Evolution -why its not accepted

[observer]

We are on an Islamicboard talking about Islam, if you wish to insult Islam go somewhere else and it will be written on your record for the Day of Judgement, a day you wish you did not stand with the wrongdoers. So what you decide to do with your time in this test is up to.

I think you've missed my point - I think it's pretty clear that people insulting each others' beliefs is pointless and does nothing to help anyone get on. I mean that if you say that it's ok to insult some beliefs, can you complain then if someone insults your belief?

There are very few places that are populated with people who all believe the same thing. The world is only going to get more diverse. With this in mind, I think that mutual respect is the only option for society to be harmonious.

 

[h-n]

I think you've missed my point - I think it's pretty clear that people insulting each others' beliefs is pointless and does nothing to help anyone get on. I mean that if you say that it's ok to insult some beliefs, can you complain then if someone insults your belief?

There are very few places that are populated with people who all believe the same thing. The world is only going to get more diverse. With this in mind, I think that mutual respect is the only option for society to be harmonious.

Harmonious?? What with homosexuals?? I think not!

It is strange that you talk of this, when actually religious people have already proven to live side by side with those they don't agree with, I myself included, but that doesn't mean of course we don't show dissapproval for the wrongdoers actions, but going as far as saying harmonious-no (as that would go as far as saying that we accept people doing things that God is against). There is only one religion in this world created by God, sent down to all the Prophets ie Prophet Adam, Noah, Moses, Lut, Solomon and David peace be upon them. So of course we are never going to agree with those who go against Islam. That doesn't again mean that we haven't been living side by side, if this is not good enough for you then what is?? Regardless of media portrayals Christians and Muslims have been living side by side for so long ie in Pakistan were they openly decorate their churches, many Jews have refused to leave Iran in reply to the Israel's government. Your trying to make it look like we haven't been, well we have and so have I living side by side peacefully.

 

[Ahmad H]

Evolution as you stated is a changing of organism -believing that humans evolved over time-were they say that we came from apes,

This is why you need to read up on evolution. As a Muslim, I am appalled to think that we were descended from apes. The theory says there is a "common ancestor" with the ape family, we are NOT descended from apes. There is a big difference here. I want you to read carefully what I just wrote and ask you to see the difference.

 

[h-n]

This is why you need to read up on evolution. As a Muslim, I am appalled to think that we were descended from apes. The theory says there is a "common ancestor" with the ape family, we are NOT descended from apes. There is a big difference here. I want you to read carefully what I just wrote and ask you to see the difference.

??? How on earth is saying that we share a common ancestor make it any better?? When your actually implying that we are related to apes, which would also mean that we are descended. (ANCESTORS-implies we are DESCENDANTS!!)

This is what happens when you go into evil things and all is the same, but your trying to differentiate between them when it is all evil, and were Allah sends the wrongdoers to Hell together. It is no different in the wrongdoers trying to say that having a glass of wine is better then have a pint of beer-trying to say which one is better when it is all evil.

 

[Ahmad H]

As far as insulting others' beliefs goes, we are not allowed to do that. Shirk is the unforgivable sin with everything else beneath it in regards to the intensity of its evil. Yet, we are not allowed to insult the gods of other people:

6:108 And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fair-seeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.

So I don't see how there could be any insults to the beliefs of others. I agree with you h-n that we can live side by side peacefully with disbelievers, yet we do not have to agree with their beliefs.

But let's go back to the discussion on evolution please. Can any other Muslims here give some sources of information on evolution for others to read online that are concise but explanatory? Whether as a Muslim we accept evolution or not, we should learn about these things because we don't know which information will lead us to ultimately recognizing Allah better. Personally, I do not see any problems with accepting that Allah created us through a process of evolution, because this is in the Hukm of Allah. It is not Hukm to accept something which is contrary to observation and enforce that interpretation on Allah's Words.

Classical Tafsirs explain things differently. In our age, we can recognize these things by observation and identify what it is that Allah was talking about. There are future prophecies mentioned in the Qur'an, which the Sahaba of Rasul-e-Karim (saw) did not fully understand. We see some of those things happening now. Such as the return of the Children of Israel to their land, but after that, we Muslims will inherit that land. We have not seen that yet, so we do not fully understand that.

