Ethics without God ? - Canada by Adam Deen

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Re: Ethics without God ? - Canada by Adam Deen

^ Right, so if it's just a matter of not knowing, does that not mean everyone's an agnostic?? :S
I've always understood it as, like, a scale of theism--agnosticism--atheism, where you couldn't come under both agnostic and atheist, but I see that's not technically right...

More on topic...I realize this is gonna be totally vague, but of course non-muslims have a sense of morality (though, okay, the definition of 'morals' varies from person to person)...and they obviously see these morals as worth upholding, even if their rewards are limited to this life, or whatever...that seems, to me, to be enough...
 
Re: Ethics without God ? - Canada by Adam Deen

~Raynn~ said:
Right, so if it's just a matter of not knowing, does that not mean everyone's an agnostic?? :S
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Ah, but there's the rub. See, I am 100% sure that Allah exists. :)
 
Re: Ethics without God ? - Canada by Adam Deen

Osman said:
Ah, but there's the rub. See, I am 100% sure that Allah exists. :)
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Lol, okay, you have complete faith He exists...still, no one can really knowww...?? I guess the line between knowing and believing isn't really as clear as you'd expect, lol...
 
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Thirty thousand children die needlessly every day from grinding poverty and preventable disease. About a billion people go to bed hungry every day, they live on less than a dollar a day.

This is morally and ethically wrong when there is enough food in the world to feed every one.

We glorify people like Bill Gates who are good for our economy and give work to thousands of people. He has earned billions by charging us far too much for his products, simply because he can. He might give away a few hundred million to good causes; but some of that money he is giving away came from me paying him far too much for my computer.

Morality and ethics are grounded in justice for the poor and oppressed, the marginalised, the widow and orphan.

Religions do spell this out but we do tend to overlook this.

Fear of God is the start of wisdom, if we feared God we would put the needs of the poor and oppressed first. At some point we all have to stand before God.

In the spirit of praying for justice for the poor.

Eric
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,

I'm staggered that VizierX seems to think I've managed to spend nearly four years on this board without ever having discovered the difference between atheism and agnosticism. I don't know whether to be insulted or just amazed.
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In my experience most atheists are either ignorant of the logical distinction or purposely equivocate.


Agnosticism takes no position on the question of whether god exists, so no, that's not agnosticism.
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Its a lack of belief unlike atheism.


Which is equivalent to saying "non-belief in the existence of god". You might recognise those words from earlier.
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That's sophistry. It is not equivalent at all. There is a world of difference between the two. Atheists take the stance that God does not exist, its a positive statement about the state of reality. The atheist position has a burden of proof attached to it.

Can you provide any evidence for the non-existence of anything?

Peace
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Its not my problem, atheists shouldn't make such grandiose claims to begin with.
 
"Greetings and peace be with you all,

Thirty thousand children die needlessly every day from grinding poverty and preventable disease. About a billion people go to bed hungry every day, they live on less than a dollar a day.

This is morally and ethically wrong when there is enough food in the world to feed every one.

We glorify people like Bill Gates who are good for our economy and give work to thousands of people. He has earned billions by charging us far too much for his products, simply because he can. He might give away a few hundred million to good causes; but some of that money he is giving away came from me paying him far too much for my computer.

Morality and ethics are grounded in justice for the poor and oppressed, the marginalised, the widow and orphan.

Religions do spell this out but we do tend to overlook this.

Fear of God is the start of wisdom, if we feared God we would put the needs of the poor and oppressed first. At some point we all have to stand before God.

In the spirit of praying for justice for the poor.

Eric "

Strikingly put. And incredibly true.

We all have morals; or a moral compass. We all have feelings about the difference between right and wrong from a very young age. Whether this is due to our surroundings or innate is a different question....and if the answer is both, to what extent is also questionable...but, yes, everyone has a moral compass.
 
burdenofbeing said:
if you are familiar with the concept of evolution, you should find the answer easily.
people masses that do good to each other has a higher survival rate. it's been repeated numerously in this thread as well.

speaking of logic, why would people make children? it's nothing but trouble. and it has very little personal benefit. wouldn't it be more logical if we didn't make children? sure, it would make sure our genes don't transfer but... still.

and I don't understand where this debate is going. if the question is having ethics or being altruistic without god, only the example of bill gates should be enough.
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You miss the point. There is no question that atheists can behave morally. But how can they logically justify? Why should an atheist be good and how would an atheist go about determining what is good without an objective, transcendental standard? You can't invoke evolution because any such justification would be fallacious (its known as the naturalistic fallacy).
 
