Evidence that the Bible is Truth.

[dougmusr]

What do you mean? Is that a general question, or one directed specifically to mansaf?

If it was a general question, in Islam a person is only saved by the Mercy of Allah and by their good deeds with a done for the sake of Allah alone (obviously, the good deeds must be done by a Muslim).

It was directed at mansaf in response to his statement, "I am not challenging you and I am not interested in your findings. Allah almighty is challenging you so that you are sure about your salvation." I'm under the impression, and your post would seem to agree, that Muslims feel only Allah knows who will enter paradise, and that prior to judgement, a Muslim can only do good and hope. If this is the case, how could he expect me to be sure about my salvation if he can not be sure about his own.

 

[mansaf]

It was directed at mansaf in response to his statement, "I am not challenging you and I am not interested in your findings. Allah almighty is challenging you so that you are sure about your salvation." I'm under the impression, and your post would seem to agree, that Muslims feel only Allah knows who will enter paradise, and that prior to judgement, a Muslim can only do good and hope. If this is the case, how could he expect me to be sure about my salvation if he can not be sure about his own.

I am sure about my salvation. I have witnessed Allah's miracle in the Quran. The challenge has stood for the last 1400 years. Nonbelievers always criticize the challenge but never dare to accept it.

 

[IzakHalevas]

I am sure about my salvation. I have witnessed Allah's miracle in the Quran. The challenge has stood for the last 1400 years. Nonbelievers always criticize the challenge but never dare to accept it.

Accept the challenge? The challenge makes no sense in practical terms and is utterly worthless. The challenge will never be completed because no one cares to do so. We really could care less.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Maybe not you, but people try too and have done in the past. Why is it worthless? Its worthless when someone doesn't want too take it. And like u said u could care less, thats why it seems worthless to you.


Hmmm...it almost sounds confusing

 

[islamway]

Before i say some thing about bible i would like to remind you some verses of bible
Introduction: We must first of all know that the entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption! "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it (i.e., the bible) into a LIE. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!
See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.
Authorship of bible:-"Although there is no direct internal evidence of authorship, it was the unanimous testimony of the early church that this Gospel was written by John Mark. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1488)"
So, in reality, we don't really know whether Mark was the sole author of this Gospel or not. And since The New Testament wasn't even documented on paper until 150-300 years (depending on what Christian you talk to) after Jesus, then how are we to know for sure that the current "Gospel of Mark" wasn't written by some pro of Mark?
: "The most reliable early manuscript and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20."
Now my concern to this corruption and 'answer-the-problem-away' statement is that what are those so-called "reliable early manuscript(s)" and who are the "ancient witnesses"?
According to the early Christians' manuscripts, Jesus never got crucified, and trinity is a lie. The so-called "gospel of Mark", along with all of the "gospels" of the NT, were written by third-party narration, as clearly demonstrated and . People wrote on the tongue of Jesus' Disciples those books. They are neither original nor are the Pure Word of GOD Almighty.
If the "gospel of Mark" was indeed Divine and from GOD Almighty, then we wouldn't have this corruption, that they're admitting above, in it.

I hope you see the real danger in making these assumptions when you are willing to DIE for the fact that such Gospel is the actual True Word of GOD Almighty!
Further regarding this Gospel, we read the following commentary about Mark 16:9-20:
"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"

This quote raises a very serious issue here. First of all, as we've seen above in the first quote, we have no evidence that proves that John Mark was the sole author of this so called "Gospel". Second of all, we see that this Gospel has some serious problems/suspicions in it. The issue of Mark 16:9-20 is a scary one, because many Christian cults today use poisonous snakes in their worship and end up dying.
Removing Mark 16:9-20 is quite appreciated by me personally (to be quite honest with you), because it prevents people from dying from snake bites. But however, the serious issue of man's corruption of the Bible remains.
We can be absolutely certain now that the above quotes prove without a doubt that the Bible is doubtful. The quote "or its original ending has been lost" proves that what we call today "Gospels" were not written by their original authors such as Mark, John, Matthew, etc... It proves that the Gospel had been tampered with by man. Let alone considering it as the True Living Words of GOD Almighty.
If John Mark wasn't the one who wrote Mark 16:9-20, then who did? And how can you prove the ownership of the other person? Let alone proving that it was GOD Almighty's Revelation. And as we saw in the first quote above, we don't even know that John Mark was indeed the one who wrote the so called "Gospel of Mark".
To say the least in our case here, we now have enough evidence to discard the entire Gospel of Mark from the Bible, because you can't take bits and pieces of it and say some of it belongs to him and some of it doesn't! Let alone considering the entire corrupted Gospel as the True Living Word of GOD Almighty, which is a complete blasphemy.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

