Evolution and Islam

[Ramadhan]

This isn't an original question, and it's frustrating that these same questions are asked over and over again even after they've been answered. I'm not dodging the question though, as it's a decent one:

The question may have been asked before, but has it been resolved and answered satisfactorily? I think not.

First of all, there are not 'billions' of species, more like millions.

The estimates for the number of existing species wildly range from 3 - 100 millions, 1.6 millions of which have been named/discovered.
So surely there must have been billions of species that ever existed on earth in the past 3.5 billions of years.

how many features can you really list that are completely unique to humans?
Physically, we are 'holomorphic' to countless other animals; and even many of our mental characteristics are not unique - other animals exhibit emotions (such as attachment, sorrow, and loneliness) plus altruism. Many animals cry out when suffering. Language is not unique to us. And many animals are amazing at problem solving (chimpanzees and even birds have outsmarted humans in solving certain problems!)
However, I of course don't deny that (despite the adorable, painting elephants), humans are the only ones with an appreciation for art, and we have the most complex language.

You can claim that animals posses similar mental characteristics as humans. But the facts do not support your claim.
animals may "cry out" when hurt, but humans are the only creatures that "cry" tears of emotion.
there are examples of animals displaying some intelligence, but are they anywhere near humans? why is that the intelligence levels of dolphins and chimnps are similar with each other, although aside from being mammals, they are nowhere similar? Why is chimps level of intelligence not closer to humans?
Language is not unique to us? Animals may have some sort of sound codes to communicate extremely simple and limited ideas with each other, but true language? I think not.
I don't know why you can't admit that human mental capacities are truly unique.

But the most amazing characteristic of humans is our ability to reason and rationalise. So the question is: how is it that we can rationalise but others cannot? The answer is of course that our brain (in particular the cerebral cortex) has swelled up - it's massive. You might say 'ah! Well that's unique!' but no, not really. All mammals have a cerebral cortex, ours is just the largest.

so how did human brain suddenly increase it size twice in such short period of time? why didn't chimps and gorillas?
And then why, after suddenly became so big, modern human brain size just stopped growing?
why couldn't sharks which have been around for hundreds of millions of years could not grow their brain size by one bit?
Why is human the only creature that have highly developed mental capacities?

you then asked why we're so much smarter than other animals, why aren't there others as intelligent as us? Well that's like asking why is there no animal that can travel faster than the Peregrine Falcon?

ONE animal has to be the fastest, just like one animal has to be the smartest. That animal is us. But then you might ask why our brains are so much bigger than others. But again, it's not that bizzare. The Peregrine Falcon can fly at about 200 mph, whereas the second fastest animal (the spine-tailed swift) can fly at only 100mph. If you were a Peregrine Falcon, you'd be arguing 'god must have created ME because I'm not only a bit faster than you, but TWICE as fast!'

I am starting to doubt your sincerity when claiming you regard FACTS as your number one priority. Certainly in this case, you are very loose and lax with facts. The Peregrine Falcon is only fastest when in hunting dive mode, that is, when diving down vertically aiming for a prey. Peregrine falcon is not even among the top ten fastest birds in natural flight.
Saying peregrine falcon is the fastest bird would be like saying humans can run faster than horses because usain bolt can run 9.5 seconds in 100 m.

I am also surprised you, again, make analogy which are not equal. Are you really saying that difference in mental capacity between man and chimps is as meaningless as the difference between the flight speeds of birds?

Also, if you are saying that human brain is not really remarkable, then why the brains of chimps and gorillas are so similar with each other but both are so different than human? After all, according to theory of evolution, humans are in the apes family right?

human brain is not even twice the same of a chimpanzees!!

I am SHOCKED!!!

Are you sure you are an evolutionary biologist?

The average size of human brain is around 1,400, while chimps' is around 400 cc. If I do my math right, that is around 3 times larger!

Not to mention that human brain has a structure which is a lot more complex and so different than chimps, gorilla or orang utan, whose brains are similar with each other.


Here's something else to ponder (maybe it's also unoriginal for you):

why do people have complete faith in evolution of prokaryote --> human when there is no direct evidence, and yet have absolutely no faith in God the Creator when logic tells that God must certainly exist and the evidence and signs are so overwhelming and everywhere.

 

[tango92]

heres a question, humans can choose paths that are directly against their instinct. ie perfectly normal people can choose to kill their own kids, im not saying its likely actually its quite hard to imagine. but animals cannot even fathom making desicions that run counter to their biology.

how can such an evolutionary mechanism account for this?

 

[CosmicPathos]

The question may have been asked before, but has it been resolved and answered satisfactorily? I think not.



The estimates for the number of existing species wildly range from 3 - 100 millions, 1.6 millions of which have been named/discovered.
So surely there must have been billions of species that ever existed on earth in the past 3.5 billions of years.



