Europe hostile to muslim world?

[Skavau]

Europe is at the current time scared, distrustful and slightly confused of devoted Muslims. There are many reasons for this, some which are not to do with Islam at all - but a projection of history.

 

[Supreme]

Europe is at the current time scared, distrustful and slightly confused of devoted Muslims. There are many reasons for this, some which are not to do with Islam at all - but a projection of history.

It's fear- fear is the worst enemy of any country because it eventually leads to hatred.

 

[★мαячαн★]

I'm born an bred here in the UK and think personally that we are not particularly treated in a negative manner or aimed at. Ofcourse there are misconceptions but i think that we all have too work with the people we live with, and help them understand we ent gonna blow them up or the next man on the street. These confusions seem to be due to the way in which some communities seem to live ina parallel world only, not intermixing adn tehrefore cauing amnimosity between people i guess. but on the whole i think that they aren't particularly making ti a bad place for Muslims. I lead a very good life here and i'm not sure i would recieve all the freedom even in a Muslim country. If you live in a country you respect there laws and beliefs and if you stongly disagree then you should feel free to leave i guess, wherever in the world you are.. If someone enters a Muslim county and disobeys the laws then we have severe repuricusions (which is another topic) but therefore we should respect views of other nations and try to live in harmony (cheesy line )

 

[KAding]

We in Asia are actually more open toward difference despite of many accusations being casted to us by western imperial power. myself for example, I had been living in Buddhists surrondings without any problem and we're from Hadhrami Arab ancestries. I also have Orthodox Jew friends from Bnei Tmeinan (Yemeni Jews) and Ashkhenazim and we contacting each other although our country have no diplomatic treaties among each other. we try to find points of similarity among us without losing respect on each other.

That may be true. But the simple fact is that a whole lot more restrictions are put on religious freedom in Malaysia than in European countries. In many states Non-Muslims can't preach their religion to Muslims and apostasy is illegal. From what I read it is also often difficult to built churches or temples for non-Muslims. Restrictions like these simply do not exist in any European countries, not even the feared secular French state.

Also keep in mind that Islam is a new religion in Europe, while Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism have been part of Malaysian society for centuries. All societies need time to adjust to the new realities of a multi-religious make-up.

 

[Amadeus85]

Europe is hostile to muslim world, because many many Europeans lost their faith in God and many many european christians replaced submission to the Creator for religion of human rights. I often hang out with traditional catholics and among them there is no hatred to islam or other religions. I am also a traditionalist and I respect Islam and I see its good points.

 

[Skavau]

Europe is hostile to muslim world, because many many Europeans lost their faith in God and many many european christians replaced submission to the Creator for religion of human rights. I often hang out with traditional catholics and among them there is no hatred to islam or other religions. I am also a traditionalist and I respect Islam and I see its good points.

The irony of course being (In Europe) is that most anti-immigration, anti-Islamic political parties, pressures groups and such tend to claim that their motives are Christian and their interests being to maintain that 'Christian' heritage.

Many non-religious liberals, socialists often speak out for Islam (the most famous of course being George Galloway).

In the USA, of course the contempt comes from evangelical and fundamentalist Christians based on fear of Islamic terrorism (and just about everything) trumped up by Faux News, their pastors, and their televangelists.

 

[north_malaysian]

I live in India and don't know much about European Union and muslims living there, but it makes me think 'Is EU acting hostilely towards muslim world?' as some news like banning of hijab in France and banning of Minarets in Switzerland and the popular slogans in EU 'Stop Islamification of Europe!' surface the internet.
Anyone, brothers or sisters from Europe tell me (I know many people here are from Europe) the situation of the muslims in EU.
Thank you.

Switzerland is not an EU member...

 

[north_malaysian]

How about this: In Malaysia (A Muslim country), all male students are not allowed to keep beards in public schools... (if any of you Malaysians knew of any public schools allowing this.. please tell me..)

 

[Amadeus85]

The irony of course being (In Europe) is that most anti-immigration, anti-Islamic political parties, pressures groups and such tend to claim that their motives are Christian and their interests being to maintain that 'Christian' heritage.

Many non-religious liberals, socialists often speak out for Islam (the most famous of course being George Galloway).

In the USA, of course the contempt comes from evangelical and fundamentalist Christians based on fear of Islamic terrorism (and just about everything) trumped up by Faux News, their pastors, and their televangelists.

The irony is that those christians (like for example Geert Wilders) want to defend christian values like for example tolerance to same sex marriages, feminism or secular state . This is their christian heritage :skeleton:

These are christians who, like I said before, replaced God with the idol of human rights.

Christian should struggle for social reign of Christ The King.

 

[Amadeus85]

There is also one important fact - racism and its reasons. Racism is the child of modernity and secularism. Racism was born in Europe and USA as the sign of fear to "aliens" when the religious life was fading - in XIX century. Nowadays racism is strongest in countries with largest numbers of atheists - England, USA, Sweden, Holland. Racism is a reaction of middle class in secular societies against foreigners. Because religious societies are theocratic and the "foreigners issues" are dealed in different way.

