'End of virginity' if women drive, Saudi cleric warns

[Abz2000]

Well I have to mention that I've heard many times contrary to this negative image, people of Medina are quiet different with amazing manners, Subhanallah
Husband told me its because Prophet Muhammad prayed for them, those who went for Hajj & visit the Prophet's mosque can testify to this perhaps.

yes, they smile when talking to you, you see them as brothers and sisters in a totally different way, it's a feeling of calm and laid-backness,
makkah however is a merchant town and everything about it seems busy,
it's difficult to describe.

 

[Muhaba]

Saudi women are not allowed to drive. If they want to go to a place, they are driven by men. Saudi women are obligated to wear niqab that cover their faces, except eyes. But many of them have beautiful eyes.

Their beautiful eyes can attract men. Men who attracted to beautiful eyes woman that they see in public area, usually will follow this woman to know where is she lives, or record the car plate number that ride by this woman. But they didn't do further because they afraid to a man who guard this woman. If women drive in Saudi Arabia without adult male, those men will chase them.

This is information that I got from several sources in Saudi Arabia.

Majority of ulama in the world allow women drive car, even alone, as long as meet certain conditions. But if we ask those ulama "should women drive car without mahram in Saudi Arabia?" maybe all of them will answer "no!".

Situation in Saudi Arabia is different. There is a bad image of Saudi men as men who can't see women without doing something wrong. Not all of them, of course. But according to some sources in Saudi Arabia, at there we can find men like this in everywhere.


Shaykh Muqbil from Yemen is a non-Saudi scholar who prohibit women to drive car except in emergency situation. Different than Saudi Ulama who prohibit women to drive without
exception.

And in a statement, Shaykh Muqbil said "We can't say this (prohibition for women to drive) is haram". This is because there is no any daleel in Islam that can be used to prohibit women control car as driver. Woman traveling alone is different matter.

Like I have written, ulama can prohibit ummah do something that actually halal as non-Shar'i prohibition. But unfortunately I have found some fatawa that clearly classify this prohibition as Shar'i Haram which those who break this prohibition get sin.


In my place, if an old ustadz see a man tease a woman, he will beat this man with his rattan stick. But unfortunately, in some other cultures, in situation like this they will blame the women, not the men.

i don't really agree with what you wrote about Saudi men being so immoral that they will follow women around. if they are, then they can follow women around even more easily when women are walking.

as for making something halal haram, it is wrong and even the Prophet (SAW) didn't make anything halal haram. He specifically said on one occasion (concerning Ali R's decision to marry a second wife) that he (SAW) wasn't making something halal haram because noone other than Allah has the right to say that somethng is halal or haram.

the ullama do say that a thing should be made prohibited if it leads to haram but the fact is that the thing being made prohibited is already wrong. like prohibiting mixing of men and women because it will lead to immorality / zina. in this case, mixing of men and women is already an unislamic thing.

 

[ardianto]

i don't really agree with what you wrote about Saudi men being so immoral that they will follow women around. if they are, then they can follow women around even more easily when women are walking.

Assalamualaikum, sister.

There is a brother who sometime I discuss and even learn Islam from him. As far I know, he never said haram for women to drive car. However, special for prohibition in Saudi Arabia, he support it. And he said, it because he got information about situation in Saudi Arabia from brothers who live there.

It motivate me to looking for information about situation in Saudi Arabia. And I found some information from Saudi brothers that similar than information that received by brother who I mention above. what I've witten in that post was sourced from brothers who live in Saudi Arabia.

There is image of people in a community. Image of Brazilian men are footballers, image of Japanese men are hard workers. But image of Saudi men?. Sis, image of Saudi men as people who cannot see women without doing something wrong is image that known by other people in the world.

I understand if Saudi brothers want to angry to me, I will accept their anger. But I never say all Saudi men are same. There are many good Saudi men, but unfortunately other people do not know about it. Only Saudi people themselves who can change this negative image into positive image. I hope good Saudi brother can do something.

as for making something halal haram, it is wrong and even the Prophet (SAW) didn't make anything halal haram. He specifically said on one occasion (concerning Ali R's decision to marry a second wife) that he (SAW) wasn't making something halal haram because noone other than Allah has the right to say that somethng is halal or haram.

the ullama do say that a thing should be made prohibited if it leads to haram but the fact is that the thing being made prohibited is already wrong. like prohibiting mixing of men and women because it will lead to immorality / zina. in this case, mixing of men and women is already an unislamic thing.

Like I have said, ulama can forbid ummah do or use something that halal but cannot make this prohibition as "Shar'i Haram" which those who break this prohibition get sin (and punishment in hell). It has confirmed by a local Islamic teacher, he told me, change law like this is not allowed because we cannot change Sharia.