You can claim that animals posses similar mental characteristics as humans. But the facts do not support your claim.
animals may "cry out" when hurt, but humans are the only creatures that "cry" tears of emotion.
there are examples of animals displaying some intelligence, but are they anywhere near humans? why is that the intelligence levels of dolphins and chimnps are similar with each other, although aside from being mammals, they are nowhere similar? Why is chimps level of intelligence not closer to humans?
Language is not unique to us? Animals may have some sort of sound codes to communicate extremely simple and limited ideas with each other, but true language? I think not.
I don't know why you can't admit that human mental capacities are truly unique.



so how did human brain suddenly increase it size twice in such short period of time? why didn't chimps and gorillas?
And then why, after suddenly became so big, modern human brain size just stopped growing?
why couldn't sharks which have been around for hundreds of millions of years could not grow their brain size by one bit?
Why is human the only creature that have highly developed mental capacities?





I am starting to doubt your sincerity when claiming you regard FACTS as your number one priority. Certainly in this case, you are very loose and lax with facts. The Peregrine Falcon is only fastest when in hunting dive mode, that is, when diving down vertically aiming for a prey. Peregrine falcon is not even among the top ten fastest birds in natural flight.
Saying peregrine falcon is the fastest bird would be like saying humans can run faster than horses because usain bolt can run 9.5 seconds in 100 m.

I am also surprised you, again, make analogy which are not equal. Are you really saying that difference in mental capacity between man and chimps is as meaningless as the difference between the flight speeds of birds?

Also, if you are saying that human brain is not really remarkable, then why the brains of chimps and gorillas are so similar with each other but both are so different than human? After all, according to theory of evolution, humans are in the apes family right?



I am SHOCKED!!!

Are you sure you are an evolutionary biologist?

The average size of human brain is around 1,400, while chimps' is around 400 cc. If I do my math right, that is around 3 times larger!

Not to mention that human brain has a structure which is a lot more complex and so different than chimps, gorilla or orang utan, whose brains are similar with each other.


Here's something else to ponder (maybe it's also unoriginal for you):

why do people have complete faith in evolution of prokaryote --> human when there is no direct evidence, and yet have absolutely no faith in God the Creator when logic tells that God must certainly exist and the evidence and signs are so overwhelming and everywhere.

you nailed this so-called evolutionary biologist who is just another nil student! Kudos.

She thinks she is an evolutionary biologist after taking one semester credit at some no-name liberal arts undergrad school. Or perhaps at a community college.

 

[Trumble]

so how did human brain suddenly increase it size twice in such short period of time? why didn't chimps and gorillas?
And then why, after suddenly became so big, modern human brain size just stopped growing?
why couldn't sharks which have been around for hundreds of millions of years could not grow their brain size by one bit?
Why is human the only creature that have highly developed mental capacities?

The reason is pretty much the same in all those cases, the changes perpetuate only when there is distinct survival benefit from them doing so. Sharks didn't 'grow their brains' because there was no benefit to being 'smart' as long as there was no severe food shortage that brought them into direct competition with each other - and even then sensory enhancements would probably have proved far more useful.

The brain size thing is pretty much irrelevant, it generally increases with the size of the animal rather than 'highly developed mental capacities' (both whales and elephants have far bigger brains than humans). It is different and enhanced brain structures that are important, and there is no reason at all that different species in the same 'family' should not develop to varying degrees and in varying ways. The whole classification system is merely a convenient labelling device, anyway. At some point in the future (assuming we don't destroy the planet first) our descendants will no longer be 'apes' and, in all probability, neither will those of chimpanzees. Apes, human or otherwise, will be as extinct as dodos and dinosaurs.

 

[CosmicPathos]

The reason is pretty much the same in all those cases, the changes perpetuate only when there is distinct survival benefit from them doing so. Sharks didn't 'grow their brains' because there was no benefit to being 'smart' as long as there was no severe food shortage that brought them into direct competition with each other - and even then sensory enhancements would probably have proved far more useful.

The brain size thing is pretty much irrelevant, it generally increases with the size of the animal rather than 'highly developed mental capacities' (both whales and elephants have far bigger brains than humans). It is different and enhanced brain structures that are important, and there is no reason at all that different species in the same 'family' should not develop to varying degrees and in varying ways. The whole classification system is merely a convenient labelling device, anyway. At some point in the future (assuming we don't destroy the planet first) our descendants will no longer be 'apes' and, in all probability, neither will those of chimpanzees. Apes, human or otherwise, will be as extinct as dodos and dinosaurs.

Probably "probably" never occurred. See, a manifesto of probabilities. There is no evidence for what you claim is the reason for sharks not growing their brains. Speculation ad nauseam.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you mad_scientist;

you nailed this so-called evolutionary biologist who is just another nil student! Kudos.

She thinks she is an evolutionary biologist after taking one semester credit at some no-name liberal arts undergrad school. Or perhaps at a community college

However much we might disagree with someones views, there is still the need for kindness.


In the spirit of praying for those who are different to ourselves.

Eric

 

[tango92]

The reason is pretty much the same in all those cases, the changes perpetuate only when there is distinct survival benefit from them doing so. Sharks didn't 'grow their brains' because there was no benefit to being 'smart' as long as there was no severe food shortage that brought them into direct competition with each other - and even then sensory enhancements would probably have proved far more useful.

