Fairness of God?

[rebelutionary]

Also hows he gonna know abt folk in Asia etc?

124,000 prophets not a single non arab/israeli?

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FYI you missed the point!

Not a single mention of India or China... in the stories of the prophets..

 

[keiv]

How fair is the god of Islam?

Its something I only find emotionally charged replies, most people are like you don't know the full story of the others you perceive to be living the life. They give examples of rich being inflicted with disease as if it only comes to the rich, there ratio of sick poor people is higher than sick rich people. About prophets facing great hardship but always fail to mention they had direct intervention, today if I get thrown into a put of fire it will not do me such favors nor even if I was born in such an era. I find it absurd to expect us to follow such people when they were made superior by Islamic standards. Its like asking toyota corolla to perform like a ferrari. Nor were they encompassed in a riba based banking system or confronted with evolution.

I come from the subcontinent. I grew up seeing that the only way to make it better in life is to lie cheat and steal even the so called religious people the huzurs are very slimy.

So your excuse for stealing, lying, and cheating is by saying that Allah isn't fair? That's like people in the states blaming "the man" for holding them back while their friends, family and neighbors are out busting butt to make their lives better and not making excuses. And how are you going to complain about only finding emotionally charged replies when your thread appears to be based off of emotion to begin with?

 

[rebelutionary]

So your excuse for stealing, lying, and cheating is by saying that Allah isn't fair? That's like people in the states blaming "the man" for holding them back while their friends, family and neighbors are out busting butt to make their lives better and not making excuses. And how are you going to complain about only finding emotionally charged replies when your thread appears to be based off of emotion to begin with?

If someone used that I would understand.

For example, lets look at the Middle East, cities like Dubai and many others in the gulf are being built on slave labor. Have you seen how they are treated? Yet Allah keeps giving the Arabs more and more. Most of these labors are from the Indian subcontinent.

You guys fail to provide any logical answer to the questions asked you guys just come back with emotionally charged answers that beat around the bush.

 

[Zafran]

For example, lets look at the Middle East, cities like Dubai and many others in the gulf are being built on slave labor. Have you seen how they are treated? Yet Allah keeps giving the Arabs more and more. Most of these labors are from the Indian subcontinent.

Have you seen how corrupt the sub Continent is - that is not the Arabs fault (who have there own major issues), or anyone else its your own. There
are people in your own society that are corrupt. It needs a communal effort to eradicate diseases, poverty and illiteracy. This also includes killing female infants pre birth.

You guys fail to provide any logical answer to the questions asked you guys just come back with emotionally charged answers that beat around the bush.

what do you mean by this?

 

[azc]

Oh wow what logic... just because someone doesn't want to be in poverty it means that they love the dunia more!

Way to go!

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Dude seriously? The Quran is in Arabic, look at the amount of resources the Arabs have. Thats nothing? Most prophets mentioned in it are in or around arabia, no mention of other parts of the world. If it was meant for the whole world where is mention of China India and other places?

There is a reason why it is called an Abrahamic faith. The chosen people are of his lineage!

Who says you to live in poverty...?

 

[rebelutionary]

Have you seen how corrupt the sub Continent is - that is not the Arabs fault (who have there own major issues), or anyone else its your own. There
are people in your own society that are corrupt. It needs a communal effort to eradicate diseases, poverty and illiteracy. This also includes killing female infants pre birth.



what do you mean by this?

You evaded the question. Not that I wasn't expecting it! Lets discuss this further the arabs paying the Europeans an arm and a leg and almost nothing to the labor from the subcontinent, yet Allah has blessed them with petro dollars. Whilst the subcontinent for the most part is in dire poverty. I never said there is no corruption in the subcontinent.

What I meant was the amount of evasiveness practiced when questions are asked is uncanny. For example I was talking about the arabs, instead of answering my question or discussing you straight away jumped to the corruption in the subcontinent.

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Who says you to live in poverty...?

i lives in poverty becuz my daddy no arab shiekh with petro dollah

 

[azc]

You evaded the question. Not that I wasn't expecting it! Lets discuss this further the arabs paying the Europeans an arm and a leg and almost nothing to the labor from the subcontinent, yet Allah has blessed them with petro dollars. Whilst the subcontinent for the most part is in dire poverty. I never said there is no corruption in the subcontinent.

What I meant was the amount of evasiveness practiced when questions are asked is uncanny. For example I was talking about the arabs, instead of answering my question or discussing you straight away jumped to the corruption in the subcontinent.

- - - Updated - - -



i lives in poverty becuz my daddy no arab shiekh with petro dollah

so every Muslim whose father isn't an Arab shaykh is poor...?

 

[Zafran]

You evaded the question. Not that I wasn't expecting it! Lets discuss this further the arabs paying the Europeans an arm and a leg and almost nothing to the labor from the subcontinent, yet Allah has blessed them with petro dollars. Whilst the subcontinent for the most part is in dire poverty. I never said there is no corruption in the subcontinent.

