Facing Mecca

[Nicola]

Just a quick question please

We know God is everywhere, so why must Muslims face Mecca to pray..
what is the reason for this?

thanks

 

[itsme01]

When it is said: that God is everywhere - it does not mean that God is on Earth. That is a common misconception - even within Muslims. As God is nothing that we can imagine.

 

[Nicola]

When it is said: that God is everywhere - it does not mean that God is on Earth. That is a common misconception - even within Muslims. As God is nothing that we can imagine.

thanks for the reply but it doesn't answer my question


I believe God can go where ever he wants and see's everything we do, even when man can't...not that we can see him though, but we do feel his presence around us.

Jesus taught us to pray to the father quietly, behind closed doors...he said our body is the temple and not some building...and we were to worship God from anywhere and everywhere....Jesus also tells us if we know him, we know the Father...so as Christians we do know what God is like. We also know God is a loving Father because of the Love and Mercy he gives each of us..

When the Jews where captured and sent to Babylon as slaves they realised they didn't need the Holy Temple to worship God in...That God was also in Babylon with them..and that they could worship him where ever they went because God was always there.

What I'd like to know is why do you face towards Mecca what is the reason for this?

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi Nicola

We know God is everywhere, so why must Muslims face Mecca to pray..
what is the reason for this?

God is not everywhere, He is above and beyond our universe. The Ka'ba in Makkah serves to unite all worshippers of God, across the globe and throughout time, in directing their prayers to God.

Muslims can worship God wherever we want, too. Like some other Christians you seem to be confusing Salah (formal prayer) with Dua (supplication) and Dhikr (contemplation on God).

Regards

 

[azim]

thanks for the reply but it doesn't answer my question

And to Allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the face of Allah. Surely! Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures needs, All-Knowing. 2:115

So why do we pray to Mecca?

Several reasons: -
1)By the very nature of Salah - we must face a direction. Thus, we face Mecca to have a direction during prayer which has been decided upon - lest Muslims argue over which direction to pray.
2)It reminds us of Hajj - one of the 5 Pillars and that it should be our goal to make the pilgrimage.
3)The Kabah is the original house of worship, present at Adams time, rebuilt by Abraham and purified by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It reminds us of our heritage and the message of the Prophets as well as the oneness of mankind.

There are many more reasons, however I stop here for the sake of brevity.

I believe God can go where ever he wants and see's everything we do, even when man can't...not that we can see him though, but we do feel his presence around us.

I too believe that, as said in the Quran: -

No vision can grasp Him, but His Grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Subtle and Courteous, WellAcquainted with all things. 6:103

Jesus taught us to pray to the father quietly, behind closed doors...he said our body is the temple and not some building...and we were to worship God from anywhere and everywhere

There is Salah and there is Dua.

Salah is the ritual prayer you often see.

Dua is what you would regard as prayer. Our own words beseeching Allah. We can make dua anywhere, anytime, anystate, any direction.

And indeed We have created man, and We know what his ownself whispers to him. And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. 50:16

Hope that clears thing up.

Peace.

 

[Nicola]

Hi Nicola

God is not everywhere, He is above and beyond our universe. The Ka'ba in Makkah serves to unite all worshippers of God, across the globe and throughout time, in directing their prayers to God.

Muslims can worship God wherever we want, too. Like some other Christians you seem to be confusing Salah (formal prayer) with Dua (supplication) and Dhikr (contemplation on God).

Regards

I would never limited God in anything at all.

with don't really do formal prays has such...neither reciting the same stuff over and over all the time...because Jesus tells us, God will not listen to repetative pray.
We are told by Jesus to talk to God like our Father, Christianity is more a personal relationship with God. For us God isn't like someone we can't really know or understand and talk about our problems and worries to.

 

[Nicola]

Several reasons: -
1)By the very nature of Salah - we must face a direction. Thus, we face Mecca to have a direction during prayer which has been decided upon - lest Muslims argue over which direction to pray.
2)It reminds us of Hajj - one of the 5 Pillars and that it should be our goal to make the pilgrimage.
3)The Kabah is the original house of worship, present at Adams time, rebuilt by Abraham and purified by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It reminds us of our heritage and the message of the Prophets as well as the oneness of mankind.

Thanks yes it has cleared it up...so really it isn't a command from God to pray to the east, just what man decided to do.

 

[Skillganon]

Pray to the east?

And it is not a command to what?

ANd what man decided to do?

 

[Nicola]

Pray to the east?

ok sorry Mecca...I'm thinking of the UK.

Did God say to pray to Mecca or man?

 

[azim]

God is not everywhere, He is above and beyond our universe.