Accept the challenge? The challenge makes no sense in practical terms and is utterly worthless. The challenge will never be completed because no one cares to do so. We really could care less.

First of all, you've stated that you don't even know Arabic properly so the challenge isn't even really directed to you (there are others, however).

Second of all, you seem pretty confident (if not arrogant) considering that you speak in the name of all non-Muslims. Especially since it isn't true. There are people that have tried to take on the challenge. And since one of the things the Arabs were most pride of was their poetry and eloquence, the challenge is practical. They knew that they couldn't come up with something like the Qur'an, so they chose to fight against the Muslims instead. I hope that you can desist from spreading misinformation, at least from now on.

 

[IzakHalevas]

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

This verse has nothing to do with corruption of the Law.

The verse says:

How do you say, "We are wise, and the Law of the L-rd is with us"? Verily, behold it is in vain, he made a false scribes' pen. Wise men were ashamed, they were broken and caught; behold they rejected the word of the L-rd, now what wisdom have they?
(Jeremiah 8:8-9)
​

One who looks at the immediate content of these verses see that G-d poses a question about why the false scribes claim to be wise. Then in verse 9 it answers that question by saying "behold they rejected the word of the L-rd, now what wisdom have they?" There is no mention of a "corrupted" Tanakh. If the Tanakh was corrupted in verse 8, why is G-d calling it his word in verse 9? This is what you fail to address.

This should be read:

"Say to them, 'This is what the L-RD says: If you do not listen to me and follow MY LAW, which I have set before you, and if you do not listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I have sent to you again and again (though you have not listened) then I will make this house like Shiloh and this city an object of cursing among all the nations of the earth.'"
(Jeremiah 26:4-6)
​

How could Israel follow the law (Torah), if it had been corrupted? This presupposes that the Torah was uncorrupt and available during the time of Jeremiah. Furthermore, since Jeremiah wrote Jeremiah 8:8 he would know best the meaning of the passage in question. Clearly, we see Jeremiah appealing to the availability of the Law in Jeremiah 26:4-6 implying that the scribes did not corrupt the Torah, but simply did not follow it. Example: Is it hypocrisy to write a Torah the word of G-d and then not follow it? Of course!

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!

No we do not. All we see is your deceitful attempt to try and take the Tanakh out of context.

See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.

The Muslim writer claims that "The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Torah) will get corrupted." The biblical reference that is given is Deuteronomy 31:25-29. However, the biblical reference does not give the slightest hint to support the Muslim's claim. Moses wrote, "Take this Book of the Law and place it besides the ark of the covenant of the L-RD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you." Moses predicted that the Book of the Law would remain and be a witness against the people of Israel. So, the reference proves the exact opposite of what the Muslim claims. The reference proves that the scripture would remain and be a reliable witness against the people of Israel! If the Book of the Law were not to remain or were to become totally corrupted, it could not be an abiding witness against the nation of Israel.

"he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the L-RD: "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the L-RD your G-d. There it will remain as a witness against you. For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the L-RD while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die! Assemble before me all the elders of your tribes and all your officials, so that I can speak these words in their hearing and call heaven and earth to testify against them. For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the L-RD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made."
(Deuteronomy 31:25-29) (NIV)
​

Secondly, Moses stated, "For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you." Notice, Moses does not claim that Book of Moses will become utterly corrupted. Moses wrote that the people of Israel would become corrupted, not the scriptures. So again, the scriptural references given by the Muslim author contradicts directly his assertion. He claims that the scriptures would be corrupted, but his reference states that the people would become corrupted.

