Because Allah had ordained that the offspring of Adam and Eve (may Allah be pleased with my ancestral mother and father) offspring be sorted into tribes...
You are here saying that this change over time did happen, by a sorting process from an entity named Allah. We are therefore in agreement, that such a change over time did happen. The question is then: How does Allah sort offspring into tribes?
Adam and Eve had much longer lifespans than we do today, some say 1000 yrs or so.
An interesting thing happens when the ages that are given in scripture are converted from lunar age, to seasonal age, by dividing by 13. Their ages are then a good number of years long, lived to be over 80, but not impossible today.
I personally think that early translators were unaware of the way their age was being determined, which may have required counting moons because of the now common yearly/seasonal calendar not having been invented yet.
They gave birth to many children, and Allah made it a miracle that Eve's pregnancy would only last one day, the very next she'd give birth to a pair of twins (always a boy and a girl) who shared very different DNA and they were forbidden from marrying eachother because they were twins.
Scriptures describe many children and that is easily possible. A pregnancy that lasts only one day, is a problem reconciling with science, but is not common in scripture so is not a problem for religion if it were the usual 9 months.
Instead, it was ordained by divine decree that that the first son be married to the second daughter and vice versa... because they were racially compatible.
They filled the land with tribes that could recognised eachothers racial features... this is how it happened. I can find you a link if you like.
The book, Qisas al Anbiya by Ibn Kathir explains this somewhat. So do others.
I am interested in reading more on it, and noticed you already have something else to study.
I liked your question, it was a good one.
I'm guessing you're a man of science
Yes, you can say I was born this way. But then again, even you search for answers to how things work and are here in this “science” forum too. We are much the same, just grew up in different religious cultures saying much the same but in different words.
I adhere to the (in science called) “scientific method” that Prophet Muhammad explained, where discovering how living things work can only bring all of us closer to our Creator. Science may at times seem like it is against religion but that’s where one needs faith that it is not really that way. We then have to hurry up and discover what puts that all behind us, by reconciling the two without either suffering. So yes I am a man of science, but I have a religious side that makes my otherwise still doing the best I can to walk in the shoes of the prophet something that gets me called names in other science forums and other places they think that’s nuts. You can be sure I’m glad this is not one of them! I’m much more at home here describing my exact scientific method, to someone like you.
- since your handle is science 101... as a scientologist, would you agree that science, cannot explain everything?
Yes I agree that there are many things that science cannot (at least yet) explain. But this is one of those times where advancing science is necessary to get us through this faith-unfriendly period in time, by for-real having a way to bring us closer to (no matter what regional/tribal name is used) our Creator. In especially Western culture the controversial “Theory of Intelligent Design” has become useful because of its premise describing something real, that became science included with my Intelligence Design Lab that is now available for download at Planet Source Code:
http://www.planet-source-code.com/vb/scripts/ShowCode.asp?txtCodeId=74175&lngWId=1
A version of the software with compiled .exe to run with Windows is with the newest text of theory (being compiled for a book) is here in Microsoft Word format:
https://sites.google.com/site/intelligenceprograms/Home/TheoryOfIntelligentDesign.doc
Or Google Viewer:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...pZ2VuY2Vwcm9ncmFtc3xneDo1NWEyNjA2NzZmN2NiNTEx
Over the years I have been keeping the forum updated on how that science project is going, but is the sort of thing that just comes up in normal discussion like now because of you asking so many good questions for me to answer!
And where logic and science fail, you have to recognise an innate quality that resides within your own self called faith?
I believe that science and religion are the same thing, the search for what created us and how the universe works. Religion is from scripture, and is handed down to us over generations of time. Science is knowledge of how things work, that can be experimented with, to answer questions in more detail. When properly used, both compliment each other. But when limitations of scientific theories are gone beyond there is a problem.