I would never limited God in anything at all.

By saying God is everywhere - you are essentially saying God is in your room, yourself, your toilet, your fieces (audhubillah, astagfirallah for even suggesting it). So it is quite an easy and obvious conclusion that God is not everywhere - no doubt his knowledge and power is - but he personally isn't.

with don't really do formal prays has such...neither reciting the same stuff over and over all the time...because Jesus tells us, God will not listen to repetative pray.

So you have to come up with fresh material everytime you speak with God? Tough one.

We are told by Jesus to talk to God like our Father,

I often hear 'Jesus taught us...' followed by something Jesus never taught. Perhaps you could Biblically support your statements (by that I mean quotes from Jesus, not St. Paul or the Church).

Christianity is more a personal relationship with God. For us God isn't like someone we can't really know or understand and talk about our problems and worries to.

You cannot say you have a 'more' personal relationship as you do not know the relationship that Muslims have, so you cannot gauge.

I will say however that Islam offers us a very close relationship with God. Christians often believe that Allah is considered too far to be close (so to speak). From the verses I have shown you above, I hope you understand that Allah offers us a very close relationship with him (whether we take him up on that offer is another matter).

Bimillahhir rahmanir rahim.

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

It does not come through in the English, but the different between Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim is the difference between a merciful King and compassionate Friend.

 

[azim]

Thanks yes it has cleared it up...so really it isn't a command from God to pray to the east, just what man decided to do.

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Allah did command us to pray towards Mecca. Some of the reasons are listed in my previous post. It is not something man decided, it is something Allah decided in His wisdom.

 

[united]

I would never limited God in anything at all.

The direction is for the sake of unity.
Jesus (pbuh) did pray in the temple. Why? Why are there churches?
I was under the impression that Christians do NOT have a personal realationship with God (they have to go through Jesus pbuh)

another point. God is everywhere is used to mean that He sees, hears etc all things. However we cannot comment on His physical beingas we have no knowledge of that matter.

 

[extinction]

By saying God is everywhere - you are essentially saying God is in your room, yourself, your toilet, your fieces (audhubillah, astagfirallah for even suggesting it). So it is quite an easy and obvious conclusion that God is not everywhere - no doubt his knowledge and power is - but he personally isn't.



So you have to come up with fresh material everytime you speak with God? Tough one.



I often hear 'Jesus taught us...' followed by something Jesus never taught. Perhaps you could Biblically support your statements (by that I mean quotes from Jesus, not St. Paul or the Church).



You cannot say you have a 'more' personal relationship as you do not know the relationship that Muslims have, so you cannot gauge.

I will say however that Islam offers us a very close relationship with God. Christians often believe that Allah is considered too far to be close (so to speak). From the verses I have shown you above, I hope you understand that Allah offers us a very close relationship with him (whether we take him up on that offer is another matter).

Bimillahhir rahmanir rahim.

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

It does not come through in the English, but the different between Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim is the difference between a merciful King and compassionate Friend.

yo you is getting reps for that!!!!!!!

 

[Nicola]

By saying God is everywhere - you are essentially saying God is in your room, yourself, your toilet, your fieces (audhubillah, astagfirallah for even suggesting it). So it is quite an easy and obvious conclusion that God is not everywhere - no doubt his knowledge and power is - but he personally isn't.

yes God is everywhere...there is no need to be crude...God created us to use the toliet and everybody funtion, it is only peoples dirty minds that would think that way. For you it may be hard to conclude God is not everywhere...for Christians he is..

So you have to come up with fresh material everytime you speak with God? Tough one

.


Not at all...My life is ever changing I speak with God all the time...I don't know a Christian who does not..

I often hear 'Jesus taught us...' followed by something Jesus never taught. Perhaps you could Biblically support your statements (by that I mean quotes from Jesus, not St. Paul or the Church).

Matthew
Chapter 6
1 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
2
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing,
4
so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
5
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

6
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
7
3 4 In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words.

You cannot say you have a 'more' personal relationship as you do not know the relationship that Muslims have, so you cannot gauge.

No I do not know what is in each heart and how they talk with God personaly...but since joining here to learn about such things.....when Muslims mention and talk about God, God comes across as if he's a cold and very distant.

I will say however that Islam offers us a very close relationship with God. Christians often believe that Allah is considered too far to be close (so to speak). From the verses I have shown you above, I hope you understand that Allah offers us a very close relationship with him (whether we take him up on that offer is another matter).

