Evolution and Islam

[MicroSalma]

Salaam! So I've not long joined and I'm already bringing the tone down! Sorry! Hehe

So we're all familiar to some extent with the evolution versus creationism debate which has recently picked up some momentum in America (amongst the evangelicals, anyway). The problem is, I've yet to hear a reconciliation of evolution with the Qur'an!

Many Christian denominations, including Catholicism and Anglicanism, have taken such a liberal (and some would say 'loose') interpretation of their scripture that they now accept evolution. So clearly it can be united with faith (although I feel they have cheated a bit).

My question however, is how we unite evolution with Islam. From what I've read, it seems quite bleak, as virtually all scholars (and, naturally, critics) seem to consider them incompatible. Even Dr Zakir Naik, someone whose opinion I've longed respected, responded to the problem with 'evolution is only a theory'!

Indeed, the Qur'an gives quite an elaborate account (2:30-39) of how Allah created Adam (and then Eve) in Heaven, and then sent them to the Earth for having sinned, and that we humans all descend from the single soul of Adam (4:1), etc.

But this of course is a very different story to what really happened! I'm wondering whether these verses are to be taken allegorically? Indeed, 3:6 tells us that some verses should be taken allegorically...

So what are your thoughts? I've heard some Muslims claim that they are compatible...

I anticipate that some (hopefully few) of you will respond that evolution is rubbish, but as someone who has studied biology for the past decade and now works in the field of evolutionary biology, that would be like telling me the world is flat, so please don't bother.

Looking forward to your replies!

Salma.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.
P.P.S. Sorry to any moderators if this is in the wrong topic area!

 

[omar ibrahim]

that would be like telling me the world is flat<<I disagree with you %100

there is a big different between the theory of evolution and the earth

it seems logical for any person

 

[MicroSalma]

that would be like telling me the world is flat<<I disagree with you %100

there is a big different between the theory of evolution and the earth

it seems logical for any person

The evidence in support of evolution is as overwhelming as that for a round Earth, and I'm willing to discuss/debate evolution further in another thread, but I'd prefer this thread be reserved for those who take evolution as a premise.

Thank you.

 

[Chuck]

The evidence in support of evolution is as overwhelming as that for a round Earth

Actually, no. Scope of shape of earth is very small and it is directly observable. On the other hand, evolution is very big subject with many sub-theories, some are directly observable, others not, and others have no evidence.

 

[Ramadhan]

Indeed, the Qur'an gives quite an elaborate account (2:30-39) of how Allah created Adam (and then Eve) in Heaven, and then sent them to the Earth for having sinned, and that we humans all descend from the single soul of Adam (4:1), etc.

Hence it is already clear that Adam and Hawa pbut were already created in the human form.

But this of course is a very different story to what really happened!

What really happened?

I'm wondering whether these verses are to be taken allegorically? Indeed, 3:6 tells us that some verses should be taken allegorically...
So what are your thoughts? I've heard some Muslims claim that they are compatible...

Allahu alam.
Everything will be made clear to us during the judgement day.

I anticipate that some (hopefully few) of you will respond that evolution is rubbish, but as someone who has studied biology for the past decade and now works in the field of evolutionary biology, that would be like telling me the world is flat, so please don't bother.

As you started this thread and you are an evolutionary biologist, please tell us what you think about this issue, because you have not really stated your opinion.

if you think the creation of Adam is compatible with current theory of evolution, how could it be so?
In my limited general understanding of evolution, if we are to accept that both were compatible, than it means you have to acknowledge that Adam was no more than a single-celled prokaryote who started to live on earth 3.5 billions years ago.

And if you think that the creation of Adam is different than the rest of living things on earth, that means you reject the evolution theory.

so what's your position?

 

[Ramadhan]

The evidence in support of evolution is as overwhelming as that for a round Earth, and I'm willing to discuss/debate evolution further in another thread, but I'd prefer this thread be reserved for those who take evolution as a premise.

Thank you.

I am afraid you are heavily biased because it is your profession.

You can go to the International Space Station and directly observe from there that the earth is a sphere.

Or did I miss the latest news?
Did anyone go into a time machine and traveled through approx. 3.5 billions years to record the journey from single-celled prokaryote to modern man?

 

[MicroSalma]

Chuck, as I say, I'm willing to debate evolution further in another thread.

What really happened?

All life on Earth evolved, from a common ancestor. Again, I'm willing to discuss evolution further in another thread.

As you started this thread and you are an evolutionary biologist, please tell us what you think about this issue, because you have not really stated your opinion

Well, of course, I accept evolution as a fact. As for my opinion regarding how this fits in with Islam: I simply don't know, which is why I'm asking.

I know that the Christians (who have an almost identical genesis account) take Adam and Eve to be allegorical (Wikipedia has an article on 'Allegorical interpretations of Genesis' if you'd like to find out more about that). So I'm looking for a parallel way in Islam, but as you point out, I can't find much room for one!

 

[MicroSalma]

I am afraid you are heavily biased because it is your profession.

That's not true in the slightest; if I had any grounds to doubt evolution, I never would have spend so many years (and so much money) obtaining an education in it.