Conclusion: Learn about nature, and Allah's miracles of creation will open up and we can appreciate His Words better. This is my stand. I hope others can agree to this.

 

[Ahmad H]

??? How on earth is saying that we share a common ancestor make it any better?? When your actually implying that we are related to apes, which would also mean that we are descended. (ANCESTORS-implies we are DESCENDANTS!!)

This is what happens when you go into evil things and all is the same, but your trying to differentiate between them when it is all evil, and were Allah sends the wrongdoers to Hell together. It is no different in the wrongdoers trying to say that having a glass of wine is better then have a pint of beer-trying to say which one is better when it is all evil.

How dare you imply that I am saying evil is good. You know h-n, I am trying to be nice here. But you seem to push people's buttons quite easily. You sound no different than a hardliner extremist who can't accept any knowledge. If you are anti-education, then so be it. But don't preach ignorance here.

A common ancestor means that we always remained human, but there are few genetic differences between us and other ape species. This does NOT imply we are apes in any way. We were always human, and remain so. We share many genetic traits with all other species too. Have you looked at the similarities in how humans grow as embryos and other animals? Our stages resemble many other creatures' stages also. Allah created everything from water, thus every living thing started out in the oceans. Obviously there will be similarities.

Go study a book and stop acting foolish. Add something to the argument instead of accusing me of being evil for thinking. I believe in the Qur'an, so stop accusing me of going into evil things. Knowledge is not evil unless your intention is evil. My intention is to understand the Words of Allah. It seems you can't appreciate the miraculous nature of Allah's Words. It's not my fault Allah hasn't given you this intention towards understanding His Word better.

 

[h-n]

When quoting from the Quran it is best to read it first-if you can't understand that one simple thing, then what do you understand, when have you seen Muslims reading up on the hindu idols and making stories and insults and jokes about Ganeesh, Krishna etc??? Why should we read and make up stories about idols?? AS of course they would be thinking about doing it with God, but again no Muslim would wish to read up on the abhorrent claims.

As Muslims WE OPPOSE IDOL WORSHIP IT IS ABHORRENT, AND WE TELL OTHERS THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS DISGUSTING. We oppose evil and enjoin what is good. We're not going to simply say ooh its just something that we don't accept as if someone is offering you a cup of tea.

Read on the basics of Islam, before jumping up and down telling people to accept evolution when the scientists don't understand it themselves, nor do they understand how this world was created, as God didn't give you the knowledge of how many people were sleeping in the cave beside the dog, what makes you think he has given you the rest of the details of how this universe was created?? Listen to how far wrong you are, saying to recognising Allah better??? Miracles of creation will open up to you, when you have not any communication with the next world, your acting as wrongdoers, when its not about being religious, but about arrogance and looking and desiring things that have NOTHING to do with you, not everything that Allah has created has to be known by humans. Its rather like scientists which look towards how the universe is related to humans, rather then Muslims accepting that this is a relationship between Allah and his creation, we weren't witnesses to Allah creating the angels, and the heavens. You are far astray with what you say, telling Muslims to accept in evolution when not even the scientists all agree, telling the Muslims that you think the clusters have something to do with the heavens were you have no knowledge only conjecture. IDLE CHIT CHAT.

Wait then on the Day of Judgement, were no one will be saying that apes are our ancestors, that we evolved.

 

[h-n]

How dare you imply that I am saying evil is good. You know h-n, I am trying to be nice here. But you seem to push people's buttons quite easily. You sound no different than a hardliner extremist who can't accept any knowledge. If you are anti-education, then so be it. But don't preach ignorance here.

A common ancestor means that we always remained human, but there are few genetic differences between us and other ape species. This does NOT imply we are apes in any way. We were always human, and remain so. We share many genetic traits with all other species too. Have you looked at the similarities in how humans grow as embryos and other animals? Our stages resemble many other creatures' stages also. Allah created everything from water, thus every living thing started out in the oceans. Obviously there will be similarities.