This is not true - the arabs of Syria and Iraq are in a horrible place, So are the Arabs in Libya. The Egyptian are not having a good time at all after the arab spring under Sisi.

Yemen is also in war and famine.

UAE and Qatar are very small city states with small populations that have become rich because of foreign investment. However they have political differences recently with Saudi Arabia.

Resources wise the sub Continent is very rich, its why it has a high population compared to any other region on the planet, for Obvious reasons.

What I meant was the amount of evasiveness practiced when questions are asked is uncanny. For example I was talking about the arabs, instead of answering my question or discussing you straight away jumped to the corruption in the subcontinent.

Blaming the Arabs is not going to save the sub Continent instead you should do something about it. You have resources, biggest armies, Bollywood, Mumbai and some of the richest people on the planet.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

This is not true - the arabs of Syria and Iraq are in a horrible place, So are the Arabs in Libya. The Egyptian are not having a good time at all after the arab spring under Sisi.

Yemen is also in war and famine.

UAE and Qatar are very small city states with small populations that have become rich because of foreign investment. However they have political differences recently with Saudi Arabia.

Resources wise the sub Continent is very rich, its why it has a high population compared to any other region on the planet, for Obvious reasons.






Blaming the Arabs is not going to save the sub Continent instead you should do something about it. You have resources, biggest armies, Bollywood, Mumbai and some of the richest people on the planet.

Blaming the arabs or God isnt gonna help . Im from what would be regarded as an arab country and our issues arent leaving any time soon but im not going to get salty at God about it. We have the choice to help ourselves or not. Its called freewill and we have it for a reason. Just because the elites are abusing it doesnt mean we can blame god. We have responsibilites as humans, and its our fault for not upholding them.

 

[cinnamonrolls1]

Poverty exists because of our stupid decisions as humans. I mean, people complain we dont have enough food for the world when we do. Its just our lazy and selfish elites who are once again making things harder for the poor.

 

[azc]

Blaming the arabs or God isnt gonna help . Im from what would be regarded as an arab country and our issues arent leaving any time soon but im not going to get salty at God about it. We have the choice to help ourselves or not. Its called freewill and we have it for a reason. Just because the elites are abusing it doesnt mean we can blame god. We have responsibilites as humans, and its our fault for not upholding them.

He is angry with God for no reason.

 

[rebelutionary]

so every Muslim whose father isn't an Arab shaykh is poor...?

Most Muslims are poor with the exception of Gulf arabs

Blaming the arabs or God isnt gonna help . Im from what would be regarded as an arab country and our issues arent leaving any time soon but im not going to get salty at God about it. We have the choice to help ourselves or not. Its called freewill and we have it for a reason. Just because the elites are abusing it doesnt mean we can blame god. We have responsibilites as humans, and its our fault for not upholding them.

When was I ever blaming them? All I did was state that with the amount of wrongdoings the Arabs are doing Allah keeps giving them more. If helping oneself and free will lead to prosperity, most of the poverty in the world would diminish. Of course we can blame god, he is helping them and not us.


Tell me this who works harder the labor working all day in heat of the desert or the sheikh who owns the building.

Poverty exists because of our stupid decisions as humans. I mean, people complain we dont have enough food for the world when we do. Its just our lazy and selfish elites who are once again making things harder for the poor.

I dont blame the elites for this actually, they are doing it because it serves their interest, why should they be on the look out for us. The "nafsi Nafsi" ethos applies here.

He is angry with God for no reason.

Not angry just upset for getting the short end of the stick.

 

[Scimitar]

Dude seriously? The Quran is in Arabic, look at the amount of resources the Arabs have. Thats nothing? Most prophets mentioned in it are in or around arabia, no mention of other parts of the world. If it was meant for the whole world where is mention of China India and other places?

There is a reason why it is called an Abrahamic faith. The chosen people are of his lineage!

“And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghoot (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghoot besides Allah)” [an-Nahl 16:36].

Hence it is part of the justice of Allah that He has decreed that He will not punish anyone whom the call of the Prophets and Messengers did not reach, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):“And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)” [al-Isra’ 17:15]

“This is because your Lord would not destroy the (populations of) towns for their wrongdoing (i.e. associating others in worship along with Allah) while their people were unaware (so the Messengers were sent)” [al-An ‘am 6:131].

But Allah has not told us the stories of all the Messengers; rather He has only told us the stories of some of them. He has not told us the stories of most of them, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):“And Messengers We have mentioned to you before, and Messengers We have not mentioned to you” [an-Nisa’ 4:164].

Based on that, the idea that the Prophets were only sent to one region of the world is not correct; rather Allah sent Messengers to all the nations of the earth.

I suggest you read this thread here before you try exercising your uneducated opinion on this matter:

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE OWNER OF THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT

The Concept of God
​

For most of us, we presuppose a premise that God is above any need or want - and hold fast to this idea as a firm base for belief.