Driving car is an activity which someone control a mobile machine that called car. This activity is permissible for men and also for women. If a woman drive car with intention to meet a non-hahram man, ulama can say it haram because the intention and action in this case can lead to zina. But driving the car itself is not haram.

My reason to make statement "ulama can prohibit ummah do something that actually halal as non-Shar'i prohibition. But unfortunately I have found some fatawa that clearly classify this prohibition as Shar'i Haram which those who break this prohibition get sin" is because I found some people made fatwa/statement "Driving car is Haram for women", and what they meant clearly Shar'i haram because they also talked about punishment in hell for women who drive car. This is the reason why they still prohibit women to drive although their mahram are in the car.

 

[Riana17]

yes, they smile when talking to you, you see them as brothers and sisters in a totally different way, it's a feeling of calm and laid-backness,
makkah however is a merchant town and everything about it seems busy,
it's difficult to describe.

Alhamdollellah, you been there? Mashallah, now I am jealous

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Reading the comments make me dislike Saudi men and think they are perverts!!

Hijab is simply not good enough for these men. I will say this; Saudi women will never prosper in any field in that society. They will continue to rely on non Muslim and Muslim woman from aboard to be physiotherapist, doctors, nurses etc etc.

And their men are too good to use their cars to meet another women. The saudi men are all angels and would never do such a thing. the women are devils and will use cars to meet other men. These women have nothing but bad thoughts on their mind. ^o)

 

[ardianto]

Reading the comments make me dislike Saudi men and think they are perverts!!

Hijab is simply not good enough for these men. I will say this; Saudi women will never prosper in any field in that society. They will continue to rely on non Muslim and Muslim woman from aboard to be physiotherapist, doctors, nurses etc etc.

And their men are too good to use their cars to meet another women. The saudi men are all angels and would never do such a thing. the women are devils and will use cars to meet other men. These women have nothing but bad thoughts on their mind.

Astaghfirullah. Sis, even I who reveal a reality that Saudi men have bad image is not dare to say like this.

Not all Saudi men are bad.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Astaghfirullah. Sis, even I who reveal a reality that Saudi men have bad image is not dare to say like this.

Not all Saudi men are bad.

There was a time where I defended them to death. They can’t even handle their women in a car because it too much fitna. That is ridiculous and obviously they regard themselves highly because they seem to allow themselves to use the car and their women are obviously devil and simply cannot be trusted.

Why the hell should I respect that? They obviously think they are superior then their other half. Speak to them, they think and act like they are better than every women!

Dont worry, I dont rate their women highly either! And Saudi people are not the only people I dont rate highly! I also think British people are hypocrites...

 

[GuestFellow]

Dont worry, I dont rate their women highly either! And Saudi people are not the only people I dont rate highly! I also think British people are hypocrites...

Salaam,

Who are you to judge an entire population? Treat everyone as individuals.

 

[Ramadhan]

This proves again, that Al Qur'an is still as relevant now as it was 1,400 years, even in the land where Muhanmmad (saw) was born and where the people speak the language of Al Qur'an:

"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts'' (Qur'an 24:30)
"Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts'' (Qur'an 24:31)
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)

It does seem that saudi women are already able to fulfill their obligation per Allah command in regard to keeping themselves covered, however it also does seem that saudi men are only able to fulfill their obligation (or they feel they are weak) by asking the women to do more than they are required.

 

[Riana17]

Astaghfirullah. Sis, even I who reveal a reality that Saudi men have bad image is not dare to say like this.

Not all Saudi men are bad.

