ENGLAND: Home of the Islamophobe extremists...

[observer]

Because this murder was equally gruesome when someone gets hacked in his chest with a machete. And the murder against the muslim man was also for political reasons.

What were the political reasons? Given that they haven't found the killer yet?

 

[Independent]

And the murder against the muslim man was also for political reasons.

How do you know this? From all the reports I have seen, they don't know who killed him, or why. It may or may not be racist. It may or may not be religiously motivated. There could be a personal reason we don't know about. Nobody knows.

 

[جوري]

How do you know this?

I suppose the same way you knew the Chechen boys (who had never seen the inside of a courtroom) were guilty of ''terrorism'' via trial by media!

best,

 

[observer]

I suppose the same way you knew the Chechen boys (who have never seen the inside of a courtroom) were guilty of terrorism via trial by media!

best,

So what were the political reasons of this murder?

 

[جوري]

So what were the political reasons of this murder?

What were their political reasons?

 

[observer]

What were their political reasons?

I don't know, there's been no trial yet.

 

[جوري]

I don't know, there's been no trial yet.

Indeed.. perhaps it wasn't your battle to fight but the one who had previously wowed us with a 20+ page declaration of the guilt of the two men one of whom was dead at the scene as if to silence him and the only claim to guilt is a man who should have been comatose of his injuries not picking folks from line up?
I only point it out so when we question credibility and intent next he wouldn't feel so victimized and run to the mods for help!

best,

 

[Independent]

I suppose the same way you knew the Chechen boys (who had never seen the inside of a courtroom) were guilty of ''terrorism'' via trial by media!

Obviously, it's reasonable to speculate about the motives of the Chechen bombers (because we know who they are and they told us their motives themselves) versus the murderer of Mr Saleem (because we don't know who did it, so anything we say is entirely speculative).

Please don't derail yet another thread with an irrelevant debate about Boston.

 

[جوري]

Obviously, it's reasonable to speculate about the motives of the Chechen bombers (because we know who they are and they told us their motives themselves) versus the murderer of Mr Saleem (because we don't know who did it, so anything we say is entirely speculative).

Please don't derail yet another thread with an irrelevant debate about Boston.

Nope there's nothing reasonable about your speculations, they didn't tell us their motives- I have never heard them speak in fact. One of them was silenced right there and then.. All you've done is conjecture based on the testimony of a phony and then you perpetuate your rumor half way around the globe. So please spare us the charade, I don't understand how you have the galls to show your face in here asking questions which you so obviously exempt yourself from answering.
You've NO CREDIBILITY, none whatsoever!
I am not derailing threads btw just exposing you for the members, if they don't already know what you're all about!

best,

 

[Independent]

they didn't tell us their motives- I have never heard them speak in fact.

Dzhokar did talk in hospital and there are any number of other indications to his influences and interests. (I can't help it if you choose not to believe any of them - either way, there is enough evidence to speculate with.) Whereas with Mr Saleem, the only thing that makes the killing seem out of the ordinary is that the murderer did not take his wallet (therefore suggesting it wasn't a mugging that went wrong). We don't even know for sure if his assailant was white, or even if he was a Muslim too. Maybe we will find this out soon - but today, no.

 

[جوري]

Dzhokar did talk in hospital .

Really shot in the throat and can talk and all? You're a funny guy, but I enjoy see you squirm and tighten the noose around your neck with each post.
Quit the padding and cut the crap!

best,

 

[Independent]

Really shot in the throat and can talk and all? You're a funny guy, but I enjoy see you squirm and tighten the noose around your neck with each post

Like I said, you are derailing this thread with tedious conspiracy theories you have already rehearsed again, and again, and again in previous threads.

 

[جوري]

tedious is what you are- and fiction is what you dish out yes!


best,

 

[GodIsAll]

No one "knows" squat about either case.
We are all fed what the powers that want us to believe or to interpret. I don't trust any media source any more...from any perspective. They all have agendas. We are all subjected to immense psychological propaganda machines.

"Freedom of The Press", yeah, right.

Ah, I love you all, I really do...I want so badly for us to have peace, to have the truth, and to make decisions made on what we are actually supposed to do by divine direction.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Let's get back on topic.