However, we as a species are diverse and have many languages. And with prejudice, we often build up barriers which stop us from learning about each others true theology.

We may find we have more in common than not.

One of the main factors I see prop up on forums is the idea that if a God is of a different name - it is a different God. If the theology is different, then yes - it's a different god that is worshipped.

But in most cases I have found that people of the world, even parts where Islam may never have reached, have had held onto the idea that God is 1 and is above need and want - is the creator of all. And this alludes to the possibility of prophets who may have visited these people in an ancient past undocumented.

As wondrous as this is, we find ourselves arguing and debating idiots with agendas on forums without giving eachother much of a chance to actually share something amazing which can make us all really take a step back in wonderment and appreciate God in all His magnificence as much as we humanly can.

yes, we still find the odd person who will say "Your God is different to my god because the names are different".

I don't believe it matters, as long as we are referring to the same God - the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, Everything - we should aim to call him by the best of names.

It's quite fascinating to learn that even the jungle cultures of this world have remarkable similarities to the Monotheistic concept of God, and how the concept relates directly to the rendering of the spoken name of God.

THE ZULU CONCEPT

In South Africa, the Zulus, a very virile and militant people - a nation akin to the Qureish of pre- Islamic Arabia - have given a name to God Almighty - uMVELINQANGI. This word when properly articulated in its own dialect, sounds identical to the Arabic words Walla-hu-gani, meaning - "And Allah is Rich" (Bounteous). It also sounds like "Allegany" of the Red Indians of North America (Remember their ALLEGANY mountain). The origin or real meaning of the word "Allegany," is not commonly known to the American people. But ask any Zulu as to who or what this uMvelinqangi is and he will surely explain to you in Zulu:

"HAWU UMNIMZANI! UYENA, UMOYA OINGCWELE. AKAZALI YENA, FUTHI AKAZALWANGA; FUTHI, AKUKHO LUTMO OLU FANA NAYE."

Believe me, this is almost a word for word translation of Sura Ikhlas, Chapter 112 of the Holy Qur'an.

SAY: HE IS ALLAH THE ONE AND ONLY;

ALLAH, THE ETERNAL ABSOLUTE;

HE BEGETTETH NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN:

AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM. - Holy Qur'an 112:1-4

Now, compare the above verses with my free translation of what the Zulu actually said:

"Oh Sir! He is a pure and Holy Spirit, He does not beget and He is not begotten, and further there is nothing like Him."

Every African tribe, South of the Zambesi River, that is, in Southern Africa, have given different names to the Almighty - Tixo, Modimo, uNkulunkulu, etc., and each and every African language group will take pains to explain the same pure and holy concept as the Zulu. It is to the glory of the African nations that though they had no written languages, and hence no written records, therefore not being able to recount the names of their respective prophets, yet not a single one of the tribes ever stooped down to worshipping idols or images of either of men or animals, until the White man first introduced his religion and gave the African his anthropomorphic concept of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, and brought the African down to bowing before the statues of Jesus, Mary, St. Joseph, St. Christopher and so on.

Out of the dozens of African tribes inhabiting this part of the world, not a single one of them ever made "umfanegisos"(images) of their God. Yet they were capable of carving out of wood, elephants and lions, and reproducing men and women also, in clay. Besides, the Zulus also had some knowledge of metallurgy. When questioned an old Zulu as to the reason, why the Africans did not make umfanegisos of their Gods, he replied, "How could we make images of Him (God Almighty) when we know that He is not like a man, He is not like a monkey, or an elephant or a snake: He is not like anything we can think of or imagine. He is a pure and Holy Spirit."

LIKE THE ARABS

This term, uMVELINQANGI, though well known to the Zulus, was not commonly used. Again they were like the pagan Qureish of Pre-Islamic Arabia who knew the name Allah, but passed Him by, because they felt that He was too High, too Pure, too Holy to be approached, so they went for their substitutary and imaginary gods - their Al- Lats, AI-Uzzas and Al-Manats and a hundred besides. The Zulus too would not call upon uMvelinqangi directly, but he was better than the Arab of the Ayyam-ul-jahiliyya (days of ignorance), because he did not go after false gods; he only invoked the spirits of his ancestors to intercede with uMvelinqangi on his behalf, exactly as the Catholics do in invoking the Virgin Mary and the Saints.

The more common term used by the Zulus for their God is uNKULUNKULU which literally means - the Greatest of the Great or the Mightiest of the Mighty (Almighty). More colloquially when taking oath, they would exclaim "iNkosi phe-Zulu" meaning - the Lord Above (knows), or the God in Heaven (knows), or Heaven knows, that I am speaking the truth. The word "zulu" in the language of the Zulu literally means High Heaven, and they consider themselves to be superior to the numerous other tribes of Southern Africa, being in this respect like the Querish among the dwellers of the desert before Islam.