You can go to the International Space Station and directly observe from there that the earth is a sphere.

Such flawed arguments are so depressing.

You cannot directly observe the Romans, nor have we taken a time machine back in time to see them, but you don't consider their existence as a mere hypothesis do you? They have left huge amounts of evidence behind; historical documents, the aqueducts, the spread of Latin and Christianity, etc.

Likewise, evolution has left a lot behind, that to deny it is like denying the Romans.

(Besides, evolution as a process can (and has been) observed numerous times; Lenski's experiments with E.coli is just one of many such examples.)

 

[Ramadhan]

You cannot directly observe the Romans, nor have we taken a time machine back in time to see them, but you don't consider their existence as a mere hypothesis do you? They have left huge amounts of evidence behind; historical documents, the aqueducts, the spread of Latin and Christianity, etc.

Again, your analogy are not equal.
I believe the romans existed because the left not only direct records of themselves, but also indirect records/evidence.
I even believe dinosaurs existed because there are fossils of them.
But where is the records of evolution from prokaryotes to human? And I don't mean the fossils, because the fossils are only evidence that such creatures existed, not that they changed from bacteria, to jellyfish, to fish, rats, to apes, to humans.

Likewise, evolution has left a lot behind, that to deny it is like denying the Romans.

I did not know that accepting the romans means accepting common descent theory. This is new.

In my limited understanding, the Qur'an does not detail about the creation of living things on earth, but it clearly tells the story about the creation of Adam. There is also story about Adam's children and the first murder. And there are also hadists about Adam and his family.

To deny that Adam is a special creation is like denying the Qur'an, which means denying Allah.

(Besides, evolution as a process can (and has been) observed numerous times; Lenski's experiments with E.coli is just one of many such examples.)

I never argued that evolution mechanisms and processes have not never been observed. You can directly observe mutations, adaptation, even speciation. But to extrapolate that to humans descending from prokaryote is not logical if not scientific.

 

[omar ibrahim]

ok ok i see.However, sister if you believe that we came from monkeys

and believe that the story of Adam was no more than fiction then you are

not muslim anymore :statisfie because its very important in faith to believe

in Allah and his angels and his books ...etc

by the way i will remind you that all the creation of Allah some of them might be similar and this is ok in islam

والذين آمنوا بالباطل وكفروا بالله أولئك هم الخاسرون } [ العنكبوت :52]

and those who are believing in falsehood and disbelieve in Allah those are the losers

sister we are not enemy if we disagree with you because we are fearing Allah.

In addition Allah has supported his book with scientific facts so there will

be no excuse in the day of judgment for people who are living especially

nowdays :statisfie

 

[Gator]

MicroSalma,
In the comparative religion section there is a thread called "Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective" in the sticky section on top.

Its closed, but you may want to browse that. That might give you some ideas about positions and arguments.

Here's a link: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/6570-biological-evolution-islamic-perspective.html


Thanks.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Salaam! So I've not long joined and I'm already bringing the tone down! Sorry! Hehe

So we're all familiar to some extent with the evolution versus creationism debate which has recently picked up some momentum in America (amongst the evangelicals, anyway). The problem is, I've yet to hear a reconciliation of evolution with the Qur'an!

Many Christian denominations, including Catholicism and Anglicanism, have taken such a liberal (and some would say 'loose') interpretation of their scripture that they now accept evolution. So clearly it can be united with faith (although I feel they have cheated a bit).

My question however, is how we unite evolution with Islam. From what I've read, it seems quite bleak, as virtually all scholars (and, naturally, critics) seem to consider them incompatible. Even Dr Zakir Naik, someone whose opinion I've longed respected, responded to the problem with 'evolution is only a theory'!

Indeed, the Qur'an gives quite an elaborate account (2:30-39) of how Allah created Adam (and then Eve) in Heaven, and then sent them to the Earth for having sinned, and that we humans all descend from the single soul of Adam (4:1), etc.

But this of course is a very different story to what really happened! I'm wondering whether these verses are to be taken allegorically? Indeed, 3:6 tells us that some verses should be taken allegorically...

So what are your thoughts? I've heard some Muslims claim that they are compatible...

I anticipate that some (hopefully few) of you will respond that evolution is rubbish, but as someone who has studied biology for the past decade and now works in the field of evolutionary biology, that would be like telling me the world is flat, so please don't bother.

Looking forward to your replies!

Salma.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.
P.P.S. Sorry to any moderators if this is in the wrong topic area!

Hi, thou are truly the enlightened one through your scientific pursuits! Can you remove us out of darkness by telling us "what really happened?"

 

[Chuck]

Chuck, as I say, I'm willing to debate evolution further in another thread.

Read this: http://www.islamicboard.com/health-science/134275841-what-origin-man-dr-maurice-bucaille.html

But it is not a debate and text is pro-evolution from Islamic perspective. I've similar opinion. Quoted book is available online, check the link in the last post.

 

[MicroSalma]

... sister if you believe that we came from monkeys and believe that the story of Adam was no more than fiction then you are not muslim anymore

If I had to choose between Islam and evolution, it would be evolution. Not because I don't have faith, but because I value facts over faith (and I hope you all do too).

