Ephesians 1:3

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There was also the Psalms, or Zabur. 4 Books in all.

:shade:
 
oh yes, thank you, that was before OT, Do you think i shold convert to islam, despite my ignorance.
 
for about 3 days i cant stop thinking about Islam and god and such, i feel like my heart is on bliss and theres butterflies in my stomach, i havent been able to sleep, no matter what i do, it cant escape my mind, these thoughts infiltrate my dreams, i went to mass at a catholic church and the sermon was about paul the apostle, and christ forgiving sins, i still couldnt stop thinking about whats wrong and whats right, i just cant fathom denying jesus christ as savior.it must be easy for you since you have your entire lives, I love jesus and all he did.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
oh yes, thank you, that was before OT, Do you think i shold convert to islam, despite my ignorance.
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all should convert to Islam. what are you ignorant of?

to correct a point, the Injeel is the message that Jesus brought, NOT the New Testament. the Torah was the Message/Law the Moses brought, NOT the Torah, as it is today.

Jesus reportedly said in Mark 12:

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
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that is what Islam is about.
 
i know that Allah (SWT), has not forgotten me, because i prayed for about an hour to give me strength and repent of my sins, and i've had trouble with masturbating, and after i prayed to him, i havent done it in 2-3 days now,

i have a feeling that the quranic description of Jannah Is correct, because my mother had a Near death experience in the Mid 1980s during a surgery that went wrong, , and her description of Allah and Heaven is very similar to Jannah, she can still describe it in detail, she said allah was so beautiful she said thats the only thing she cannot describe about him.

i'm just trying to figure out where i should to become a Muslim, i dont know anybody whos muslim, at my college theres barely any clubs nonetheless muslims.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
i know that Allah (SWT), has not forgotten me, because i prayed for about an hour to give me strength and repent of my sins, and i've had trouble with masturbating, and after i prayed to him, i havent done it in 2-3 days now,

i have a feeling that the quranic description of Jannah Is correct, because my mother had a Near death experience in the Mid 1980s during a surgery that went wrong, , and her description of Allah and Heaven is very similar to Jannah, she can still describe it in detail, she said allah was so beautiful she said thats the only thing she cannot describe about him.

i'm just trying to figure out where i should to become a Muslim, i dont know anybody whos muslim, at my college theres barely any clubs nonetheless muslims.
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you can google mosques in your area. you don't "give up" Jesus, by becoming a Muslim. Jesus is one of the top 5 Prophets of Allah, along with Abraham, Noah, Moses and Muhammad.

to become Muslim, just stae the shahadah, I testify that there is only 1 God and Muhammad is His Messenger. in Arabic, La Ilaha Ilallah, Muhammadur Rasoolullah. and and Jesus is the servant and messenger of Allah, Isa wa abduhu wa Rasoolullah.

by calling Jesus, the son of Mary, his proper titles, you do him more honor than telling tales about him.

May Allah guide you and make it easy on you!
 
Oh thank you, i'm going to read the quran more and pray to Allah and before i say my first shahada.
 
also, the college i'm transferring to In Ypsilanti, MI has 5 Mosques within 5 miles of its campus, so hopefully, ill make some muslim friends and hopefully some rverts who can help me on journey. (PBUH on them all)
 
i was reading some more scripture and i want to understand Islam more,but then what does this mean if Jesus is not god

John 1:49-50 "Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." [SUP]50[/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these."

John 10:36-37: do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' [SUP]37[/SUP] "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me."

John 11:4, But when Jesus heard it, He said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it."

John 19:7 "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."

John 20:31 but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
i was reading some more scripture and i want to understand Islam more,but then what does this mean if Jesus is not god

John 1:49-50 "Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." [SUP]50[/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these."

John 10:36-37: do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' [SUP]37[/SUP] "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me."

John 11:4, But when Jesus heard it, He said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it."

John 19:7 "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."

John 20:31 but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."
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here's the problem with the gospels: they are NOT eyewitness accounts, and if you ask me, John was written by a gnostic.at least the intro.

here are the dates of each, agreed to by the majority of scholars: Mark is first, written somewhere between 65 and 75 CE; Matthew and Luke are next, 80 -85 CE; and John is dead last, 90-95 CE.

knowing this, you can see gradual changes in theology in the books. anyone looking for "proof" of godship for Jesus, jumps straight to John. why isn't there "proof" in Mark? why did it take 65 years for Jesus to "become" god? where's the "proof" in Matthew and Luke?

you are under the impression that the books are authentic. they are NOT!

watch this:

 
okay, i gotcha, i thought that was rather strange too, since my insight into Islam ive thought this bible verse said it clearly here

Jesus said to him, Matthew 4:7 "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

i see what your saying at John 20:30, it was obvious it was written after christ had risen

so jesus (PBUH) has stated before that he's Allah's son just like any of us are, such as Adam, Muhammad

he never said in full that He's the father/son/holy ghost.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
okay, i gotcha, i thought that was rather strange too, since my insight into Islam ive thought this bible verse said it clearly here