CONCEPT FROM THE EAST

The Hindi word for God Almighty is PRAMATMA. In Sanskrit, the language of ancient India, "Atma" meant the soul, and"Pram-atma" meant the Great and Holy Soul, or the Holy Spirit, which is really a beautiful description of the "Father" in Heaven. The Bible says, "God is Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). Not in form, shape or size, but in SPIRIT.

Despite his pantheistic* interpretation of the Divinity, the name the Hindu gives the Supreme Being, in his classical language, is OM (Aum), which means Guardian or Protector. A very suitable attribute about which the Muslim can have no misgivings.

* "Pantheism:" a doctrine in which people believe that God is everything, and everything is God. The Muslim puts the right emphasis when he says - "EVERYTHING IS GOD'S!" Do you realise the stupendous difference this apostrophe 's makes to the concept of God?

CONCEPT FROM THE WEST FROM THE WEST

The Anglo/Saxon and the Teuton in their own and other allied European languages call their object of worship "GOD" or words of similar sound and import, i.e.

God in English;
Got in Afrikaans (the language of the descendants of the Dutch from Holland in South Africa);
Gott in German; and
Gudd in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian languages.

The ancient Phoenicians called their God - ALLON - (not far from Allah if we could only hear it articulated), and the Canaanites - ADO. The Israelites not only shared the word EL with the original people of Palestine, but borrowed the name of their chief deity - ADO and turned it into ADONAI, and everywhere the four-letter word YHWH occured in their Holy Scriptures, they read "Adonai" instead of "Yahuwa." You will not fail to notice the resemblance between the Jewish Adonai and the heathen Adonis. ADONIS was a "beautiful godling loved by Venus" in the Greek pantheon.

THE LATIN CONCEPT

In the Latin-dominated languages of Western Europe, where Latin had remained dominant in learning and diplomacy for centuries, the chief term used for God is DEUS:

Deus in Portuguese;
Dieu in French;
Dio in Italian;
Dies in Spanish;
Dia in Scotch and Irish; and
Duw in Welsh.

Surprisingly in all the languages above, Deus and all the similar sounding words mean heaven.

Moulana Vidyarthi, in his monumental work - "Muhammad in World Scriptures," devotes a hundred pages to the names of God in the different languages. And out of a list of 155 attributive names, over 40 of them use the word "Heaven" or the "Above," in their language in describing God. Though the Muslim chants the Asma-ul-husna (the most beautiful names), 99 as derived from the Holy Qur'an with the crowning name, ALLAH; "Heaven" is not one of those ninety-nine attributes. Symbolically, heaven may be described as the abode of God, and in the words of Wordsworth in Tintern Abbey:

WHOSE DWELLING IS THE LIGHT OF SETTING SUNS, AND THE ROUND OCEAN AND THE LIVING AIR, AND IN THE BLUE SKY, AND IN THE MIND OF MAN: A MOTION AND A SPIRIT THAT IMPELS ALL THINKING THINGS, ALL OBJECTS OF ALL THOUGHTS, AND ROLLS THROUGH ALL THINGS.


CONCEPT FROM BEYOND THE FAR EAST

Among all the 155 tantalising names of God in the various tongues, the one that tickled me most was - "A-T-N-A-T-U!"

WHAT IS SO FUNNY OR SO NOVEL ABOUT ATNATU?

The aborgine of South Australia calls his God "Atnatu" because some philosopher, poet or prophet had programmed him, that the Father in Heaven is absolutely free from all needs; He is independant; He needs no food nor drink. This quality, in his primitive, un-inhibited language, he conversely named ATNATU, which literally meant "the One without an anus - the One without any flaw" - i.e. the One from Whom no impurity flows or emanates. When I started sharing this novel idea with Hindu, Muslim and Christian friends, without exception, their immediate reaction was one of mirth, they giggled and laughed. Most of them not realising that the joke was on them. The boot was on the other foot. Though the word "anus" is a very small word, only four letters in English, most people have not heard it. One is forced to use the colloquial substitute which I hesitate to reproduce here, nor will I use the same in public meetings because of people's hypersensitivity - because in the words of Abdullah Yusuf All, people "HAD PERVERTED THEIR LANGUAGE ONCE BEAUTIFUL, INTO JARGONS OF EMPTY ELEGANCE AND UNMEANING FUTILITY."

Therefore to ease the situation, in a round-about-way let us say that where you have an "input," you must allow for an "output." The one who eats, must have the call of nature - the toilet or the bush - and our primitive friend smelt the need, which he could never attribute to his Creator. Therefore, he called his God - ATNATU! 'The one without the excretory system or its tail end.

GOD EATS NOT!

This novel concept of God by primitive man, is not really altogether novel. God Almighty conveys the same truth to mankind, as in His Last and Final Revelation - The Holy Qur'an - but in a language so noble, so sublime, as befitting its Author. But because of its very finesse, and refined manner of expression we have overlooked the Message. We are commanded to say to all those who wish to wean us from the worship of the One True God -

SAY: "SHALL I TAKE FOR MY PROTECTOR ANY BUT ALLAH
THE ORIGINATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH?