Go study a book and stop acting foolish. Add something to the argument instead of accusing me of being evil for thinking. I believe in the Qur'an, so stop accusing me of going into evil things. Knowledge is not evil unless your intention is evil. My intention is to understand the Words of Allah. It seems you can't appreciate the miraculous nature of Allah's Words. It's not my fault Allah hasn't given you this intention towards understanding His Word better.

Your trying to claim that I'm against education when you telling people to accept conjecture???

If you read the first post, I've already mentioned about the confusion were Allah created humans from similar elements he used to create others-which does NOT MAKE THEM OUR ANCESTOR-EITHER YOUR BACKTRACKING OR YOU HAVE A POOR UNDERSTANDING OF ENGLISH!. Trying to be nice, by telling us to be like those fools who spend their whole lives in pursuit but never able to reach heaven, by telling people to spend time reading conjecture instead of the truth that Allah has provided. When did Allah say that you have to listen to the evil doers?? Even in Islam we don't encourage people to read the bible.

We don't accept what the non-Muslims are saying, but you are wishing to say exactly the same thing as them, but by saying it agrees with the Quran you think it would be accepted by any Muslim-as we don't accept it with the wrong doers, why accept it from you when you are clearly as with the wrongdoers speak of issues that you do NOT have knowledge to. It reminds me of some "Muslims" who try and say homosexuality is not a sin, they speak of Islam their way, and you claim about "interpreting"-there is no such thing in Islam as the message is clear and simple, the only one "interpreting is you with your opinions when again you don't have any facts and knowledge of the matter from God.

You say that you wish to understand the words of Allah better and in order to do that you need to listen to what the wrongdoers are saying. This is were I'm laughing out loud.

:lol:

 

[Ahmad H]

When quoting from the Quran it is best to read it first-if you can't understand that one simple thing, then what do you understand, when have you seen Muslims reading up on the hindu idols and making stories and insults and jokes about Ganeesh, Krishna etc??? Why should we read and make up stories about idols?? AS of course they would be thinking about doing it with God, but again no Muslim would wish to read up on the abhorrent claims.

Agreed. No Muslims should waste their time on reading up on useless claims, because we know what is falsehood.

As Muslims WE OPPOSE IDOL WORSHIP IT IS ABHORRENT, AND WE TELL OTHERS THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS DISGUSTING. We oppose evil and enjoin what is good. We're not going to simply say ooh its just something that we don't accept as if someone is offering you a cup of tea.

Yes, we reject idol worship. But I don't see how this connects with learning about evolution.

Read on the basics of Islam, before jumping up and down telling people to accept evolution when the scientists don't understand it themselves, nor do they understand how this world was created, as God didn't give you the knowledge of how many people were sleeping in the cave beside the dog, what makes you think he has given you the rest of the details of how this universe was created?? Listen to how far wrong you are, saying to recognising Allah better??? Miracles of creation will open up to you, when you have not any communication with the next world, your acting as wrongdoers, when its not about being religious, but about arrogance and looking and desiring things that have NOTHING to do with you, not everything that Allah has created has to be known by humans. Its rather like scientists which look towards how the universe is related to humans, rather then Muslims accepting that this is a relationship between Allah and his creation, we weren't witnesses to Allah creating the angels, and the heavens. You are far astray with what you say, telling Muslims to accept in evolution when not even the scientists all agree, telling the Muslims that you think the clusters have something to do with the heavens were you have no knowledge only conjecture. IDLE CHIT CHAT.

Read on the basics of Islam? I know the basics. The basics tell me that I should learn about the universe and ponder over the signs of Allah.

2:164 Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.

3:190 Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,-
3:191 Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.

6:97 It is He Who maketh the stars (as beacons) for you, that ye may guide yourselves, with their help, through the dark spaces of land and sea: We detail Our signs for people who know.
6:98 It is He Who hath produced you from a single person: here is a place of sojourn and a place of departure: We detail Our signs for people who understand.
6:99 It is He Who sendeth down rain from the skies: with it We produce vegetation of all kinds: from some We produce green (crops), out of which We produce grain, heaped up (at harvest); out of the date-palm and its sheaths (or spathes) (come) clusters of dates hanging low and near: and (then there are) gardens of grapes, and olives, and pomegranates, each similar (in kind) yet different (in variety): when they begin to bear fruit, feast your eyes with the fruit and the ripeness thereof. Behold! in these things there are signs for people who believe.

