~ Enough Is Enough ~

[Zman]

This isn't the first time Talib Ilm attacked me or other members, who don't share his views. But today was my first response to him.

Neither has this been the first time that I was slandered, ridiculed or maligned by a few Islamophobes.

From the first day I Joined this forum, I was met with hostility, disrespect and ridicule.

This won't be my last response to Talib Ilm or those Islamophobes who constantly attack me.

Since, the only deterrence here is to delete a post, or close a thread, that only encourgaes their attacks on me, fellow Muslims and non-Muslims, who don't share their views.

So, either muzzle them porperly or allow me and other members to defend ourselves individually and/or each other.

When one part of the Muslim Ummah hurts, the entire Ummah feels the pain and rushes to its aid.

Or are we not allowed to do that anymore, even verbally, in cyberspace?

Have Muslims changed that much?

I am forced to defend myself, since the forum doesn't provide substantial and strict defenses to those who are constantly abused by Talib Ilm and the small quantity of Islamophobes.

No disrespect to the mods or admin, but if all you have to offer is a "slap on the wrist" to Talib Ilm and the Islamophobes, then members will take matters into their own hands.

This isn't a mutiny, but enough-is-enough!

Constantly hiding behind Islamic manners and "political correctness," (eventhough Islamophobes don't even show us any manners or political correctness), Just to accomodate the meaningless feelings of a few Islamophobes at the expense of most Muslim members who are interested in gaining vital information, is unjust, illogical and I dare say, unIslamic.

This is not a mutiny nor a challenge to your authority, but if the few Islamophobes and Talib Ilm don't give a d-a-m-n about political correctness and our sensitivities, then reciprocity is in order.

You can ban me if you wish for stating the obvious, the truth and daring to speak out. If you choose that just to save a few bad apples in our midst, then that's fine, but that won't reflect positively with the other members.

That's your call, and if you want me to leave, Just say so, and I'm gone.

There have been many complaints (in private) about the hostility, disrespect and rudeness of some Islamophobes.

Some are truly not here to seek knowledge, constructive dialogue and harmony. Rather, they are here to be intentionally rude, hostile, and slanderous.

Their only objective is winding us up. Hijacking threads; Being disrespectful till a thread is closed (that's their tactic to silence us; and banishing the truth).

But I won't stay and keep taking their abuse, and I won't allow some deletions to tie my hands and deny me the right to defend myself.

Either enforce stronger rules against all, all the time, or let the members defend themselves and each other.

Some Westerners like to remind us to conform, follow their laws, show them respect and assimilate with their societies; or that they won't "appease" us; that we are their "guests," no matter if we've been here for generations.

Fair Enough.

But, the same rules should apply to them here. They are also guests; they should be respectful of the majority, they should religiously follow this forums rules, they should also assimilate better with the forums members, etc.

Or their vile actions will get reactions from us.

Have we forgotten that this is still an Islamic Forum?

Do you tolerate anyone coming into your home, and disrespecting you?

 

[wilberhum]

I get the strong feeling that some don’t understand the difference between, non acceptance of Islam, non acceptance of some Muslims views, and Islamaphobia.
The Zman is one who I have tried to minimize on a number of occasions.
Well I’m sure not here because I hate Muslims. Though a number have stated that I do. I’m definitely non accepting of Islam. So what is left? I guess that would be non acceptance of his views.
(Not to mention his massive copy/past post) (Oh, I think I have mention that a number of times)
All of this means one and only one thing, I, almost all the time, disagree with Zman. It means nothing else. :heated:
Quit crying Islamaphobia and come to the realization that not all the world agrees with you. :hiding:

Peace,
Wilber

 

[guyabano]

Well, ZMan, if you seed a wind, you're going to harvest a storm. As Wilberhum said already your posts consist nearby all of copy/paste and somehow, I seldom finish to read them as I fall asleep before.
Further I get the feeling, that even YOU don't read completely these texts you post. It is only important, that they are just anti-west !
So, before you call some people here islamophobes, better grab your own nose first as you have definetely a Phoby against the West.

Further, most of the mods do a good job. They recognize posts/posters who just join a forum to mess up with board members. That's why most of your posts get deleted.

Sure, this is an islamic forum, I agree on that. But in that case, also behave as a muslim (the one you pretend to be)

And oh, referring to theses words:

Some Westerners like to remind us to conform, follow their laws, show them respect and assimilate with their societies;

Well, if you really live in the USA, I guess, that makes part of the deal, obey to 'their' laws, no?

So far...

PS: Knowing well, this thread will be closed soon, I urge you to know, that I didn't say any bad words. You openend a thread to critisize persons, so you must also be able to accept some in return

 

[Skywalker]

Bro Zman, I can see where your're coming from but I just don't see that this forum is that bad. In fact, I think getting the non-Muslims involved in discussions is what makes it interesting! Otherwise, you'll just have everyone agreeing with you, hence no discussion will take place.

I don't know what you mean though by Talib Ilm, could you explain that more.