WHEN IT IS HE WHO FEEDS BUT HAS NO NEED TO BE FED." - Qur'an, Surah An'am 6:14

In other words, we are made to declare that - "WE WILL NOT TAKE ANYONE AS OUR LORD AND PROTECTOR, OTHER THAN ALLAH (Lit. - The One God), WHO IS THE WONDERFUL ORIGINATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.".

 

[Mahir Adnan]

https://justislam.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/is-allah-good-pure-loving-and-fair/

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR][TD]Is Allah good, pure, loving and fair? | Just-islam
Is Allah good, pure, loving and fair? If so, then where does evil, hatred and injustice come from? Allah tells us He is Pure, Loving, and absolutely Just in every respect. He says He is the Best of Judges. He also tells us the life we are in here is a test. He has created…...[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

 

[azc]

Most Muslims are poor with the exception of Gulf arabsWhen was I ever blaming them? All I did was state that with the amount of wrongdoings the Arabs are doing Allah keeps giving them more. If helping oneself and free will lead to prosperity, most of the poverty in the world would diminish. Of course we can blame god, he is helping them and not us.Tell me this who works harder the labor working all day in heat of the desert or the sheikh who owns the building.I dont blame the elites for this actually, they are doing it because it serves their interest, why should they be on the look out for us. The "nafsi Nafsi" ethos applies here.Not angry just upset for getting the short end of the stick.

https://whatisquran.com/273-look-at-the-people-beneath-you-in-wealth-and-worldly-affairs.html

 

[rebelutionary]

“And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghoot (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghoot besides Allah)” [an-Nahl 16:36].

Hence it is part of the justice of Allah that He has decreed that He will not punish anyone whom the call of the Prophets and Messengers did not reach, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):“And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)” [al-Isra’ 17:15]

“This is because your Lord would not destroy the (populations of) towns for their wrongdoing (i.e. associating others in worship along with Allah) while their people were unaware (so the Messengers were sent)” [al-An ‘am 6:131].

But Allah has not told us the stories of all the Messengers; rather He has only told us the stories of some of them. He has not told us the stories of most of them, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):“And Messengers We have mentioned to you before, and Messengers We have not mentioned to you” [an-Nisa’ 4:164].

Based on that, the idea that the Prophets were only sent to one region of the world is not correct; rather Allah sent Messengers to all the nations of the earth.

I suggest you read this thread here before you try exercising your uneducated opinion on this matter:

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE OWNER OF THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT

The Concept of God
​

For most of us, we presuppose a premise that God is above any need or want - and hold fast to this idea as a firm base for belief.

However, we as a species are diverse and have many languages. And with prejudice, we often build up barriers which stop us from learning about each others true theology.

We may find we have more in common than not.

One of the main factors I see prop up on forums is the idea that if a God is of a different name - it is a different God. If the theology is different, then yes - it's a different god that is worshipped.

But in most cases I have found that people of the world, even parts where Islam may never have reached, have had held onto the idea that God is 1 and is above need and want - is the creator of all. And this alludes to the possibility of prophets who may have visited these people in an ancient past undocumented.

As wondrous as this is, we find ourselves arguing and debating idiots with agendas on forums without giving eachother much of a chance to actually share something amazing which can make us all really take a step back in wonderment and appreciate God in all His magnificence as much as we humanly can.

yes, we still find the odd person who will say "Your God is different to my god because the names are different".

I don't believe it matters, as long as we are referring to the same God - the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, Everything - we should aim to call him by the best of names.

It's quite fascinating to learn that even the jungle cultures of this world have remarkable similarities to the Monotheistic concept of God, and how the concept relates directly to the rendering of the spoken name of God.

THE ZULU CONCEPT

In South Africa, the Zulus, a very virile and militant people - a nation akin to the Qureish of pre- Islamic Arabia - have given a name to God Almighty - uMVELINQANGI. This word when properly articulated in its own dialect, sounds identical to the Arabic words Walla-hu-gani, meaning - "And Allah is Rich" (Bounteous). It also sounds like "Allegany" of the Red Indians of North America (Remember their ALLEGANY mountain). The origin or real meaning of the word "Allegany," is not commonly known to the American people. But ask any Zulu as to who or what this uMvelinqangi is and he will surely explain to you in Zulu:

"HAWU UMNIMZANI! UYENA, UMOYA OINGCWELE. AKAZALI YENA, FUTHI AKAZALWANGA; FUTHI, AKUKHO LUTMO OLU FANA NAYE."

Believe me, this is almost a word for word translation of Sura Ikhlas, Chapter 112 of the Holy Qur'an.

SAY: HE IS ALLAH THE ONE AND ONLY;

ALLAH, THE ETERNAL ABSOLUTE;

HE BEGETTETH NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN:

AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM. - Holy Qur'an 112:1-4

Now, compare the above verses with my free translation of what the Zulu actually said:

"Oh Sir! He is a pure and Holy Spirit, He does not beget and He is not begotten, and further there is nothing like Him."

