Brotherhood coalition government still struggles on. The Saudi decision to pull the plug on Morsi has propelled Turkey into the arms of Riyadh's mortal foe: Iran. The Turkish president Abdullah Gul has invited his Iranian counterpart Hassan Rouhani to pay an official visit to Turkey. The moderate Iranian foreign minister Javad Zarif has described Iranian-Turkish relations as "deep-rooted and brotherly".

Bandar's war against political Islam has also made itself felt on Saudi's troubled border with Yemen. The need to combat the advance of Islamist group al-Islah in Yemen has led the Saudis to support Houthi militias – with whom the kingdom once went to war. A prominent Houthi, Saleh Habreh, was flown via London to meet the Saudi intelligence chief.

Tensions at home and abroad return to one central political fact in the kingdom: rival groups within the Saudi royal family vying for the old king's attention. As things stand, the crown prince is Prince Salman, who is thought to suffer from dementia. He has been nominated by the current king, but this is the last time that a king will be able to nominate a successor. If the crown passes to Salman, his crown prince will be nominated by a body called the allegiance council.

This body favours a rival to the Bandar group. He is Prince Ahmed, the youngest member of the Sudairi brothers, and who appears to be opposed to the direction that the Bandar group is taking Saudi foreign policy. To avert this, the Bandar group is attempting to persuade the king to replace Salman as crown prince with their candidate, Prince Muqrin, thus bypassing the troublesome allegiance council.

Intrigues within the royal court may explain why Saudi foreign policy, which has traditionally been discreet and cautious and conducted largely behind bead curtains, is so overt. It could all be a product of an age-old obsession of absolute monarchies – the battle for succession.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/21/saudi-power-struggles-egypt

 

[alcurad]

^ The Saudi's shot themselves in the foot by supporting the coup in Egypt & slapping Turkey's extended hand. Bandar's strategy -if it can be called that- failed miserably. Syria is in shambles and post coup Egypt is little better. Iran is now replacing those who couldn't see beyond their tiny fiefdoms and increasingly drying wealth. The royals need to stop depending on others to do their bidding. Hopefully they see the error & correct it before the region goes through what Europe went through during the world wars.

Iran & Israel are not in direct opposition; the rhetoric and fiery speeches are to hide their unspoken agreement to to divide the region between them. The only thing standing now between them and their goal are the brave souls in Syria and Egypt and nearby regions who sacrifice blood and treasure daily to stop the enemy.

 

[dcalling]

I don't understand why are you bad mouthing Iran. I think Turkey, Malaysia and Iran are the best of the Islam countries. Iran is not as prospers as Turkey because it stand up against the USA. US think Iran sponsors terror, but look at history, Iran people didn't kill any of the hostages during the hostage crisis, hostage taken by those students is just tactic, no terror. They are all democracies too, which I believe is how Allah wants its people to be ruled. Absolute power bring absolute corruption, just look the churches of the old days, and those head chopping rebels in Syria (there is one story that they kill the wrong person and apologized). Give those people a little bit of power and they will miss use them in great degree, and in the mean time give Allah a bad name (the Bible said the Lord commands not to use his name in vein).

The government in Syria, Egypt are corrupted government, if the rebel leaders there are half as good as Muhammad, they will win the country over (I read some stories of the life of Muhammad, and some of his actions are 180 degree comparison to some of those modern day Muslims. I can't remember the excats but there is one guy who just won't believe in him, and instead of just kill him he come up with a Sura on it, there is another about a boy (or guy) who keep defying him, his companion asked to kill him, but he said don't, if he is the dija, they won't be able to kill him, and if he is not, killing him is not good).

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Another update.


Egypt: back with a vengeance
The young Egyptians who created the popular networks which brought down the Mubarak regime are now being victimised by its successor


The skies are darkening over Egypt. The filing of fresh charges against deposed President Mohamed Morsi, the jailing of three prominent secular leaders of the 2011 revolution, and a savage attack on a provincial police headquarters, all in the same week, point to a future in which Egypt's politics will be conducted by violent means. How miserably different this is from the open and civilised democracy to which the revolution once seemed to be leading.