There are a few individuals on this forum that don't belong here, usually new members coming in from those anti-Muslim sites thinking they can come here make us all disbelieve, but they usually get banned pretty quickly. The mods here can sniff them out ;D As for the other non-Muslim members of this forum, especially the ones that have been here for a while...I think we both have mutual respect for each other. Although once in a while it's possible that we get mad and say things that are disrespectful, both Muslims and non-Muslims, I think though that most of them are not here to cause trouble and are fairly moderate when you get down to it. I may not agree always with wilberhum or guyabano or MTAFFI or Congnescenti or any of the other non-Muslim members here, but I do enjoy debating with them and have never held any ill feelings toward any of them. In fact I have a lot of respect for all those people. I hope it's the same the other way around. There are non-Muslim members here that I find myself agreeing with frequently as well like snakelegs, glo, eric h and others.

I found out about this forum by being a member on one of the anti-Muslim forums, and let me tell you that the things that go on over there are unbelievable. LI almost feels like home in a way, you have people who share your views, who you can joke around with, or people who you can discuss world issues with and get more than one perspective on. At the same time you have non-Muslims coming here to learn more about Muslims and Islam in general, so you have lots of chances to give da3wah as well. All in all, I think LI is a great community

 

[guyabano]

@Skywalker

I agree with you, most of the people, I know here, whether Muslim or Not, I would gladly share a drink or two in an ..ermm..Coffeeshop (ya know what I mean, since Muslims cannot go to a pub)
I have no bad feelings towards most here.

 

[nevesirth]

Well, ZMan, if you seed a wind, you're going to harvest a storm. As Wilberhum said already your posts consist nearby all of copy/paste and somehow, I seldom finish to read them as I fall asleep before.
Further I get the feeling, that even YOU don't read completely these texts you post. It is only important, that they are just anti-west !
So, before you call some people here islamophobes, better grab your own nose first as you have definetely a Phoby against the West.

Further, most of the mods do a good job. They recognize posts/posters who just join a forum to mess up with board members. That's why most of your posts get deleted.

Sure, this is an islamic forum, I agree on that. But in that case, also behave as a muslim (the one you pretend to be)

And oh, referring to theses words:

Well, if you really live in the USA, I guess, that makes part of the deal, obey to 'their' laws, no?

So far...

PS: Knowing well, this thread will be closed soon, I urge you to know, that I didn't say any bad words. You openend a thread to critisize persons, so you must also be able to accept some in return

i think zman made a point, we should be allowed to express ourselfs more on this forum, i realised some posts get deleted for no good reason. as long as someone is not using insulting words, he should be allowed to express his views. some other forums ive been on enjoy more liberty than here. although ill say this the best forum ive been on, ill even apprecate it more if we are granted more freedom of expression.

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[Keltoi]

On the issue of copy and pastes, It is fine if you are citing an article for discussion. However, some individuals(won't use names), fill an entire thread with pasted articles from various "alternative" websites with no follow-up and no point. It is also very telling that every article that is pasted shares a common theme, which is Westerphobia. Like I said, I don't have a problem with citing articles for discussion, but flooding a thread with pasted articles isn't a good outlet for discussion.

 

[islamirama]

We have a few good and a few bad apples in here, from Muslims and non-Muslims alike. The mods try to be as neutral as they can as they play the nice card and try not to offend either side. But at times they should put their foot down on certain threads and posters. Then again I think they lack the understanding and knowledge of the issue on hand but that still does not mean they can be mute or just close the thread rather then reprimand the individual causing the trouble.

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[guyabano]

I don't know if I will be able to express myself correctly:

In a forum, you cannot express something with emotions (emoticons can be often misunderstood or used in a sarcastic way). Thus, it is difficult to understand, what the real intentions of the post were.
Someone can be in a bad mood that day, and every post he read will be misunderstood, which finally just end up in conflicts.
If all the posters of a thread would sit around a table, seeing faces/emotions, discussions would be much more friendly instead of this daily bashing here on the forum in delicate topics.
A forum lives from the fact, that people do not agree always on topics, else it would be boring !

 

[Muhammad]

Wa Alaykum Assalaam,

It is quite apparent that there is always room for improvement - the Mods on this forum have never claimed to be perfect. We are constantly trying to find ways to improve LI and prevent common problems occurring.

If you feel that you have been "attacked" by another member, then the best thing to do is contact a Moderator by private messaging them. It is also very helpful to report specific posts that are against the forum rules, so that we can locate the site of trouble easily and take action quickly. I am sorry to hear that you have been met with hostility from day one, though I am quite sure that there has also been much welcome and support from our members.

Since, the only deterrence here is to delete a post, or close a thread, that only encourgaes their attacks on me, fellow Muslims and non-Muslims, who don't share their views.

That isn't true. Infractions are given out as deterrents also, members are contacted privately, messages are delivered publicly - we do try a number of different approaches to deal with situations.

Regarding the topic of freedom of expression - this will only be allowed so far as it does not go against our guidelines, and this means that we will not tolerate attacks against Islam or people sharing their opinions about Islam which are not based upon proper evidence and knowledge. It also means that moderators will use their discretion as to whether they see topics conducive to fruitful discussion or simply unnecessary conflict.

We try to be as fair and just as is within our capability - abuse and disrespect is most certainly not tolerated from any member. But the best way to deal with it is not by creating 'complaint threads' in this section, rather it is by contacting the moderators directly as mentioned earlier. As you have seen, this has only become a pointless one-on-one battle and hence the thread shall be closed.

Nevertheless, thankyou for bringing these issues to our attention and we will continue to work on the way we handle situations and implement our policies to bring about more effective and positive results.