 

[Supreme]

There is also one important fact - racism and its reasons. Racism is the child of modernity and secularism. Racism was born in Europe and USA as the sign of fear to "aliens" when the religious life was fading - in XIX century. Nowadays racism is strongest in countries with largest numbers of atheists - England, USA, Sweden, Holland. Racism is a reaction of middle class in secular societies against foreigners. Because religious societies are theocratic and the "foreigners issues" are dealed in different way.

Racism has always existed, you can't possibly hope to blame secularism for it. If anything, secularism has helped extinguish racism to some extent, as people from minority faiths are not treated as second class citizens by the state.

 

[Skavau]

The irony is that those christians (like for example Geert Wilders) want to defend christian values like for example tolerance to same sex marriages, feminism or secular state . This is their christian heritage :skeleton:

Geert Wilder isn't a Christian. He's an atheist who considers himself allied culturally with Christians.

His reasons, whether you accept them or not for opposing Islam are based in humanitarian concerns, not religious.

Christian should struggle for social reign of Christ The King.

How fascist of you.

 

[Skavau]

There is also one important fact - racism and its reasons. Racism is the child of modernity and secularism. Racism was born in Europe and USA as the sign of fear to "aliens" when the religious life was fading - in XIX century. Nowadays racism is strongest in countries with largest numbers of atheists - England, USA, Sweden, Holland. Racism is a reaction of middle class in secular societies against foreigners. Because religious societies are theocratic and the "foreigners issues" are dealed in different way.

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever read in a long time.

I challenge you to back a single claim in this paragraph up. None of it is sources, all just speculation mixed with a bigoted rant against Secular Democracy. Indeed I find it quite redundant that you even claim this since you champion a time where things such as slavery, torture, religious war, fascism, totalitarianism, despotism existed. You champion a time where the Inquisition had effect, where the average life expectancy was under 40 years old, where diseases were considered punishments, curses or both. Where the masses languished in poverty, illiteracy, ignorance and under the control of others.

 

[Amadeus85]

Geert Wilder isn't a Christian. He's an atheist who considers himself allied culturally with Christians.

His reasons, whether you accept them or not for opposing Islam are based in humanitarian concerns, not religious.


How fascist of you.

Fascism, mix of socialism and nationalism(child of french revolution) is definitely modern doctrine, just like communism and national socialism.
So I have nothing to do with fascism .

 

[Amadeus85]

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever read in a long time.

It was worth to write it then .

I challenge you to back a single claim in this paragraph up. None of it is sources, all just speculation mixed with a bigoted rant against Secular Democracy. Indeed I find it quite redundant that you even claim this since you champion a time where things such as slavery, torture, religious war, fascism, totalitarianism, despotism existed. You champion a time where the Inquisition had effect, where the average life expectancy was under 40 years old, where diseases were considered punishments, curses or both. Where the masses languished in poverty, illiteracy, ignorance and under the control of others.

Technology, industry,is one thing and spirituality,morality is other thing. I call Medival best period in Europe's history. One continent under spiritual power of pope, and political power of catholic emperor. Bare in mind that Medival DID NOT invent things like concentration camps, Gulag, communism, national socialism, Holocaust, total war, genocides. Have You ever thought why Holocaust and artrocities of Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot DID HAPPEN after Enlightment and french revolution? From Robespierre and Napoleon was a straight path to Stalin and Hitler.

 

[Skavau]

Fascism, mix of socialism and nationalism(child of french revolution) is definitely modern doctrine, just like communism and national socialism.
So I have nothing to do with fascism .

You wish to impose an authoritarian system of control over people whether they want it or not. You wish to create a society of clerical fascism. It is a modern concept, but it is not what you do not want.

Technology, industry,is one thing and spirituality,morality is other thing. I call Medival best period in Europe's history. One continent under spiritual power of pope, and political power of catholic emperor. Bare in mind that Medival DID NOT invent things like concentration camps, Gulag, communism, national socialism, Holocaust, total war, genocides. Have You ever thought why Holocaust and artrocities of Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot DID HAPPEN after Enlightment and french revolution? From Robespierre and Napoleon was a straight path to Stalin and Hitler.

I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims.

You call the medieval period the best period? Why? Because clerical fascists were in control? Never mind the rampant superstition, slavery, bigotry, disease, famine, warfare and general unpleasantness for the average person in that period - it was run and maintained by catholics.

Also, can you please tell me the specific period (Yes, I *do* want dates here) that you think was fantastic and under the "spiritual power of pope".

 

[Amadeus85]

You wish to impose an authoritarian system of control over people whether they want it or not. You wish to create a society of clerical fascism. It is a modern concept, but it is not what you do not want.

Does a mother asks her child about decision? Doesnt mother forbids the child to touch fire or electricity? Should a child not listen to her mother? Here we have mother with 2 thousand years of experience.
Please don't tell me about "clerical fashism", You could also use sentence "the fight of class", this is old communistic sentence used by the red terrorists killing priest in eastern and central Europe.

You call the medieval period the best period? Why? Because clerical fascists were in control? Never mind the rampant superstition, slavery, bigotry, disease, famine, warfare and general unpleasantness for the average person in that period - it was run and maintained by catholics.