7:185 Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message after this will they then believe?

10:3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?
10:4 To Him will be your return- of all of you. The promise of Allah is true and sure. It is He Who beginneth the process of creation, and repeateth it, that He may reward with justice those who believe and work righteousness; but those who reject Him will have draughts of boiling fluids, and a penalty grievous, because they did reject Him.
10:5 It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.
10:6 Verily, in the alternation of the night and the day, and in all that Allah hath created, in the heavens and the earth, are signs for those who fear Him.

13:2 Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
13:3 And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!
13:4 And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!

16:10 It is He who sends down rain from the sky: from it ye drink, and out of it (grows) the vegetation on which ye feed your cattle.
16:11 With it He produces for you corn, olives, date-palms, grapes and every kind of fruit: verily in this is a sign for those who give thought.
16:12 He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise.
16:13 And the things on this earth which He has multiplied in varying colours (and qualities): verily in this is a sign for men who celebrate the praises of Allah (in gratitude).
16:14 It is He Who has made the sea subject, that ye may eat thereof flesh that is fresh and tender, and that ye may extract therefrom ornaments to wear; and thou seest the ships therein that plough the waves, that ye may seek (thus) of the bounty of Allah and that ye may be grateful.

16:65 And Allah sends down rain from the skies, and gives therewith life to the earth after its death: verily in this is a Sign for those who listen.
16:66 And verily in cattle (too) will ye find an instructive sign. From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood, We produce, for your drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it.
16:67 And from the fruit of the date-palm and the vine, ye get out wholesome drink and food: behold, in this also is a sign for those who are wise.
16:68 And thy Lord taught the Bee to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in (men's) habitations;
16:69 Then to eat of all the produce (of the earth), and find with skill the spacious paths of its Lord: there issues from within their bodies a drink of varying colours, wherein is healing for men: verily in this is a Sign for those who give thought.

16:79 Do they not look at the birds, held poised in the midst of (the air and) the sky? Nothing holds them up but (the power of) Allah. Verily in this are signs for those who believe.

20:53 "He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
20:54 Eat (for yourselves) and pasture your cattle: verily, in this are Signs for men endued with understanding.

21:30 Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
21:31 And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.
21:32 And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

26:7 Do they not look at the earth,- how many noble things of all kinds We have produced therein?
26:8 Verily, in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe.

27:86 See they not that We have made the Night for them to rest in and the Day to give them light? Verily in this are Signs for any people that believe!

29:44 Allah created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): verily in that is a Sign for those who believe.

30:8 Do they not reflect in their own minds? Not but for just ends and for a term appointed, did Allah create the heavens and the earth, and all between them: yet are there truly many among men who deny the meeting with their Lord (at the Resurrection)!

30:20 Among His Signs in this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!
30:21 And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
30:22 And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for those who know.
30:23 And among His Signs is the sleep that ye take by night and by day, and the quest that ye (make for livelihood) out of His Bounty: verily in that are signs for those who hearken.
30:24 And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead: verily in that are Signs for those who are wise.
30:25 And among His Signs is this, that heaven and earth stand by His Command: then when He calls you, by a single call, from the earth, behold, ye (straightway) come forth.
30:26 To Him belongs every being that is in the heavens and on earth: all are devoutly obedient to Him.
30:27 It is He Who begins (the process of) creation; then repeats it; and for Him it is most easy. To Him belongs the loftiest similitude (we can think of) in the heavens and the earth: for He is Exalted in Might, full of wisdom.
30:28 He does propound to you a similitude from your own (experience): do ye have partners among those whom your right hands possess, to share as equals in the wealth We have bestowed on you? Do ye fear them as ye fear each other? Thus do we explain the Signs in detail to a people that understand.
30:29 Nay, the wrong-doers (merely) follow their own lusts, being devoid of knowledge. But who will guide those whom Allah leaves astray? To them there will be no helpers.