Look at this from the positive angle. If I am not mistaken (I am not a Muslim scholar) Islam teaches us to see the good in everything that happens to us. So what good can we learn from what happened in Woolwich? Here are a couple of good things which I can see:

1. It's high time for the Muslim community to take pro-active action and not just send out 'totally condemn' announcements after things have happened. I believe, since Islam is being attacked in cyber space, then cyber space is a very good place to start. Not by attacking other people but by loudly and clearly stating the truth from the Islamic viewpoint whenever and wherever a lie about Islam is being published in cyber space. The way I see it, there is no such thing as the silent majority. When you see something that is wrong and you keep quiet about it, you are actually giving support to the very thing that is wrong.

2. I am not exactly sure about how our Muslim brethen live in the UK but I have an inkling that, if they live like the Muslims I have met here, they are be living in some kind of casual isolation from the rest of the general populace. Not strictly segregated from non-Muslims but perhaps having as little as possible to do with non-Muslims. I think this is a good time to start thinking about how the Holy Prophet and his Companions lived. Did they live in isolation or did they live and interact with the non-Muslims of their time? I believe it is time for us who love Islam and make a point to live like Muslims to take a outreach-like approach with the non-Muslims. Let us interact with the non-Muslims and share the truth, which is that we are Muslims and also human beings at the same time, not some kind of green-skinned aliens under our Muslim attire.

WalLahu aklam.

 

[GuestFellow]

Are Muslims supposed to condemn every single bad thing other Muslims do? That's the impression I'm getting. If that's the case then that's just annoying.

 

[glo]

Are Muslims supposed to condemn every single bad thing other Muslims do? That's the impression I'm getting. If that's the case then that's just annoying.

I think the same thing applies in reverse:
Are non-Muslims supposed to condemn every single bad thing other non-Muslims do? If that's the case then that's just annoying.

You are right, it probably isn't possible to do that. And it is annoying. And it takes hard ongoing effort.
But it is not right to speak out against any wrong-doing, when we become aware of it?

We can only be held accountable for our own actions - but if and how we respond to the wrong-doing of others is part of our actions too. Do we ignore it? Do we judge? Do we try to do something about it?

I guess all those are things we will one day be judged on ourselves - by somebody greater and wiser than us!

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Are Muslims supposed to condemn every single bad thing other Muslims do? That's the impression I'm getting. If that's the case then that's just annoying.

No idea really. I am not a Muslim scholar so I can only give my own personal perception of what you asked.

I have heard many times that a Muslim does not expose the shameful things about his fellow Muslim (I think it's called aib) in the hope that Allah will not expose his own shameful things in akhirah. I suppose this would cover simple personal things like, maybe, a wart on the posterior.

However if it's something blatantly against the teachings of Islam and you point it out with the sincere intention that it would be of benefit to everyone concerned, then I think it's allowed. Like, for example, if you see a man who claims to be a Muslim ranting about how it is the duty of every Muslim to kill every single kafir they meet, then I would say it's more than appropriate to stand up and speak up and say in loud and clear terms that Islam does not teach such a thing. The issue is not about condemning the ranting man. It's about correcting a wrong when you see one. I am taught that correcting a wrong is mandatory upon every Muslim.

WalLahu aklam.

 

[GuestFellow]

I think the same thing applies in reverse:
Are non-Muslims supposed to condemn every single bad thing other non-Muslims do? If that's the case then that's just annoying.

No. That's just dumb.

But it is not right to speak out against any wrong-doing, when we become aware of it?

I don't care what other people think is right/wrong. I'm too busy with my own life.

We can only be held accountable for our own actions - but if and how we respond to the wrong-doing of others is part of our actions too. Do we ignore it? Do we judge? Do we try to do something about it?

If I see something bad happen I will call the police and tell them to sort it out.

All the condemning backqwas has given me a headache.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

If I see something bad happen I will call the police and tell them to sort it out.

If only it's always that simple. There are so many things which are bad which are totally out of the jurisdiction of the police. For example, if you see a girl wearing very sexy clothes and speaking suggestively to men, encouraging them to fornicate with her, how do you think calling the police will solve the problem?