Every African tribe, South of the Zambesi River, that is, in Southern Africa, have given different names to the Almighty - Tixo, Modimo, uNkulunkulu, etc., and each and every African language group will take pains to explain the same pure and holy concept as the Zulu. It is to the glory of the African nations that though they had no written languages, and hence no written records, therefore not being able to recount the names of their respective prophets, yet not a single one of the tribes ever stooped down to worshipping idols or images of either of men or animals, until the White man first introduced his religion and gave the African his anthropomorphic concept of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, and brought the African down to bowing before the statues of Jesus, Mary, St. Joseph, St. Christopher and so on.

Out of the dozens of African tribes inhabiting this part of the world, not a single one of them ever made "umfanegisos"(images) of their God. Yet they were capable of carving out of wood, elephants and lions, and reproducing men and women also, in clay. Besides, the Zulus also had some knowledge of metallurgy. When questioned an old Zulu as to the reason, why the Africans did not make umfanegisos of their Gods, he replied, "How could we make images of Him (God Almighty) when we know that He is not like a man, He is not like a monkey, or an elephant or a snake: He is not like anything we can think of or imagine. He is a pure and Holy Spirit."

LIKE THE ARABS

This term, uMVELINQANGI, though well known to the Zulus, was not commonly used. Again they were like the pagan Qureish of Pre-Islamic Arabia who knew the name Allah, but passed Him by, because they felt that He was too High, too Pure, too Holy to be approached, so they went for their substitutary and imaginary gods - their Al- Lats, AI-Uzzas and Al-Manats and a hundred besides. The Zulus too would not call upon uMvelinqangi directly, but he was better than the Arab of the Ayyam-ul-jahiliyya (days of ignorance), because he did not go after false gods; he only invoked the spirits of his ancestors to intercede with uMvelinqangi on his behalf, exactly as the Catholics do in invoking the Virgin Mary and the Saints.

The more common term used by the Zulus for their God is uNKULUNKULU which literally means - the Greatest of the Great or the Mightiest of the Mighty (Almighty). More colloquially when taking oath, they would exclaim "iNkosi phe-Zulu" meaning - the Lord Above (knows), or the God in Heaven (knows), or Heaven knows, that I am speaking the truth. The word "zulu" in the language of the Zulu literally means High Heaven, and they consider themselves to be superior to the numerous other tribes of Southern Africa, being in this respect like the Querish among the dwellers of the desert before Islam.

CONCEPT FROM THE EAST

The Hindi word for God Almighty is PRAMATMA. In Sanskrit, the language of ancient India, "Atma" meant the soul, and"Pram-atma" meant the Great and Holy Soul, or the Holy Spirit, which is really a beautiful description of the "Father" in Heaven. The Bible says, "God is Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). Not in form, shape or size, but in SPIRIT.

Despite his pantheistic* interpretation of the Divinity, the name the Hindu gives the Supreme Being, in his classical language, is OM (Aum), which means Guardian or Protector. A very suitable attribute about which the Muslim can have no misgivings.

* "Pantheism:" a doctrine in which people believe that God is everything, and everything is God. The Muslim puts the right emphasis when he says - "EVERYTHING IS GOD'S!" Do you realise the stupendous difference this apostrophe 's makes to the concept of God?

CONCEPT FROM THE WEST FROM THE WEST

The Anglo/Saxon and the Teuton in their own and other allied European languages call their object of worship "GOD" or words of similar sound and import, i.e.

God in English;
Got in Afrikaans (the language of the descendants of the Dutch from Holland in South Africa);
Gott in German; and
Gudd in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian languages.

The ancient Phoenicians called their God - ALLON - (not far from Allah if we could only hear it articulated), and the Canaanites - ADO. The Israelites not only shared the word EL with the original people of Palestine, but borrowed the name of their chief deity - ADO and turned it into ADONAI, and everywhere the four-letter word YHWH occured in their Holy Scriptures, they read "Adonai" instead of "Yahuwa." You will not fail to notice the resemblance between the Jewish Adonai and the heathen Adonis. ADONIS was a "beautiful godling loved by Venus" in the Greek pantheon.

THE LATIN CONCEPT

In the Latin-dominated languages of Western Europe, where Latin had remained dominant in learning and diplomacy for centuries, the chief term used for God is DEUS:

Deus in Portuguese;
Dieu in French;
Dio in Italian;
Dies in Spanish;
Dia in Scotch and Irish; and
Duw in Welsh.

Surprisingly in all the languages above, Deus and all the similar sounding words mean heaven.