That revolution is now being torn up by its roots. The young Egyptians who created the popular networks which brought down the Mubarak regime are now being victimised by its successor. The three men sent to jail belonged to the April 6 Movement, established in early 2008 to support a strike by textile workers in Mahallah. Both April 6 and the broader Kifaya ("Enough") movement used Facebook and Twitter to organise and communicate. Such acts of defiance and solidarity, and the innovative use of new media, kept the tradition of radical secular opposition alive. These young people provided the rhetoric and skills which, along with the Tunisian example, helped the Egyptian revolution to succeed.

The symbol of the April 6 movement was a raised fist. But Egypt now has rulers who are determined that fist will never be raised against them again. Two co-founders of the movement, Ahmed Maher and Mohamed Adel, have been sentenced to three years, along with another activist, Ahmed Douma. They broke a new law which effectively bans demonstrations. This followed a raid on the Egyptian Centre for Economic and Social Rights in which staff were beaten, and Mr Adel arrested. It is now evident that the Egyptian military, behind its unconvincing civilian facade, is ready to be as hard on its secular as on its religious opponents. It duly demonstrated its even-handed repressiveness by filing the fresh charges against Mr Morsi, accusing him of murdering protesters and of a plot to bring down the Mubarak government with help from abroad. The death penalty could apply to Mr Morsi and to others charged with him if they are found guilty.

Governments reap what they sow. Tuesday's bombing of a police headquarters in Mansoura was followed by a declaration by the Egyptian cabinet that the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organisation. It is not at all established that the Brotherhood was responsible. But Mansoura shows what happens when legitimate political expression ceases to be possible. The revolution decapitated the Egyptian security state, based on the army, the police and the business elite, by removing Mubarak. But it has grown a new head, and it is now back, quite literally, with a vengeance.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/25/egypt-back-with-a-vengeance

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam


Hosni Mubarak asks to vote in Egypt's constitutional referendum
Lawyer says ousted former dictator, who is currently in Cairo military hospital, wants to vote in favour of constitution


The former Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak has asked to vote in the country's constitutional referendum, his lawyer said.

Mubarak, who is facing a retrial over his role in the killing of protesters during the 2011 uprising that unseated him, was released from prison in August and is at a Cairo military hospital.

"He wants to vote," Mubarak's lawyer, Fareed el-Deeb, said. "Of course it would be yes for the constitution."

Egyptians would never have dreamed of voting in any kind of fair election during Mubarak's era. Apart from an experiment with more open elections in 2005, polls were mostly described as a 99% victory for the former air force commander and his ruling party.

It was not immediately clear whether Mubarak would be allowed to vote. A spokesman for the Supreme Committee for Elections said it had not received any requests from Mubarak's lawyer.

A judicial source said there were no legal obstacles to his voting, but given the security restrictions around the hospital the logistics could be complicated.

The army, which deposed the Islamist president Mohamed Morsi in July after mass protests against his rule, has promised that a political road map starting with the constitutional referendum will lead to free and fair elections for the presidency and parliament.

Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood has accused the army-backed government of trying to turn the clock back to the Mubarak era. The army chief, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who ousted Morsi, is widely expected to run for president and win. He ran military intelligence under Mubarak.

Former leftist presidential candidate Hamdeen Sabahi was prevented from voting in the referendum because authorities had registered him at a polling station in Saudi Arabia, his political movement, The Popular Current, said in a statement.

The mistake represented evidence that the voter databases needed revising, the statement quoted Sabahi as saying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/14/hosni-mubarak-asks-vote-egypts-constitutional-referendum

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam


Egypt government holds vote on new constitution amid deadly violence

Clashes between security forces and supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi leave at least 11 dead


Pro-government Egyptians defied a series of fatal clashes on Tuesday to vote for the first time in the post-Morsi era, on the first day of a polarising referendum boycotted by both the Muslim Brotherhood and leftist groups but portrayed by the government and most media as a make or break moment in Egyptian history.

Most polling stations were calm, with up to 160,000 soldiers policing voting queues across the country. But at least 11 people died in three provinces as security forces clashed with supporters of the ousted president Mohamed Morsi.

Shortly before polls opened, a bomb also exploded outside a courthouse in north-west Cairo in what one police official claimed was an attempt by extremists to discourage participation in the referendum. There were no injuries.

The referendum, which continues on Wednesday, ostensibly seeks national consent for a series of amendments to Egypt's constitution. But the state and its supporters have also positioned it as not just a poll on the text's contents, but as a ratification of Morsi's overthrow, and as the only means of re-establishing order in a country ravaged by three years of post-revolutionary chaos.