Jesus said to him, Matthew 4:7 "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

i see what your saying at John 20:30, it was obvious it was written after christ had risen

so jesus (PBUH) has stated before that he's Allah's son just like any of us are, such as Adam, Muhammad

he never said in full that He's the father/son/holy ghost.
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not in any authentic, contemporaneous statement! when i was young, i was shown some changes in the NT. it kinda blew my mind. i kept finding more, mostly the translation. but all the stuff that Ehrman talks about, are well known amongst scholars, and have been for some time.

all my books are packed, but there's a book on NT works, by Christians. and it goes to lengths to give accurate statements. i've had it for a while. by the time i got it, nothing surprised me. at least it is honest, though. gotta give them credit for that.

you see, there are changes, from Mark to Matthew and Luke, as well. which is odd, cuz experts agree that they both used Mark as one of their sources. Ehrman has done a ton of work on this subject. i have many books and college course by him. his last book is just wild! he can show the changes, even within the same book, but going over the oldest manuscripts to the newer one. its kind of fascinating.

his last Teaching Company series, When Jesus became God, is really good. eye opening if you aren't familiar with the topic, though:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-jesus-became-god.html?pfm=carousel_category_Religion&pos=1

i just finished it last week. i also enjoyed Prof Chapman's World of Biblical Israel. it follows upon the work of Richard Elliot Friedman.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/religion/the-world-of-biblical-israel.html

http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411958051&sr=1-1&keywords=who+wrote+the+bible+richard+elliott+friedman

i'm working on a project, so i just finished, for the 2nd time, Prof Koester's Apocalypse: Controversies and Meaning in Western History:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/apocalypse-controversies-and-meaning-in-western-history.html
 
thanks, i will certainly have to think about buying those, thatd be a good read.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
thanks, i will certainly have to think about buying those, thatd be a good read.
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if you want a good read. definitely get Friedman's book. as it's your first time reading it, it will blow your mind! it's kind of like a detective story. it's not that you will agree with him; you sit down to read it with a very skeptical mind. you're ready to find fault with everything he says. but once you see it, you can never unsee it. you might disagree with his final verdict, hard to, but not impossible. but the journey there is nothing but "wow", it really couldn't be anyway else. i have a bunch of his books. he takes the torah, and identifies the source of every verse. he's a professor of Hebrew. you can get a color coded Torah, colored by source. look up "documentary hypothesis".

if you want some Ehrman, get Jesus Misquoted and Jesus Interrupted. you can get all 3, usually, at any half-price book store. the paperbacks are fine.

http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411963247&sr=1-2&keywords=bart+ehrman

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411963247&sr=1-3&keywords=bart+ehrman

Forged isn't that bad, itself!

http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-God--Why-Bibles-Authors/dp/B006QS02F8/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411963247&sr=1-6&keywords=bart+ehrman

if you like the first 2, try to get Forged. THEN remember: none of this is new! the "clergy" have always known. the "clergy" make the case that the "people" are "babes" in Christ and ONLY babes in Christ! they don't want this information out there.

in my opinion, you like the Torah and the Injeel better, once you have a feel for what is correct and what isn't. because the good stuff is good! Muslims brag about the real Jesus! any Muslim you meet names Isa, is named after him! Jesus, is the ONLY Prophet, named according to his mother. and actually, you will usually hear Isa ibn Mirriam, Jesus, the son of Mary, followed by May Allah's peace and blessings be upon BOTH of them! there is even a Surah in the Qur'an, named after Mary.

if you're going to read the NT, get a Zondervan Study Bible. NIV preferably, but if you have that, it's better when you read their other translations. but the Study Bibles, even point out 3 changes in the NT. and 2 of them are kept! the end of Mark and the adulteress who was going to be stoned and Jesus' response was "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." those aren't in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts, according to Zondervan. the trinity verse, in 1 John 5:7-8 is left out because it never appeared in ANY Greek manuscript until 1400 CE! not, they found a copy, which is actually what they did claim, they literally wrote it then! it is is the latin, but not the Greek.

if you think the Latin is reliable, remember Jesus, Peace be upon him, spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. the Hebrew was mostly just for the books they read as Scripture. so, someone wrote stories about Jesus in Greek. so you've already lost and entire translation, but you are using a Latin translation of the Greek. 2 languages removed from the original. which, of course, you are reading in English! Arabic and Aramaic are similar, along with Hebrew. they retain the original stories, not the Greek translations. the Qur'an is more about Moses, when it deals with history, than any other Prophet!

you see, as a "Christian", you only have One Guy, so to speak. the only other person considered near as big is Paul! Peter is "mentioned", but the religion is the religion of Paul, not Peter. Paul claims superiority over Peter, in his own letters. not in Acts, that truth is omitted there. Christians think their religion goes back to Peter, but Paul says different. but everyone misses that! just read it in Galatians.