Moulana Vidyarthi, in his monumental work - "Muhammad in World Scriptures," devotes a hundred pages to the names of God in the different languages. And out of a list of 155 attributive names, over 40 of them use the word "Heaven" or the "Above," in their language in describing God. Though the Muslim chants the Asma-ul-husna (the most beautiful names), 99 as derived from the Holy Qur'an with the crowning name, ALLAH; "Heaven" is not one of those ninety-nine attributes. Symbolically, heaven may be described as the abode of God, and in the words of Wordsworth in Tintern Abbey:

WHOSE DWELLING IS THE LIGHT OF SETTING SUNS, AND THE ROUND OCEAN AND THE LIVING AIR, AND IN THE BLUE SKY, AND IN THE MIND OF MAN: A MOTION AND A SPIRIT THAT IMPELS ALL THINKING THINGS, ALL OBJECTS OF ALL THOUGHTS, AND ROLLS THROUGH ALL THINGS.


CONCEPT FROM BEYOND THE FAR EAST

Among all the 155 tantalising names of God in the various tongues, the one that tickled me most was - "A-T-N-A-T-U!"

WHAT IS SO FUNNY OR SO NOVEL ABOUT ATNATU?

The aborgine of South Australia calls his God "Atnatu" because some philosopher, poet or prophet had programmed him, that the Father in Heaven is absolutely free from all needs; He is independant; He needs no food nor drink. This quality, in his primitive, un-inhibited language, he conversely named ATNATU, which literally meant "the One without an anus - the One without any flaw" - i.e. the One from Whom no impurity flows or emanates. When I started sharing this novel idea with Hindu, Muslim and Christian friends, without exception, their immediate reaction was one of mirth, they giggled and laughed. Most of them not realising that the joke was on them. The boot was on the other foot. Though the word "anus" is a very small word, only four letters in English, most people have not heard it. One is forced to use the colloquial substitute which I hesitate to reproduce here, nor will I use the same in public meetings because of people's hypersensitivity - because in the words of Abdullah Yusuf All, people "HAD PERVERTED THEIR LANGUAGE ONCE BEAUTIFUL, INTO JARGONS OF EMPTY ELEGANCE AND UNMEANING FUTILITY."

Therefore to ease the situation, in a round-about-way let us say that where you have an "input," you must allow for an "output." The one who eats, must have the call of nature - the toilet or the bush - and our primitive friend smelt the need, which he could never attribute to his Creator. Therefore, he called his God - ATNATU! 'The one without the excretory system or its tail end.

GOD EATS NOT!

This novel concept of God by primitive man, is not really altogether novel. God Almighty conveys the same truth to mankind, as in His Last and Final Revelation - The Holy Qur'an - but in a language so noble, so sublime, as befitting its Author. But because of its very finesse, and refined manner of expression we have overlooked the Message. We are commanded to say to all those who wish to wean us from the worship of the One True God -

SAY: "SHALL I TAKE FOR MY PROTECTOR ANY BUT ALLAH
THE ORIGINATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH?

WHEN IT IS HE WHO FEEDS BUT HAS NO NEED TO BE FED." - Qur'an, Surah An'am 6:14

In other words, we are made to declare that - "WE WILL NOT TAKE ANYONE AS OUR LORD AND PROTECTOR, OTHER THAN ALLAH (Lit. - The One God), WHO IS THE WONDERFUL ORIGINATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.".

Thank you for that elaborative speech o educated one. The moot point of the thread was pertaining to the fairness of god not the concept of god.


As I have mentioned in another thread I am a muslim in the sense that I believe in Allah and that Mohammad (pbuh) is his last messenger. The thread took a tangent when I asked if Islam is the last message and for all of humanity and 124,000 prophets couldn't some non middle eastern prophets and stories be mentioned so that non middle easterns like me could connect better to it.

I am not from the blood lineage of Ibrahim. So it gets to me that all the greatest prophets (uh lul azam) mentioned were all sent to the middle east.


I questioned the fairness of god because of my personal life events I never asked Allah for a place or the riches of the earth, I questioned his fairness because the amount of effort I have to put in to get something done is far greater than the effort the average joe has to put in to get it.

I was conned by someone I used to consider a very good friend as that friend used to pray regularly was very Islamic minded and I on the other hand wasnt as Islamic as him i.e praying regularly but I have never conned anyone yet Allah keeps giving him more and more, hence my question about his fairness.


Lets get real here, I have to borrow funds on riba to get going which automatically puts me at a disadvantage as opposed to someone who doesn't have to borrow using riba as he or she has an economic resource access advantage.


[FONT=&quot]([/FONT][FONT=&quot]O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains (due to you) of interest, if you should be believers. And if you do not, then be informed of a war (against you) from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal – (thus) you do no wrong, nor are you wronged.[/FONT][FONT=&quot])

[/FONT]Basically I am already at war just for trying to get around.


So tell me o educated one where is the fairness?

 

[Scimitar]

Thank you for that elaborative speech o educated one. The moot point of the thread was pertaining to the fairness of god not the concept of god.

The question i replied to - your question - was also not on topic... irony abounds does it not?