"Voting is a national duty that should be exercised," said interim president Adly Mansour, who was installed by the army following Morsi's removal, as he voted in Cairo. "Your votes are not only on the constitution, but on the entire roadmap for Egypt's future as well."

Many yes voters agreed that the importance of the constitution's passage, which will set in motion the process for presidential and parliamentary elections, outweighed any problems within the text itself. "I can't read," admitted Romani Kamel, a carpenter voting near the Cairo bomb blast. "But I voted yes because [the constitution] is a symbol of stability and progress. The country stopped under the Brotherhood. Now everything will get better, and tourism will come back."

As a soldier, General Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, the army chief who ousted Morsi in July, is not allowed to vote – but he was cheered by crowds as he inspected a polling station in north-east Cairo. The vote has particular significance for Sisi, who hinted on Saturday that he would regard a strong turnout and a high yes vote as a mandate to run for office.

An army spokesman applauded what he called the referendum's "historic turnout", and regime supporters circulated photographs of long voting queues. But no corroborating polling figures were released, and the reality was impossible to judge. Some anecdotal reports even suggested that voter apathy had rendered turnout – albeit with one day of voting left – no higher than in a previous poll in December 2012. "I'm tired of politics," sighed Ahmed, a kiosk owner in central Cairo, when asked if he would vote.

But in Kerdasa – a town just west of Cairo where pro-Morsi extremists allegedly killed around a dozen policemen in August, and where fatal clashes broke out at lunchtime – some voters were eager to show their support for both Sisi and the constitution.

"Yes to Sisi," said 50-year-old housewife Khadr Abdel Salem, when asked how she voted. "But this is for the constitution," Salem's friend reminded her. "Yes," Salem replied, "but it's the same thing."

A nearby news stand highlighted the prism through which many Egyptians have been encouraged to view the referendum. "Today is judgment day," said the front page of Dostour, a pro-government broadsheet. "Today is the difference between freedom and slavery," said another paper, al-Shaab. Amid such fervour, few have been either willing or given the space to express an alternative view – and most journalists could not find a single person planning to vote no. The main party driving the no campaign, Strong Egypt, claimed 35 of its activists had been arrested while on the campaign trail, and opted to boycott the referendum on Monday. Human Rights Watch said that seven had been charged.

"It's a fake process," said Mohamed el-Baqr, an official with Strong Egypt, a moderate Islamist party that called for Morsi's early departure but opposed his usurpers' subsequent crackdown on dissent. "The choice on the ballot paper is effectively between a box for yes, and a box for handcuffs."

Here and there, people gave hints of dissent. Morsi supporters flashed four-fingered pro-Morsi salutes outside polling stations, before hurrying away. A newspaper vendor in Kerdasa made sure the Guardian saw the one pro-Morsi newspaper among a raft of pro-constitution front-pages. "Just in case you thought everyone felt like that," he said with a wink, before admitting he was boycotting the poll.

On many walls in Kerdasa, someone had stamped sectarian graffiti against the referendum. "Boycott the Pope's constitution," read one slogan, which appeared to incite hatred of Christians by claiming that the Coptic pope was behind the referendum.

Amid the focus on its symbolism, the contents of the constitution have been largely ignored. Supporters praise it for having largely removed pro-Islamist sections from Morsi's version and for potentially paving the way to better education, healthcare and women's rights.

Secular opponents say it is not the revolutionary document they expected after the removal of two presidents. In particular, they are concerned about clauses that variously allow for civilians to be tried in certain contexts in army courts, curb workers' rights and limit religious freedoms to members of the three Abrahamic religions.

The text is opposed by most Islamist groups, with one notable exception: the ultraconservative Salafi Nour party, the second-largest group in Egypt's last parliament. One-time Morsi allies, the Nour party claimed in 2012 that even Morsi's 2012 constitution was not conservative enough. But 13 months on, Nour said it will support the new secular-slanted text on pragmatic grounds: to allow it to continue to play a role in the political scene.

"If we said no the constitution would pass by smaller percentage, but it would still pass, and the Nour party would have sacrificed their role in the roadmap," said Nader Bakkar, the party spokesman.