I believe the difference is Muslims believe they will not know their future until judgement day...where as born-again have Jesus' reasurrance we will be in heaven with God for eternity no doubt about it.....and this gives Christians a phsycial life of freedom where as Muslims live in doubt. So I wonder if that is why Allah comes across as a more impersonal God because of the fear if you are sent to hell.

Bimillahhir rahmanir rahim.

In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

It does not come through in the English, but the different between Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim is the difference between a merciful King and compassionate Friend.

For us he is a Merciful King yea but he is also our Father.

 

[united]

If, just by believing in Jesus, you will go to heaven. Why bother with good deeds?

 

[Nicola]

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Allah did command us to pray towards Mecca. Some of the reasons are listed in my previous post. It is not something man decided, it is something Allah decided in His wisdom.

Sorry I mistook it you meant Muslims had decided this...to pray to Mecca

The reason you gave where really all what man had decided to do concerning pray..
where in the Quran does it actually say Allah said to face Mecca to pray to him and how to pray...
I would like to see the difference between what Jesus told us concerning prayer

 

[united]

Where in the bible does it say that if you belive inJesus as the Son of God that you will go to heaven?

 

[Nicola]

I would never limited God in anything at all. .

The direction is for the sake of unity.
Jesus (pbuh) did pray in the temple. Why? Why are there churches?

another point. God is everywhere is used to mean that He sees, hears etc all things. However we cannot comment on His physical beingas we have no knowledge of that matter.

for the sake of unity for who? but was this instuction from Allah?. Because God is everywhere I can't see why he would need everyone to face to a certain area... exaclty God is everywhere...he sees, hears and knows all...one every single human and every animal and creature...that what being everywhere means fo me, we don't have to have knowlege of his physcial being, to know he is all around us all every second of the day.

Jesus preached in the temple...the church is not a building as you might thing..the body of Christ are all Christians that is the church in fact....
we meet at buildings and also houses for fellowship and to preach the word of God and sing praises to God.

I was under the impression that Christians do NOT have a personal realationship with God (they have to go through Jesus pbuh)

No...there isn't one passage where we are told to pray to Jesus....Jesus himself tells us to pray to God...not him, not anyone else.
Jesus is our saviour he offered himself as a human sacrifice for us, we are covered and protected with his blood...he is also our intercessor he prayer to the Father on our behalf for mercy and help etc.

 

[azim]

yes God is everywhere...there is no need to be crude...God created us to use the toliet and everybody funtion, it is only peoples dirty minds that would think that way. For you it may be hard to conclude God is not everywhere...for Christians he is..

So you believe God is in the toilet? I will not go any further than that but the truth remains, you belittle God with that belief. Please reflect upon it. Also, is there such a verse in the Bible that states this?

Not at all...My life is ever changing I speak with God all the time...I don't know a Christian who does not..

That's good to hear.

Matthew
Chapter 6
1 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.

So woe to those who pray, but delay their prayer. Those who only perform good deeds to be seen of men. 107: 4-6

When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

If you give alms openly, it is well, and if you hide it and give it to the poor, it is better for you; and this will do away with some of your evil deeds; and Allah is aware of what you do. 2:217

No I do not know what is in each heart and how they talk with God personaly...but since joining here to learn about such things.....when Muslims mention and talk about God, God comes across as if he's a cold and very distant.

You are not the judge of my relationship with God, or the judge of any Muslims relationship with God. Please refrain from making such judgements without knowledge.

I do not feel I am close enough to God, but I feel closest in Dua (supplication) and in Salah (the ritual prayer). It is human nature to forget and Salah, 5 times a day (even on the busiest days), reminds us of our duty to Allah and of his presence in our lives.

I believe the difference is Muslims believe they will not know their future until judgement day...where as born-again have Jesus' reasurrance we will be in heaven with God for eternity no doubt about it.....and this gives Christians a phsycial life of freedom where as Muslims live in doubt. So I wonder if that is why Allah comes across as a more impersonal God because of the fear if you are sent to hell.

I do fear God, God is one to be feared as well as loved. It is an integral part of our relationship. If you do not fear God, then I feel your relationship is severely lacking.

For us he is a Merciful King yea but he is also our Father.

We would not call God our father but we would say he has the roles of a father.

 

[azim]

No...there isn't one passage where we are told to pray to Jesus....Jesus himself tells us to pray to God...not him, not anyone else.
Jesus is our saviour he offered himself as a human sacrifice for us, we are covered and protected with his blood...he is also our intercessor he prayer to the Father on our behalf for mercy and help etc.

Do you pray to Jesus?

You believe Jesus is your intercessor? Does that not ring a bell of the idolators who believe so and so is their intecessor to God because God cannot be talked to himself? Doesn't this suggest a more distant relationship.