As I have mentioned in another thread I am a muslim in the sense that I believe in Allah and that Mohammad (pbuh) is his last messenger.

So you have the seed of faith... make it "grow"

The thread took a tangent when I asked if Islam is the last message and for all of humanity and 124,000 prophets couldn't some non middle eastern prophets and stories be mentioned so that non middle easterns like me could connect better to it.

As I mentioned, you took it the thread off-topic, not me I simply entertained your question.

I am not from the blood lineage of Ibrahim.

Neither am I. So what?

So it gets to me that all the greatest prophets (uh lul azam) mentioned were all sent to the middle east.

The absence of proof does not necessarily result in a proof of absence. Just because you haven't found any traces in history that monotheism was a theme in previous times and places - doesn't mean that monotheism didn't exist in those times and places. I answered you and proved to you that the theme of monotheism was prevalent in other times (history) and places - but you are still singing your broken record! How very interesting

I questioned the fairness of god because of my personal life events I never asked Allah for a place or the riches of the earth, I questioned his fairness because the amount of effort I have to put in to get something done is far greater than the effort the average joe has to put in to get it.

And so will the reward be for your effort! Must you entertain little faith? Did you not know that Allah said this to us:

'Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?' Qur'an 29:2

I was conned by someone I used to consider a very good friend as that friend used to pray regularly was very Islamic minded and I on the other hand wasnt as Islamic as him i.e praying regularly but I have never conned anyone yet Allah keeps giving him more and more, hence my question about his fairness.

You described an hypocrite. They do exist better trust less and wise up more. Tricked once, shame on you - tricked twice, shame on me, as the saying goes

Lets get real here, I have to borrow funds on riba to get going which automatically puts me at a disadvantage as opposed to someone who doesn't have to borrow using riba as he or she has an economic resource access advantage.

My brother, If you have no choice then you cannot be blamed for what you are cornered to do. Islam is the rational middle way - no blame on you for being forced to do something to ensure your survival. A Muslim can even eat pork if his life is in danger of dying from hunger, after all.

(O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains (due to you) of interest, if you should be believers. And if you do not, then be informed of a war (against you) from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal – (thus) you do no wrong, nor are you wronged.

You quoted Qur'an 2:278-9... keep going, don't stop there:

And if someone is in hardship, then [let there be] postponement until [a time of] ease. But if you give [from your right as] charity, then it is better for you, if you only knew. Qur'an 2:230 I recommend you study the tafsir of what I have underlined!

I also recommend that you take it easy on your self. Islam is not a burden on you - but a relief!!!

Basically I am already at war just for trying to get around.

No, you are just (rightfully) emotional, and this is understandable.

So tell me o educated one where is the fairness?

Away from your perspective - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist - you are the one denying it... accept it and you will see that your perspective has changed. And when that happens, you have witnessed change!

Peace!

 

[eesa the kiwi]

You're ignoring the millions of blessings Allah has bestowed upon you to focus on the few things you don't have

What about your eyesight? When was the last time you thanked Allah for your eyes
What about your hearing or the fact you aren't in a wheelchair? When was the last time you thanked Allah for those

Allah has blessed you with so much and then you have the cheek to whine about him

You are the one not being fair

 

[BurningHeart]

Sigh, There is not a need to write a lot if your concept of Islam just revolves around this worldly realm, not looking towards the day of judgement. Nevertheless, it seems you have some issues with Gulf Shaykhs getting petrodollars easily while they are enjoying their lives. If you truly have Imaan down to your heart, then please do study the tafseer of these verses. فَلَمَّا نَسُوا مَا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ فَتَحْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ أَبْوَابَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا فَرِحُوا بِمَا أُوتُوا أَخَذْنَاهُم بَغْتَةً فَإِذَا هُم مُّبْلِسُونَ - 6:44“So, when they forgot (the warning) with which they had been reminded, We opened for them the gates of every (pleasant) thing, until in the midst of their enjoyment in that which they were given, all of a sudden, We took them (in punishment), and lo! They were plunged into destruction with deep regrets and sorrows” [al-An’aam 6:44].وَلَا تَحْسَبَنَّ اللَّهَ غَافِلًا عَمَّا يَعْمَلُ الظَّالِمُونَ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُؤَخِّرُهُمْ لِيَوْمٍ تَشْخَصُ فِيهِ الْأَبْصَارُ - 14:42“Consider not that Allaah is unaware of that which the Zâlimûn (polytheists, wrongdoers) do, but He gives them respite up to a Day when the eyes will stare in horror”If you are truly lazy or reluctant to look on the tafseer, then please do ask mufti google about 'what does Islam says regarding Istidraj (respite).' InshaAllah you will find beautiful, amazing, lovely and charming articles to fulfil your question. p.s There are some few more loop holes in your arguments, but lets leave it here for now.

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Sorry but can the mods please format the above post. Not sure how it all crammed up together when I ensured it was written in paragraphs.

 

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

Do you know of anyone who has a lot less than you??