Astaghfirullah

[h=1]Look at yourself before judging others…[/h]by Saad on April 15, 2008 in Chill Yo Islam Yo
Salam,
Their are two things which go hand in hand, one is to internalize criticism and the other is judging yourself before judging others. Let’s accept it, No one is perfect, we aren’t angels.
We gotta constantly discipline our soul and most importantly be aware of our actions, because the Angels are writing down, and it don’t stop till your soul leaves your body. Look at yourself in the mirror, ask yourself What kind of a person am I? Evaluate your performance as a believer.
The question for today is do we put ourselves above other people when we approach them. You already know the devil is working hard to kick that pride in us, but that’s a disease of the heart and we gotta work on that Inshallah.
The Prophet saw said: “No one with the slightest particle of arrogance in his heart will enter paradise.”
A man remarked, “But a man likes his clothes to be nice and his sandals good.” The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “Verily, Allah is beautiful and loves beauty. Arrogance is refusing to acknowledge what is right and considering others beneath one.” (Mishkat al-Masabih)
What a beautiful Hadith, to put things into perspective, basically by judging others you energize that pride and start thinking your all pious. Chill Yo that’s Haraam Yo. See the interesting thing about living life as a Muslim is that to reaffirm your faith you gotta ask yourself, Am I living by the Sunnah? Do I follow the commands of Allah swt? If not then how can you expect a return in the hereafter. It’s all relative and we gotta stick to the principles. Remember Heaven or Hell can mean a blink of an eye.
Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said: ” The world and the hereafter are like the east and west, and the traveler is between them. To the extent that he draws close to one, he distances himself from the other” (Ibid., 647.) So basically make up your mind. Either you go wild right now and suffer in the hereafter or you chill out, attain taqwa and chill in paradise.
Nowadays we have this wildfire spreading in peoples minds that they are quick to judge other people. Not only that, but they also like to spread rumors and if one wants to change they continue to backbite or bring up incidents from the past. As a result this destroys motivation for the individual who wants to change.
Of course it shouldn’t, we should all recognize that we are accountable to Allah (swt) alone and from him we come and to him we shall return. If a believer is making an effort to strive for good and you keep knocking him off the straight path. Then just accept that your the devils advocate.
The reason why I bought this up is because I feel that we might at times be driven with the mentality to point out other’s mistakes and elevate ourselves above others. The bottom line is we don’t know who Allah (swt) loves more. So stamp this Hadith in your heart.
Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace and salutations be upon him) said, “ Should you become eager to mention another’s faults, recall your own. “ (Ar-Rafi)
At the end of it all, we gotta understand when someone tells us something for our own benefit, its to help us. It’s that simple, don’t assume that he or she is trying to put you down, If you do that I promise you will never change. This is something we are all working on to some degree everyday, the better we get the more impact we will see in our life.
May Allah (swt) help us take constructive criticism and give us understanding of the deen and dunya! Ameen…don’t get it twisted.


http://chillyoislamyo.com/look-at-yourself-before-judging-others/

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Salaam,

Who are you to judge an entire population? Treat everyone as individuals.

I tend to treat people as individual if I meet them because I don’t ask or care where they come from.
Saudi people, however as whole are hypocrites and judgemental especially since most of them support this ruling and support other ills in their own society. And there is something seriously wrong with their men if they have to go above and beyond what is recommended in Islam.

plus, a lot of muslims look up to them and think everything they are doing is right.

 

[GuestFellow]

I tend to treat people as individual if I meet them because I don’t ask or care where they come from.
Saudi people, however as whole are hypocrites and judgemental especially since most of them support this ruling and support other ills in their own society. And there is something seriously wrong with their men if they have to go above and beyond what is recommended in Islam.

plus, a lot of muslims look up to them and think everything they are doing is right.

Salaam,

The problem is your generalising. Not everyone is the same. What evidence is there that most Saudi people are hypocrites and judgemental? I just don't think it is wise to make an assumption about an entire population.

Though there is an element of truth in what your saying.

 

[esperanza]

salam
it is wrong to critiise saudis as a whole..do you live among saudis.or do you know many saudis personally...i dont think you just go by things you have heard...every nation every culture has good and bad among them,,,

 

[IslamicRevival]

Can this thread be locked now? Its pretty annoying seeing this pop up in the new posts every time.

 

[Riana17]

Asalam,

I live in GCC so I can talk about them

Due to lack of education we think Saudis are closed minded

But for I know they are the most hard working people in Gulf country and most kind, and our dear Prophet is from Saudi and the Sahabaas etc, sure thing there are many exceptional Saudi people now and before, Prophet's good deeds cannot be forgotten and people are trying hard to follow them.

But then how can we know, for we can barely know ourselves?

In my native Christian country, Govt or church implements one wife, whereas an average man has 2-5 girlfriends, 2-10 children out of wedlock, mostly do not go to church at all but still claims they are Christians and talk proudly about Christ, celebrates Christmas but doesnt know what Christmas is all about, we are also famous in doing charities... yes when in television
so much things to share to you

But do I talk they are all hypocrite in public? I dont coz I ashame to say that, I am aware of situation coz im not ignorant, but dare I say it all ? I myself is a sinner how can I put all the nation down, I can talk about a person or small group but this is outrageous to label them all


Only Allah knows the pure truth. Let's try to avoid and remind ourselves that we can be one of the people we hate so much one day. May Allah protect our mouth and our path. Amen

 

[Muezzin]

Earlier in this thread, Sister Insaanah presented the facts pertaining to this article, and clarified that the opinion expressed did not necessarily reflect that of the Majlis Shura.

The wider issue of the right of Saudi women to drive does deserve discussion, but we must be careful not to tar all Saudis with the same brush when so doing.

Because all discussion of the actual article that generated this thread has ceased, it seems appropriate to close it.