As I said, technology, materialistic life and spirituality are two different things. How can You know that Medieval couldn't exist till today and experience technological improvement. Bare in mind that last two true catholic, "Medieval" states did exist in half of XX century, Spain and Portugal.

Also, can you please tell me the specific period (Yes, I *do* want dates here) that you think was fantastic and under the "spiritual power of pope".

It's not easy to say, it depends on which european country we are talking about. For example Spain and Portugal managed to remain catholic (theocratic, because secular means atheistic) till half of XX century. Austria and Hungary till 1919, Colombia till 60's in XX century. And for example the revolution destroyed the catholic order in France in end of XVIII century, in England, Germany, Holland and Scandinavia reformation destroyed it in XVI century. The end of catholic order is always the acceptance of secular(atheistic) state. For me, Medieval means state ruled by God's law, reign of Christ who has two swords - Church and state. Secular means atheistic, reigns of unbelievers, sects, and the horned creature from undergdround.

 

[Skavau]

Does a mother asks her child about decision? Doesnt mother forbids the child to touch fire or electricity? Should a child not listen to her mother? Here we have mother with 2 thousand years of experience.
Please don't tell me about "clerical fashism", You could also use sentence "the fight of class", this is old communistic sentence used by the red terrorists killing priest in eastern and central Europe.

What a ridiculous analogy.

Just because a society works and persists does not mean that it is desirable. There were times in the Third Reich where everything was effectively stable. The trains ran on time and the average German life was solid. It does not mean however, that it was an ideal state.

As I said, technology, materialistic life and spirituality are two different things. How can You know that Medieval couldn't exist till today and experience technological improvement. Bare in mind that last two true catholic, "Medieval" states did exist in half of XX century, Spain and Portugal.

Because then it would not be medieval. It would be a modern state. This is horrendous really. Just because you want 'spirituality' at the expense of others. Just because you want the warm feeling bought on by clerical control over the fruitfulness of scientific "materialistic" advancement that you rely on every day: clean water, safe food, modern hygiene, modern medicine, modern transport, electricity, mass global communication (internet, mobile phones, television).

There can be no words to describe how you're not only biting the hand that feeds you, you're actively ravaging it from the core.

It's not easy to say, it depends on which european country we are talking about. For example Spain and Portugal managed to remain catholic (theocratic, because secular means atheistic)

So you can't even tell me what you mean by your 'ideal' period. No dates, only referencing Spain and Portugal Catholicism. Concerning Spain however - click here. Is that the period you're talking about?

Also Secularism is not atheistic. Secularism means that the political system cannot legislate on behalf of, or for religious interest groups promoting their own religious ideals onto society. A Secular state is effectively neutral on religious belief.

Austria and Hungary till 1919, Colombia till 60's in XX century. And for example the revolution destroyed the catholic order in France in end of XVIII century, in England, Germany, Holland and Scandinavia reformation destroyed it in XVI century. The end of catholic order is always the acceptance of secular(atheistic) state. For me, Medieval means state ruled by God's law, reign of Christ who has two swords - Church and state. Secular means atheistic, reigns of unbelievers, sects, and the horned creature from undergdround.

I can only describe the last sentence here as paranoid concepts born from absolutely nothing.

 

[Supreme]

Exactly. The UK is a secular state, China is an atheist state. Secular states do not persecute people on their beliefs, whereas China demonstrates that atheistic states discriminate and persecute theists.

 

[Amadeus85]

The Medieval was the time when people were closest so far to get know the Creator's plan of history, God's plan towards the human beings and the world. The man should get know the Creator's plan for the world, the man should not destroy divine order and law. God's law is put in natural law. Natural law is being created in tradition, in hundreds, thousands of years. Natural laws are - family, marriage(between man and woman), private posession, justice, religion (theocracy).

Medieval is state of mind, so it has no time borders. As I said, in middle of XX century, till death of gen. Francisco Franco Bahamonde, Spain was ruled by Medieval spirit. Till the death of Antonio Salazar in the middle of XX century, Portugal was fullfilled with Medieval spirit. Austria and Hungary till 1919 were Medieval states, catholic monarchies.

Secular state is the final victory of heretics, sects, atheists and unbelievers over the cosmic and divine catholic order. Catholic state means the reign of Christ, reign of truth, secular state means reign of people' desires, reign of mistakes. Secular state is the victory of the evil spirit, which now shows the effects - legalization of abortion, pornography, homo- relationships, euthanasia, the agreement of sects propaganda. The evil spirit is smiling. People are destroying themselves with smiles on faces and Lady Gaga's music in background.

Nowadays there is no even one catholic, Medieval state. But it doesnt mean that this idea is dead. Medieval spirituality lives in minds and souls of single people all over Europe and rest of World. It is idea that only the Creator can be the source of law and morality, not the failing and weak human's mind which erupted in communistic and nazi artrocities all over world. Now we dont carry swords and armors, but this Medieval state of mind and heart, allows us to improve ourselves, fight with our weaknesses, and live according to commandments and the teachings of one Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church