45:3 Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe.
45:4 And in the creation of yourselves and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are Signs for those of assured Faith.
45:5 And in the alternation of Night and Day, and the fact that Allah sends down Sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds,- are Signs for those that are wise.
45:6 Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition will they believe after (rejecting) Allah and His Signs?

45:13 And He has subjected to you, as from Him, all that is in the heavens and on earth: Behold, in that are Signs indeed for those who reflect.

50:6 Do they not look at the sky above them?- How We have made it and adorned it, and there are no flaws in it?
50:7 And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-
50:8 To be observed and commemorated by every devotee turning (to Allah).
50:9 And We send down from the sky rain charted with blessing, and We produce therewith gardens and Grain for harvests;
50:10 And tall (and stately) palm-trees, with shoots of fruit-stalks, piled one over another;-
50:11 As sustenance for (Allah's) Servants;- and We give (new) life therewith to land that is dead: Thus will be the Resurrection.

51:47 With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
51:48 And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!
51:49 And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.

67:3 He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?
67:4 Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out.

80:24 Then let man look at his food, (and how We provide it):
80:25 For that We pour forth water in abundance,
80:26 And We split the earth in fragments,
80:27 And produce therein corn,
80:28 And Grapes and nutritious plants,
80:29 And Olives and Dates,
80:30 And enclosed Gardens, dense with lofty trees,
80:31 And fruits and fodder,-
80:32 For use and convenience to you and your cattle.

These are 70 verses of the Qur'an that are focused on telling the believers to reflect over the various creations of Allah. Everything is included in these. Furthermore, there are verses which tells us to visit the habitations of the people of old. Archaeological digs found many other civilizations uncovered who were idolaters that were destroyed by Allah. Did not Allah say that most of the civilizations that are gone now from the past used to be idolaters, and He brought our attention to that? Without the recent sciences and advances in research in human history, we would not have known this.

 

[h-n]

Agreed. No Muslims should waste their time on reading up on useless claims, because we know what is falsehood.



Yes, we reject idol worship. But I don't see how this connects with learning about evolution.



Read on the basics of Islam? I know the basics. The basics tell me that I should learn about the universe and ponder over the signs of Allah.


These are 70 verses of the Qur'an that are focused on telling the believers to reflect over the various creations of Allah. Everything is included in these. Furthermore, there are verses which tells us to visit the habitations of the people of old. Archaeological digs found many other civilizations uncovered who were idolaters that were destroyed by Allah. Did not Allah say that most of the civilizations that are gone now from the past used to be idolaters, and He brought our attention to that? Without the recent sciences and advances in research in human history, we would not have known this.

As already stated Allah has talked of what he has provided to us to listen to him, heed his messages (EVEN THE VERSES STATE OF HOW THE WRONGDOERS REJECT HIS SIGNS ) that there is one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. That these are signs of Allah's mercy on providing us with the weather and the stars. People have already stated the burial places of Aad and Thamud to be in Yemen no matter how many dead bodies they are going to dig up-how do they know who they are going to belong to-it is only conjecture.

Even if you knew about hydrogens and heliums of what they say about stars etc, it doesn't change the fact that they are viewed as something created by Allah, people don't even fully understand the human body let alone the Universe. If that is your goal are you saying that you will fully understand the Universe before you die???


WHERE DOES IT STATE THAT ALLAH IS ASKING YOU TO FIND OUT HOW THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED??? HE HAS CREATED IT AND AS ABOVE VERSES THAT IS ENOUGH OF HIS SIGNS. HE ISN'T ASKING ANYONE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE STARS ARE MADE FROM TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HIM, IF THAT WAS REQUIRED HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THAT KNOWLEDGE A LONG TIME AGO. HOW WILL YOU BETTER UNDERSTAND ALLAH THEN THE COMPANIONS OF THE PROPHET (AS YOU SAY DID NOT HAVE SUCH AND SUCH INFORMATION-WHICH THE WRONGDOERS ARE HELPING YOU TO UNDERSTAND)????