in Islam, all the Prophets are considered brothers. you aren't "losing" Jesus! you understand the real Jesus, that's much better than lies. plus, you get all the rest! when Al Fatihah says: "guide us to the straight path, the path of those You have blessed", it is talking about the Prophets. ALL of them. why wouldn't you ask that!?

we do not speak ill of Prophets! it is a sin. we absolutely, do not, will not, EVER say that David, the father of Solomon, was an adulterer or a murderer. it is a great evil! May Allah protect us. you see, you get the whole story. there's not much said about Jesus, but he's coming back! folks will hear the truth when he returns. but you can hear it now! no need to wait! All the Prophets came with the same Message. the stories may be different, but the Message is the same, There is Only One God, obey your parents and love/assist your neighbor. its never changed.

one interesting story in Who wrote the Bible, is about Aaron. Aaron is also a Prophet. but, and this makes sense, had Aaron created the calf idol, it would have disqualified him AND his lineage from EVER being High Priest. it is a blemish. High Priest are not allowed to have those. we say he didn't make it either! he didn't stop it, but he didn't do it.

one of the sources for the Torah, is a "Priestly" source, called P. Ezra, the final editor, and writer of a lot of the Bible, is part of the P source. the "D" source precedes Ezra, but not all of P. in fact "D" is considered the author of Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges and I&II Kings. its called the Deuteronomistic History, as a text. "D" is also involved in the 1st four books of the Torah. Jeremiah might also have something by him, because Jeremiah IS D! Jeremiah, who has Baruch ben Nariah, write. Baruch does have a style and he "interprets" Jeremiah, by making it loftier. Baruch was his scribe, that was his job. (there is a J and an E source for the Torah, but the P is the culprit for a few juicy things.)

at least we know who those authors are, though! because other than the 7 letters of Paul, we have no idea who wrote the rest of the NT! Paul is our ONLY known source.
 
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i have one last question, what does the holy spirit mean in the Islamic view of Mark 3:29

what is the context exactly?
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
i have one last question, what does the holy spirit mean in the Islamic view of Mark 3:29

what is the context exactly?
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the holy spirit is Gibreel (Gabriel). so that verse makes no sense.

the sin that Allah does not forgive, is shirk; unless you repent. shirk is any form of polytheism, associating partners with Allah.

one of my favorite hadeeth:

Allah, Blessed and Exalted, says: O son of Adam, however much you call upon Me and place your hopes in Me, I will forgive you without any reservation. O son of Adam, if you have sins piling up to the clouds and then ask My forgiveness, I will forgive you without any reservation. O son of Adam, if you come to me with enough sins to fill the earth, and meet Me without associating anything as a partner with Me, I will come to you with enough forgiveness to fill the earth. Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 3540, Grade: Sahih - See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sacred-hadith-qudsi-english-arabic/#sthash.J5AUNwgS.dpuf
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you mentioned Paradise:

Allah the Exalted said: I have prepared for My righteous servants what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and has not crossed the mind of men, but it is testified by Allah.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2824, Grade: Sahih
- See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sacred-hadith-qudsi-english-arabic/#sthash.J5AUNwgS.dpuf
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No soul knows what joy for them has been kept hidden.

Surah As-Sajda 32:17
- See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sacred-hadith-qudsi-english-arabic/#sthash.J5AUNwgS.dpuf
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when things are difficult:

A servant committed a sin and he said: O Allah, forgive my sin! Allah the Blessed and Exalted will say: My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable. Then he returned to his sin and he said: O Allah, forgive my sin! Allah will say: My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable. Then he returned to his sin and he said: O Allah, forgive my sin! Allah will say: My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable, so do what you will because I have forgiven you.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2758, Grade: Sahih
- See more at: http://www.faithinallah.org/forty-sacred-hadith-qudsi-english-arabic/#sthash.J5AUNwgS.dpuf
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the christian assertion that people could go to heaven after Jesus (PBUH) was crucified, everyone went to hell, every verse about Allah's eternal life for believers, doesnt make sense because in that sense so a very righteous man could go to Hell even if he obeyed Allah and followed his will, then he says everyone that workers of iniquity will be in Jahannam
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
the christian assertion that people could go to heaven after Jesus (PBUH) was crucified, everyone went to hell, every verse about Allah's eternal life for believers, doesnt make sense because in that sense so a very righteous man could go to Hell even if he obeyed Allah and followed his will, then he says everyone that workers of iniquity will be in Jahannam
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we are very careful about what we say about heaven. Allah is Maliki Yawmid Din, al Fatihah v 4, the "Owner of the day of Judgment". He says who gets in. not us.

but we refer to Allah as Ar Rahman Ar Raheem, Al Fatihah v 3. Allah is the Most Merciful, the Extremely Merciful. we rely on the Hope of Allah, because of His Mercy.

if i made a comment about any form of Christian belief, it would be negative, so I won't.

to me, Islam makes the most sense.
 
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