The people of Israel carefully safe-guarded the commandments of the L-RD. And, after the temple of Sulaiman (Solomon) was built, Moses' two stone tablets were still in existence. They were in the ark of the covenant that was the innermost court of the temple called, the Holy of Holies. So, to have the original stone tablets of the Law in the temple, the people of Israel had to have guarded the original stone text for hundreds of years.

There was nothing in the ark except the two stone tablets that Moses had placed in it at Horeb, where the L-RD made a covenant with the Israelites after they came out of Egypt.
(1 King 8:9) (NIV)
​

The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

No it did not. Your claims have been refuted.

As for the arguments, against the "new testament" or "gospel" they were never true in my belief, so who cares who wrote them!

 

[IzakHalevas]

Second of all, you seem pretty confident (if not arrogant) considering that you speak in the name of all non-Muslims.

The Quran is false to non-Muslims so therefore, why should a non-Muslim care what it says? Who on earth would waste their time.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

The Quran is false to non-Muslims so therefore, why should a non-Muslim care what it says? Who on earth would waste their time.

Are you really that naive? Of course there are people that try to disprove the Qur'an. From the Pagans at the time of the Prophet (sall Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) who even tortured the Muslims, to the missionaries of today. There has always been people that try to turn Muslims away from their religion. I have myself seen people that have tried to take on this challenge.

By the way, the challenge didn't come out of nowhere. It was directed at the Arab Pagans who tried to disprove the Qur'an on a regular basis (and it still stands today).

 

[Skillganon]

The Quran is false to non-Muslims so therefore, why should a non-Muslim care what it says? Who on earth would waste their time.

We heard that before. The Jew's who reject the prophets and the ones that came with revelation are false to God of Abraham.

 

[IzakHalevas]

We heard that before. The Jew's who reject the prophets and the ones that came with revelation are false to God of Abraham.

What are you even saying? I do not understand your point.

Are you really that naive? Of course there are people that try to disprove the Qur'an. From the Pagans at the time of the Prophet (sall Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) who even tortured the Muslims, to the missionaries of today. There has always been people that try to turn Muslims away from their religion. I have myself seen people that have tried to take on this challenge.

Naive? Why wate my time disporving a false scripture when I can be studying the word of G-d, the Torah. The challenge basically says that no other book will ever gain as many followers etc. Well who cares? Since Jews do not even believe christianity or islam to be valid, why would it matter how mnay followers there are? Why would it matter how masterful the text is written? The amount of followers a book has is completly irrelevant. The evidence of this is the gospel which has never been the word of G-d, ever, which has 2 billion people believing it is.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

Naive? Why wate my time disporving a false scripture when I can be studying the word of G-d, the Torah. The challenge basically says that no other book will ever gain as many followers etc. Well who cares? Since Jews do not even believe christianity or islam to be valid, why would it matter how mnay followers there are? Why would it matter how masterful the text is written? The amount of followers a book has is completly irrelevant. The evidence of this is the gospel which has never been the word of G-d, ever, which has 2 billion people believing it is.

I've never heard of such a challenge. Actually, the Qur'an even says that most of humankind doesn't believe. So I really don't know where you got that from.
By the way, even if you personally would rather study Torah than talk about the Qur'an (even though you are doing it right now) that doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with you and I don't think you should be acting as if they are (which you did in your first post).

 

[Zulkiflim]

This is best I have seen so far:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=63255

The translations are fairly accurate regarding the culturaul differences of the languages.

Salaam,

Thank for the link already bookmarked,but now may i ask you to post a direct link to the vrse and for you to read the contents of that chapter pre and post and then verify it is AUTHENTIC.

Again,i had the smae problem as before,so THANKS.if you do it..ya..

 

[arabiyyah]

why not just refute it, he gave ya the link.

 

[Malaikah]

Accept the challenge? The challenge makes no sense in practical terms and is utterly worthless. The challenge will never be completed because no one cares to do so. We really could care less.

Well that's a rather arrogant thing to say isn't... funny, all those Arab poets who tried to produce the like of the Quran and failed during the Prophets time... did they also not complete the challenge because they didn't care?

So if they didn't care, why did they spend hours upon hours in isolation trying to meet the challenge, only to give up? hmmm...

 

[Umar001]

That concept has no support in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), and there is an argument between Rabbi's on if it is idolatry or not.

Thank you for supporting my position.