WHERE DOES IT STATE THAT AFTER 1000 YEARS, SOME WRONGDOERS ARE GOING TO HELP YOU TO "RECOGNISE ALLAH MORE", AND THAT YOU NEED THEM TO UNDERSTAND THE QURAN, AS YOU PUT IT. HOW ARE YOU BETTER IN UNDERSTANDING GOD THEN ANYONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS WORLD, HOW DOES THAT CHANGE KNOWING THAT JUPITER HAS SO MANY MOONS ETC.

You talk of evolution, knowing that its only heresay, and and that you state you have learnt more WHEN you even ASK for people on this forum to provide you with a basic texts of evolution in Islam -when if you are learnt in a subject you should have no trouble in talking about it, and nothing in the Quran speaks that we evolved. He created us as seperate beings.

 

[Ahmad H]

You say that you wish to understand the words of Allah better and in order to do that you need to listen to what the wrongdoers are saying. This is were I'm laughing out loud.

I am not telling you to read conjecture. Science is not a religion. I am not telling you to read anything foolish. Evolution is not Atheism, if this is what you think. Evolution is a branch of the biological sciences, which deals with the study of life.

It reminds me of some "Muslims" who try and say homosexuality is not a sin, they speak of Islam their way, and you claim about "interpreting"-there is no such thing in Islam as the message is clear and simple, the only one "interpreting is you with your opinions when again you don't have any facts and knowledge of the matter from God.

A whole bunch of scholars have mentioned scientific facts when they explained the Qur'an: Al-Ghazzali, Fakhruddin ar-Razi, Mufti Muhammad Shafi'i, Maulana Maududi, Sayyid Qutb, Muhammad Asad and Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

These are just the scholars I am mostly aware of. Who are you to talk of opinions here? You are rejecting a method of Tafsir which many scholars of Islam have adopted. None of this is contradictory to the classical Tafsir. I have not heard of you mentioning the opinion of a single scholar so far, just your own opinions on the Qur'an. It is fine for me to say what I say because I know what I'm talking about based upon scholarly analysis of the Qur'an. Even Imam Sirhindi (ra), one of the Mujaddids of Islam, used scientific knowledge to explain the Qur'an. He accepted this as well. He even mentioned how Ibn Arabi explained how there have been many Adams (as) in the past, and that Ibn Arabi saw his ancestor from 40000 years ago, circuiting the Ka'abah. If you don't believe me, read Imam Sirhindi's First Fascile of letters. It is available online. I am not making any of this up.

So where is your backing of your view? Are you going to call me one of the wrongdoers again as your defense and claim that the scholars of Islam, over ten of them ranging from multiple time periods, were all wrong and that you are right, some sister sitting on her computer calling herself a know-it-all? Stop being arrogant and go read up on science. The scholars of Islam have said that nature is not contradictory to the Word of Allah. What we find in nature is already explained in Allah's Book.

You say that you wish to understand the words of Allah better and in order to do that you need to listen to what the wrongdoers are saying. This is were I'm laughing out loud.

Well, if you think that the scholars of Islam, who listened to these wrongdoers is wrong, then I don't know what is right. Were Muslim scientists wrong to learn about nature as well? You do know that some scholars of Islam in the past studied science, right? Ask yourself this question.

 

[h-n]

I am not telling you to read conjecture. Science is not a religion. I am not telling you to read anything foolish. Evolution is not Atheism, if this is what you think. Evolution is a branch of the biological sciences, which deals with the study of life.



A whole bunch of scholars have mentioned scientific facts when they explained the Qur'an: Al-Ghazzali, Fakhruddin ar-Razi, Mufti Muhammad Shafi'i, Maulana Maududi, Sayyid Qutb, Muhammad Asad and Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

These are just the scholars I am mostly aware of. Who are you to talk of opinions here? You are rejecting a method of Tafsir which many scholars of Islam have adopted. None of this is contradictory to the classical Tafsir. I have not heard of you mentioning the opinion of a single scholar so far, just your own opinions on the Qur'an. It is fine for me to say what I say because I know what I'm talking about based upon scholarly analysis of the Qur'an. Even Imam Sirhindi (ra), one of the Mujaddids of Islam, used scientific knowledge to explain the Qur'an. He accepted this as well. He even mentioned how Ibn Arabi explained how there have been many Adams (as) in the past, and that Ibn Arabi saw his ancestor from 40000 years ago, circuiting the Ka'abah. If you don't believe me, read Imam Sirhindi's First Fascile of letters. It is available online. I am not making any of this up.