The referendum is monitored by hundreds of local observers and 83 overseas delegates from Democracy International, paid for by the US government. "But just by being here, we're not making a statement that the process is legitimate or illegitimate," DI's head of mission, Dan Murphy, told the Guardian. Another US-based group, the Carter Centre, only sent a small delegation after being deeply concerned by the "narrowed political space surrounding the upcoming referendum".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/14/egypt-vote-constitution-deadly-violence

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

^ The Saudi's shot themselves in the foot by supporting the coup in Egypt & slapping Turkey's extended hand. Bandar's strategy -if it can be called that- failed miserably. Syria is in shambles and post coup Egypt is little better. Iran is now replacing those who couldn't see beyond their tiny fiefdoms and increasingly drying wealth. The royals need to stop depending on others to do their bidding. Hopefully they see the error & correct it before the region goes through what Europe went through during the world wars.

Iran & Israel are not in direct opposition; the rhetoric and fiery speeches are to hide their unspoken agreement to to divide the region between them. The only thing standing now between them and their goal are the brave souls in Syria and Egypt and nearby regions who sacrifice blood and treasure daily to stop the enemy.

The Saudi strategy has been a shambles? Thats one way of putting it :skeleton:.

Whats interesting about the Saudis is that they too have close relationship with the Israelis, not that they want it to be known of course.


Saudi Prince praises Livni at Munich Security conference
By LAHAV HARKOV

02/02/2014 08:55

Justice minister exchanges words with Saudi Prince Turki bin Faisal during panel discussion at German conference.

Justice Minister Tzipi Livni is the right person to lead Israel’s negotiating team, Saudi Prince Turki bin Faisal said at the Munich Security Conference Friday.

Livni’s office confirmed Sunday that during a question and answer session at the end of a panel on the peace process, featuring Livni, Chief PLO Negotiator Saeb Erekat and American Envoy Martin Indyk, the Saudi prince asked Livni about the Arab Peace Initiative.

At the end of the panel discussion, bin Faisal praised Livni, saying he “understands why [she was] chosen to be Israel’s negotiator.”

“If only you could sit on the same stage with me and talk about it,” Livni responded, hinting at a desire to upgrade reported secret ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia to more open ones.

Livni also called the Arab initiative a positive development, and said Israeli leadership believes that the price of not reaching a peace treaty will be higher than that of signing one.

The Arab Peace Initiative, introduced in 2002 under the auspices of the Arab League, entails full normalization between Israel and the surrounding Arab countries in exchange for a withdrawal to the pre-1967 lines.

The Saudi prince, former ambassador to Washington who also headed his government’s intelligence apparatus, is thought to be a powerful emissary in the eyes of Western diplomats given his intimate familiarity with Riyadh’s foreign policymakers.

http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/saudis-on-board/





 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum...Nice Share brother Junon,

The Saudi decision to pull the plug on Morsi has propelled Turkey into the arms of Riyadh's mortal foe: Iran. The Turkish president Abdullah Gul has invited his Iranian counterpart Hassan Rouhani to pay an official visit to Turkey. The moderate Iranian foreign minister Javad Zarif has described Iranian-Turkish relations as "deep-rooted and brotherly".

...would like to add on this a bit, that it is correct that Turkey is actually mending its relationship with Iran and it has to, maybe not only because what Saudis have done in Egypt by over throwing Morsi, but because of a few other important reasons...

First Turkey actually thought that they would be able to play the leadership role among the revolutionaries in the so called Arab Spring, among Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc, as they have held a leadership role in the face of Ottoman Empire in the past and also because of what happened during Flotilla event when Turkey took a harsh stand against Israel and also during Gaza bombings a few years ago. This made the ruling AKP Govt in Turkey (which is also an Islamic party) a brave Muslim leadership in the eyes of many around the Middle East with Tayyip being the Hero. With this image, Turkey thought it could help NATO (being a NATO member) overthrow these govts in Libya, Egypt and Syria and play an even a greater leadership role. With this in mind, when NATO started bombing libya, the Naval Blockade in the Mediterranean was created by Turkey and after the fall of Gaddafi, Tayyip Erdogan when entered Benghazi on a visit, the whole city was decorated with Flags of Turkey. In Egypt they supported the fall of Mubarak with others thinking that the brotherhood in Egypt I beleive would in turn help the Syrian Brother hood (suppressed by the Assad Family since the 70s) got support in Syria.