The brain size thing is pretty much irrelevant, it generally increases with the size of the animal rather than 'highly developed mental capacities' (both whales and elephants have far bigger brains than humans). It is different and enhanced brain structures that are important, and there is no reason at all that different species in the same 'family' should not develop to varying degrees and in varying ways. The whole classification system is merely a convenient labelling device, anyway. At some point in the future (assuming we don't destroy the planet first) our descendants will no longer be 'apes' and, in all probability, neither will those of chimpanzees. Apes, human or otherwise, will be as extinct as dodos and dinosaurs.

but see bacteria are the most sucessful organisms on earth, suviving anywhere, theres no need to even evolve past that stage.

and if we descended from apes why were their apes living in countries like africa alongside humans? surely these apes would have needed to evolve for survival aswell?

 

[Chuck]

you nailed this so-called evolutionary biologist who is just another nil student! Kudos.

Another nil student bites the dust. ;D just kidding.

 

[tetsujin]

but see bacteria are the most sucessful organisms on earth, suviving anywhere, theres no need to even evolve past that stage.

and if we descended from apes why were their apes living in countries like africa alongside humans? surely these apes would have needed to evolve for survival aswell?

Evolution is not a linear process, and it is not a process driven by individual organisms. I can't evolve because I feel the need to evolve.

The easiest way to grasp it is to think about your own extended family. Generally, brothers and sisters look similar to their parents but there are small differences. These differences are passed down to their children. So cousins may look similar to their own brothers and sisters but may look very different from their other cousins.

Evolution simply states that genetic differences accumulate over time, and those differences eventually lead to a split in the species.

All the best,


Faysal

 

[CosmicPathos]

Evolution is not a linear process, and it is not a process driven by individual organisms. I can't evolve because I feel the need to evolve.

The easiest way to grasp it is to think about your own extended family. Generally, brothers and sisters look similar to their parents but there are small differences. These differences are passed down to their children. So cousins may look similar to their own brothers and sisters but may look very different from their other cousins.

Evolution simply states that genetic differences accumulate over time, and those differences eventually lead to a split in the species.

All the best,


Faysal

and that is exactly when evolution becomes a dogma.

 

[tetsujin]

and that is exactly when evolution becomes a dogma.

Are you saying we have not found any evidence for speciation?

All the best,


Faysal

 

[CosmicPathos]

Are you saying we have not found any evidence for speciation?

All the best,


Faysal

We have not found any evidence that accumulation of genetic changes eventually leads to successful speciation. Just like how we do not have a working definition of life, we do not have a working definition of "species" even if scientists think otherwise for spreading the dogmatic belief.

 

[Ramadhan]

Evolution simply states that genetic differences accumulate over time, and those differences eventually lead to a split in the species.

Many species have not changed one bit for hundreds of millions of years.

Meanwhile, humans suddenly experienced an explosive increase in brain size and structure within very short time. And then the increase suddenly stopped.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Many species have not changed one bit for hundreds of millions of years.

Meanwhile, humans suddenly experienced an explosive increase in brain size and structure within very short time. And then the increase suddenly stopped.

and then throw in the differential in brain size depending on human gender.

 

[tetsujin]

We have not found any evidence that accumulation of genetic changes eventually leads to successful speciation. Just like how we do not have a working definition of life, we do not have a working definition of "species" even if scientists think otherwise for spreading the dogmatic belief.

The fact that there are several different ways to delimit species, depending on the species, means that we will have several definitions of speciation and species.

All the best,


Faysal

 

[CosmicPathos]

The fact that there are several different ways to delimit species, depending on the species, means that we will have several definitions of speciation and species.

All the best,


Faysal

we all scientists have several definitions of life too but all agree that none is completely accurate. Just like how water was defined as "liquid, transparent, dissolving and thirst quenching substance" by scientists before it was found that its made up 2 H atoms and 1 O atom, such is the nature of our definition of life today.

 

[Argamemnon]

Why do atheist evolutionists claim that they do not adhere to any dogma when they obviously do? Why do they rudely interrupt this young brain surgeon from Turkey while asking some critical questions in this Vatican conference?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9L5VLZYk7s(see 3:16)?

They remove the microphone while he is asking questions. These kind of reactions prove that some of these people blindly and fiercely adhere to atheist dogmas. They give science a bad name.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Why do atheist evolutionists claim that they do not adhere to any dogma when they obviously do? Why do they rudely interrupt this young brain surgeon from Turkey while asking some critical questions in this Vatican conference?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9L5VLZYk7s(see 3:16)?

They remove the microphone while he is asking questions. These kind of reactions prove that some of these people blindly and fiercely adhere to atheist dogmas. They give science a bad name.

I dont understand what the discussion was about. Whats going on in that video? Do you understand Turkish?

 

[Chuck]

I guess he brought something from Harun Yahya.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I guess he brought something from Harun Yahya.

is he a brain surgeon? If he is then why would he bring something from Harun Yahya?