So where is your backing of your view? Are you going to call me one of the wrongdoers again as your defense and claim that the scholars of Islam, over ten of them ranging from multiple time periods, were all wrong and that you are right, some sister sitting on her computer calling herself a know-it-all? Stop being arrogant and go read up on science. The scholars of Islam have said that nature is not contradictory to the Word of Allah. What we find in nature is already explained in Allah's Book.



Well, if you think that the scholars of Islam, who listened to these wrongdoers is wrong, then I don't know what is right. Were Muslim scientists wrong to learn about nature as well? You do know that some scholars of Islam in the past studied science, right? Ask yourself this question.

You keep talking of reading on science where they DON'T KNOW THEMSELVES. But your telling people to accept something that you don't understand either, then quote scholars, of course we deal with facts, this is what you are not doing!..

I will never join you in what you say, onto your way, and onto me mine. I refuse to join the foolish who say that people did not understand the Quran in the past and the wrongdoers are helping you to understand it.

 

[Ahmad H]

You talk of evolution, knowing that its only heresay, and and that you yourself have learnt more WHEN you even ASK for people on this forum to provide you with a basic texts of evolution in Islam

I was asking someone to provide texts or online articles for your sake. I know you don't have patience for this subject, so I wanted someone else to send a link so perhaps you could read it and learn about it. But you seem to be bent on hurling abuse at me instead.

I will go ahead and say this, that if you even reject how Islamic scholars look at the Qur'an using science, and still reject this way of understanding the Qur'an, then you are going off into the wrong direction. You should be humble and accept that they have used scientific evidence to understand the Qur'an as well.

when if you are learnt in a subject you should have no trouble in talking about it, and nothing in the Quran speaks that we evolved. He created us as seperate beings.

Rather than taking up a huge amount of space here, I have an article which presents the same information I would have given you, except with greater evidence and is more comprehensive in using the Holy Qur'an:
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islamic ...on in the Holy Qur'an By Hassan El-Najjar.htm

Two scholars who believe evolution is reconciled with the Qur'an are Jamal Ad-din Afghani and Ghulam Ahmed Parwez. Yes, there are many other scholars who may reject this view, but many of those scholars still use modern science to explain certain views in the Qur'an. That is undeniable.

Thus, there is more than enough evidence in the Qur'an which supports evolution.

 

[h-n]

I was asking someone to provide texts or online articles for your sake. I know you don't have patience for this subject, so I wanted someone else to send a link so perhaps you could read it and learn about it. But you seem to be bent on hurling abuse at me instead.

I will go ahead and say this, that if you even reject how Islamic scholars look at the Qur'an using science, and still reject this way of understanding the Qur'an, then you are going off into the wrong direction. You should be humble and accept that they have used scientific evidence to understand the Qur'an as well.



Rather than taking up a huge amount of space here, I have an article which presents the same information I would have given you, except with greater evidence and is more comprehensive in using the Holy Qur'an:
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islamic ...on in the Holy Qur'an By Hassan El-Najjar.htm

Two scholars who believe evolution is reconciled with the Qur'an are Jamal Ad-din Afghani and Ghulam Ahmed Parwez. Yes, there are many other scholars who may reject this view, but many of those scholars still use modern science to explain certain views in the Qur'an. That is undeniable.

Thus, there is more than enough evidence in the Qur'an which supports evolution.

You mean you can't explain it, just repeating the same old saying so and so said this, and this. Your trying to defend something that you can't explain. :lol:


I don't accept evolution, just Allah fashioning creation, quote as many scholars as you like and stand together on the Day of Judgement, as I am not a party who stands with you!

 

[Ahmad H]

You keep talking of reading on science where they DON'T KNOW THEMSELVES. But your telling people to accept something that you don't understand either, then quote scholars, of course we deal with facts, this is what you are not doing!..