No amount of faith could convince you that the Earth is flat, could it? Well it's like that for me.

Nevertheless, I'm not yet convinced that they're incompatible.

In the comparative religion section there is a thread called "Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective" in the sticky section on top.

Thank you, I read the original post in that thread (but lost interest in the comments that followed once they started flaming each other and making ludicrous claims). It's certainly on the right topic, but it doesn't seem correct to me: it appears to claim that all other life may (or may not) have evolved, but humans definitely did not. Despite what the article claims, this is in contradiction with modern science...

Can you remove us out of darkness by telling us "what really happened?

I already have: we evolved. Want to know more? Read a book on it - thousands have been written over the past 150 years, so take your pick.

Read this: http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...-bucaille.html

But it is not a debate and text is pro-evolution from Islamic perspective. I've similar opinion. Quoted book is available online, check the link in the last post.

Thank you. I read Chapter 4, and although I like the references to 'stages', they seem very vague (and in context, most are clearly referring to embryonic development). More importantly though, it doesn't appear to resolve the problem of Adam and Eve...

 

[CosmicPathos]

If I had to choose between Islam and evolution, it would be evolution. Not because I don't have faith, but because I value facts over faith (and I hope you all do too).

No amount of faith could convince you that the Earth is flat, could it? Well it's like that for me.

Nevertheless, I'm not yet convinced that they're incompatible.



Thank you, I read the original post in that thread (but lost interest in the comments that followed once they started flaming each other and making ludicrous claims). It's certainly on the right topic, but it doesn't seem correct to me: it appears to claim that all other life may (or may not) have evolved, but humans definitely did not. Despite what the article claims, this is in contradiction with modern science...



I already have: we evolved. Want to know more? Read a book on it - thousands have been written over the past 150 years, so take your pick.



Thank you. I read Chapter 4, and although I like the references to 'stages', they seem very vague (and in context, most are clearly referring to embryonic development). More importantly though, it doesn't appear to resolve the problem of Adam and Eve...

Thats a logically fallacious argument. Ive read millions yet I did not find a rational answer. You are arguing from authority while I hold that authority in gutter.

 

[Ramadhan]

I see that you have made your position very clear in this.

so what do you think Adam a.s. was?

 

[MicroSalma]

Thats a logically fallacious argument. Ive read millions yet I did not find a rational answer. You are arguing from authority while I hold that authority in gutter.

I did not claim evolution was right because scientists say so. You merely asked the origin of man, and I referred you to books.

If you are indeed educated on the subject, but still do not believe it, then that's another matter. I'd be happy to discuss details with you if you create a new thread on the subject. Please stop hijacking this one.

so what do you think Adam a.s. was?

I really don't know - I was hoping for an allegory, but given that we don't believe in original sin, that makes things a bit difficult...

 

[CosmicPathos]

I did not claim evolution was right because scientists say so. You merely asked the origin of man, and I referred you to books.

If you are indeed educated on the subject, but still do not believe it, then that's another matter. I'd be happy to discuss details with you if you create a new thread on the subject. Please stop hijacking this one.



I really don't know - I was hoping for an allegory, but given that we don't believe in original sin, that makes things a bit difficult...

Why do you think I am hijacking it, I am still discussing evolution and Islam.

What does hijacking mean? How could I possible hijack this thread when every other member has the freedom to write here whatever they want. Hijacking means that you take control over everything and restrict movement of everyone else. You need to be much learned in philosophy yet.

You told me to "read millions of books on it." There are thousands of books written on existence of aliens and santa clause's existence. I am rather asking you to clarify to us what evidence shows that humans have evolved. If you cannot defend your position in the first place, I doubt anyone would give any value to what you believe in.

 

[MicroSalma]

Why do you think I am hijacking it, I am still discussing evolution and Islam.

What does hijacking mean? How could I possible hijack this thread when every other member has the freedom to write here whatever they want. Hijacking means that you take control over everything and restrict movement of everyone else. You need to be much learned in philosophy yet.

Hijacking, in the context of forums, means
"when a thread is taken from one direction of discussion to another completely off course topic or many different topics in a short period of time."

The topic of this thread is how to unite evolution with Islam, taking evolution as a premise. That is fundamentally different to asking whether evolution is true.

I've asked at least five times for us to discuss the former topic. Hence, you are hijacking my thread.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Hijacking, in the context of forums, means
"when a thread is taken from one direction of discussion to another completely off course topic or many different topics in a short period of time."

The topic of this thread is how to unite evolution with Islam, taking evolution as a premise. That is fundamentally different to asking whether evolution is true.

I've asked at least five times for us to discuss the former topic. Hence, you are hijacking my thread.

its not your thread. Its not your forum. Get rid of that ego before reconciling evolution with Islam.

If you want to get the verdict, evolution of man from primitive animals is not Islamic at all and goes against the interpretation of Islam as done by Prophet Muhammad.

That definition of hijacking is completely wrong. that is not what hijacking means. Even if it was true, I have not veered off in any other topic. before reconciling evolution with Islam on Islamic forum, you have to first convince majority of members on this forum that whether evolution is true or not.