However, this foreign policy of inciting the Arab Spring and the dream of Turkish Leadership in the Middle East, started to back fire gradually when the protests by opposition groups began in Turkey against the AKP party due to the terrorism being spread inside Turkey because of Turkish training and arming the fighters to cross inside Syria, which in turn weakened the Turkish Economy, even recent reports of Turkey supplying arms to Al Qaeda has been exposed in Turkish Media tranishing the image of the present govt further http://rt.com/op-edge/turkey-al-qaeda-syria-486/

Turkey is a energy starved country and most of their energy sources lie in Russia and Iran! Turkey had to mend strained ties with them ASAP, after the successful nuclear deal between the Major Powers and Iran, before it would create further hurdles to their energy supplies, which had already been created due to US and EU sanctions on Iran. This was hurting the economy of Turkey resulting in protests. http://rt.com/op-edge/turkey-iran-sanctions-corruption-scandal-883/

Iran and Russia are Turkey's only and major energy suppliers http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/01/26/347870/turkish-pm-due-in-iran-to-improve-ties/

So I believe this is the reason for the recent change in the Pro NATO/GCC Turkish foreign policy.

 

[syed_z]

The Saudi strategy has been a shambles? Thats one way of putting it .

Whats interesting about the Saudis is that they too have close relationship with the Israelis, not that they want it to be known of course.

The Saudi Strategy is a failure actually, and your right that the Israelis are allies of the House of Saud, no doubt about it, but don't you think if the USA and West in general which is a strongest supporter of Israel and their policies are controlled by the Zionist Lobby, when strikes a deal with Iran, then it is being done without involving Israel? ...obviously impossible, any deal with Washington is done with Israel's blessings.

Now Iran is on the way of having good relations with USA (indirectly with Israel) and is already an ally of Russia, and China. While Saudi Arabia who was depending on USA/West all this time to back them against Syria and Iran have abandoned them....

 

[syed_z]

don't understand why are you bad mouthing Iran. I think Turkey, Malaysia and Iran are the best of the Islam countries. Iran is not as prospers as Turkey because it stand up against the USA. US think Iran sponsors terror, but look at history, Iran people didn't kill any of the hostages during the hostage crisis, hostage taken by those students is just tactic, no terror.

Iran didn't kill any hostages was, yes you maybe right could be because they obviously didnt want to slaughter them as it would be a barbaric act, makes sense because at the end of the day the Muslims in Iran did stand up against the oppression.

But there is also another side of the story, and this is the Contra Iran Affair. Try doing some research on the hostage crises and Contra affair, as Iran got a deal of weapons supply from Israel if they were to release those prisoners, which Iran needed badly to counter the state of the art weapons of Saddam Hussein whom the Saudi Regime and USA were backing to attack Iran after its revolution to weaken them, but also on the other hand they were planning for Saddam to be weakened as well, playing both sides of the game.

Also, not to forget, Iran is a firm supporter, and a backer of Nur Ul Maliki Govt in Baghdad which has been oppressing and killing the Iraqis, all, Shia, Sunni (Mainly), Kurds (not any more as they have their autonomous region now) through its Death Squads operating under the Interior and Defense Ministries trained and fully supported by US Military! These SWAT forces or similar Special forces units are killing Sunnis and oppressing them to suppress their natural right to equally rule as a partner in the Govt in Baghdad.

 

[Akeyi]

LET ME MAKE THIS VERY STRAIGHT

There was once a man who came to ottoman empire to study our greatness which is islam. They wanted to learn what made ottoman empire very great which was islam but they could not accept it but that is another subject.

This man was allowed to watch courthouses. Which ottoman empire has very good islamic culture for courthouses but that is another subject. What i mean is putting 4 imam to corner of the fetwa room is a tradition from ottoman empire. First for hanefi second for hanbeli like that.

This man said your courts are very fast. We wait for days to solve a very small case. Then hundreds of years later ottoman empire collapsed . Why it is collapsed is another subject.

Then some guy forced us to be exactly like the countries defeated us. So we begin to use infidel's laws. Even though israel who one of the greatest islam enemies USED OTTOMAN EMPIRE'S SHARIA LAW UNTIL 1960s. I dont know the exact date.

Then our cases begin to last weeks.

Then a very smart historiker said.

If your uncle dies it takes years to solve his heritage under this laws. A whole empire collapsed how can you expect its heritage to last years.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaamn

This is interesting, like to share.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

New perspectives on the Syrian conflict. A little old but relevant.

Saudi Arabia's role in the Syrian civil war

Turkey's interests in the Syrian civil war

Why does Russia support Syria's al-Assad?

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

An up to date rebel prespective.