I will never join you in what you say, onto your way, and onto me mine. I refuse to join the foolish who say that people did not understand the Quran in the past and the wrongdoers are helping you to understand it.

When did I say I do not understand evolution? I have at least read about it and learned about it in school. I have studied Physics in university and completed a degree in it. So don't tell me what I know or don't know.

I never said that people in the past were wrong in their interpretation of the Qur'an. There you go again twisting my words.

 

[Ahmad H]

I don't accept evolution, just Allah fashioning creation, quote as many scholars as you like and stand together on the Day of Judgement, as I am not a party who stands with you!

I never told you to accept evolution. I told you to read up on it rather than falsify the theory itself based on opinions. My point is that you should learn it because there is no harm in learning it. It is not a religion or an Atheist's perspective on God. It is simply scientific information, just like you read up on the human body to understand medicine and how to take care of yourself.

And since you reject the scholars themselves, I guess you don't accept the earlier scholars either. You have no understanding of the methods of Tafsir. Using scientific knowledge is only going to be done based upon how the classical Tafsirs were done as well. This is in the realm of Ilm al-Diraya. You should read up on how Tafsir is done and you will understand why scholars did Tafsir this way.

 

[Ahmad H]

There is no such things as INTERPRETATION of the Quran, there is only one Message, you've already stated that people didn't fully understand the Quran in the past, and the wrongdoers have helped you to understand the Quran better.

So you reject Ibn Kathir's tafsir? Imam Tabari's Tafsir? Mujahid (ra)'s Tafsir? The Tafsir the Holy Prophet (saw) was given from Jibril (as)? Tafsir is "explanation". And yes, scholarly opinions are allowed, because they are based upon the classical sources. I already told you that science helps us to better understand them.

And WHEN DID I SAY I TOOK FROM THE WRONGDOERS? Muslims are scientists too. They learned about nature. Do you have no knowledge of your Islam's historical past?

 

[h-n]

I never told you to accept evolution. I told you to read up on it rather than falsify the theory itself based on opinions. My point is that you should learn it because there is no harm in learning it. It is not a religion or an Atheist's perspective on God. It is simply scientific information, just like you read up on the human body to understand medicine and how to take care of yourself.

And since you reject the scholars themselves, I guess you don't accept the earlier scholars either. You have no understanding of the methods of Tafsir. Using scientific knowledge is only going to be done based upon how the classical Tafsirs were done as well. This is in the realm of Ilm al-Diraya. You should read up on how Tafsir is done and you will understand why scholars did Tafsir this way.

You trying to use different examples, one is more of factual evidence of the human body and the other evolution is heresay- were the SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND, but yet your quick to accept it and say that its as per the Quran and EVEN THOUGH THEY WILL NEVER KNOW AS ALLAH DID NOT PROVIDE THEM WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE. They can't go to heaven and start finding out were about earth was split from it. You can quote as many scholars as you like as what you have written is evidence that what you don't know what your talking about.

 

[facethetruth]

Brother and Sister pls lets stop this argument. When we say there is Evolution that transfer an organism from a species to another it is wrong scientifically and Haram. When we say evolution happen in the same species it is a fact and nothing wrong with it like what happened to bears in different areas from the world. It is as simple as that we can use this time with thikir or learning other beneficial materials. This is very clear and who ever wants to read more there is expelled no intelligence allowed and remember the Hadeth that the prophet prayers and peace be upon him said if someone leave and argument and knows that on truth I will grant him a house in heaven.

 

[h-n]

Brother and Sister pls lets stop this argument. When we say there is Evolution that transfer an organism from a species to another it is wrong scientifically and Haram. When we say evolution happen in the same species it is a fact and nothing wrong with it like what happened to bears in different areas from the world. It is as simple as that we can use this time with thikir or learning other beneficial materials. This is very clear and who ever wants to read more there is expelled no intelligence allowed and remember the Hadeth that the prophet prayers and peace be upon him said if someone leave and argument and knows that on truth I will grant him a house in heaven.

I have no problem with leaving the thread as it is.