With all said “Evolution” is not even a single theory it’s just a word many like to use to say that somehow something led to regional differences, like you explained too. You are then not inherently in conflict with science you just summed it up and with great faith in what makes this “Evolution” possible. But I am sure you know how others will right away ridicule you for being an “Evolution Denier” and worse. That is not “science” it is an opinion being made to appear scientific by going beyond the limitations of a theory and not properly explaining things. I certainly cannot blame you for thinking that science itself is bad for religion.
Sure you do... you have faith in your science, right?
Yes, when properly used it provides answers that ancient scriptures and religion do not give exact details of, just say happened. For example we both know we were somehow created, but no religion has the information required to find Adam and Eve in our genetic code. For that we need to know about “Human Chromosome Speciation” to find the DNA evidence needed to show that they existed, which is one of the things I use science for.
I have faith in my Allah. And Allah showed me science, but science can never show you Allah... because Allah exists outside of the space time continuum... I guess Islam wins this one, hands down.
Prayers are still said to reach that far, in a sense brings some of what Allah is made of to Mecca. If there were no connection to our Creator possible that way then it would make no sense for you to pray. Therefore being outside this space time continuum is not being totally disconnected. What is scientifically important was already explained in words by Prophet Muhammad who later inspired the Golden Age of Islamic Science (and Math) because of them. I think you will know you made it that far trying to walk in his shoes, after the next Golden Age of Islamic Science peacefully begins. There is still plenty left to discover, so what once made places like Iraq the world’s scientific leader can again happen. Have to see science as Prophet Muhammad did, as part of the healthy and somewhat sacred search for our Creator that goes on way after him, and did for a few hundred or so years then for some reason fizzled out. Historians are not sure why and in threads from way back in years in this forum we had some discussion on that, which indicated that East/West conflict shifted priorities away from developing math and science. But that alone that does not explain the loss of vision that once resolved such conflicts too. At least it is certain that his message has a way of inspiring a Golden Age of Science. It might be hard to fully understand it in a way that makes sense our times, but it’s still there to be read, in hope that it works as well for you as it did for the early Arab scientists that helped make our modern science what it is today.
peace.
Scimi
EDIT: sorry, I thought you was a scientologist - you're an agnostic. my apologies.
No apology needed, but I’m glad you mentioned that! I had to choose my religion from a list but there was no “A Little of Everything” or something more descriptive. Agnosticism is often redefined like it’s a form of Atheism, when it includes ones like me who grew up in a Christian community and want to make those who took the time to train me to be a religious leader proud of what I accomplish. But these days, finding such an inspiration in Prophet Muhammad can be seen like it’s collaborating with “terrorists” and my scientific way of having to explain things is not exactly what all have in mind as “teaching the truth” according to the Bible. I see all religions that were on the list as the search for our Creator with the only difference for Atheists is they say it was “natural causes” but otherwise they also have to agree that we were somehow created or they could not exist.
I picked the closest there was, even though you would have to know me to understand my religion. Not even I know how to precisely name it. When young and the cartoon new on television I was fascinated by Hadji in the Jonny Quest science cartoon, who would explain things in a more historical/cultural context that the scientists would then find important for better understanding of what they are seeing. Some said the cartoon was somehow showing a negative image of Muslim culture by having him aboard too. But I did not see that, that’s what you would get where he was written out of the script for being much like you and have to explain things another way that when explored is saying much the same thing as the scientists are. That’s something from Christian culture that at an early age helped me think more worldly about culture and religion and how that relates to science that makes it possible for us to all be here at the same time, which is a good thing. But of course there are limits and science can be dangerous, yet so is living off whatever can be scavenged in a primitive savage world where there is no science to build a dwelling or even a campfire to keep the insects and animals away while we sleep. We have to take the good with the bad and hope that this scientific and also religious search that ultimately leads to our Creator also leads to peace when the different paths we are on become one much larger one that leaves none out. And even Atheists have a purpose, by at least being annoying enough to others to motivate them to beat whatever science they think they have, so you can say Allah knows best there too and made us different, for a good reason that keeps us heading in the right direction. ;D