I think murder is bad. I feel this deep down in my "heart". I think Life should be cheerished. I was raised in a society that thinks this way.
 
VizierX said:
You miss the point. There is no question that atheists can behave morally. But how can they logically justify? Why should an atheist be good and how would an atheist go about determining what is good without an objective, transcendental standard? You can't invoke evolution because any such justification would be fallacious (its known as the naturalistic fallacy).
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Explain please.
 
ATHEISTofPEACE said:
Explain please.
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He's asking the same thing I asked you before, to which you couldn't give a response to.

Why bother being good? You said it benefits your group or w/e. I say, so what? I can choose to me opportunistic and greedy whenever I want. I dont have to give a ****.

So c'mon why should a transient blob of atoms like me burden exert himself in behavior which may not benefit me? Without God, I sure as hell will steal that kid's wallet when I know he isn't looking.
 
Thats messed up cause I did not go and steal his wallet.

Sorry to hear you need your beilife in God to be a moral person. Thats kinda sad.

So why should I behave? hmm Well if every one said $%#^ it I'll do what I want then bad things will happen to me and those I love. So I will behave in hopes others behave. The Golden Rule and society helps us function this way. There are many who beilive in God and do bad.
 
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ATHEISTofPEACE said:
Sorry to hear you need your beilife in God to be a moral person.
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Perhaps that means you now have a free licence to do what you like?!

Honestly, my husband is an atheist. I have known him for 23 years, and although he may not be perfect in every way (I'm working on that! :D), he is one of the most thoughtful, considerate and morally/ethically aware people I know!

This idea that only believers have morals is simply untrue ...
 
ATHEISTofPEACE said:
Thats messed up cause I did not go and steal his wallet.

Sorry to hear you need your beilife in God to be a moral person. Thats kinda sad.

So why should I behave? hmm Well if every one said $%#^ it I'll do what I want then bad things will happen to me and those I love. So I will behave in hopes others behave. The Golden Rule and society helps us function this way. There are many who beilive in God and do bad.
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Let's not get into extreme hypothetical situations with everyone not caring. I'm talking about everyday life. Hmm, so you follow morals just so you and your family don't get hurt. Well, if you had to murder a person to get food for your starving family would you? If don't kill for food, your family starves to death.

According to the logic you gave me, I think you would kill them, seeing as how "bad things would happen to you and those you love" if you didn't.

And also, "I am sorry that you would follow such a ridiculously burdensome bunch of rules that you call morality. While you are content following a bunch of man-made rules which don't matter in the long run, I'll be using the money in that wallet to buy a flat screen TV. I'm a bad person? Boo hoo. Both of us are dust, I'm just gonna have more fun before I die."

By the way, I don't understand the bolded part. I never said YOU stole his wallet, I said if I didn't believe in God, I would have.
 
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burdenofbeing said:
Regarding that, some will tell you that "yeah, but because they are not good believers!"

Psyche is a wondrous thing.
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Name me one religion that required a murderous, aggressive, miserly attitude to be a good believer.

Lets get real here, religion isn't an on and off switch, you have to FOLLOW the rules.

I could declare myself an atheist and kill someone tomorrow, would you blame atheism? I don't think atheism requires murder right?
 
AntiKarateKid said:
Let's not get into extreme hypothetical situations with everyone not caring. I'm talking about everyday life. Hmm, so you follow morals just so you and your family don't get hurt. Well, if you had to murder a person to get food for your starving family would you? If don't kill for food, your family starves to death.

According to the logic you gave me, I think you would kill them, seeing as how "bad things would happen to you and those you love" if you didn't.


By the way, I don't understand the bolded part. I never said YOU stole his wallet, I said if I didn't believe in God, I would have.
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Who would I have to kill to feed my family? I am not aure if I could but I do not look down upon one who would.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
Mind answering the rest of my post? I'm still have not received a proper answer.
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Which part have I ignored? I have given you a few reason for us to have morals and I have commented on how horrible it is that you need God not to be a mean pearson. Really I mean I could say how saddened I am to hear that you would treat your fellow man like gabage if you were not so fearful of your god.
 

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