fate/destiny vs free choice

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- Qatada - said:
:salamext:


The fact that the Qur'an and Sunnah both explain that Allah knows, yet at the same time they explain that you have a freedom of choice - then you have to accept both and strive to do good in order to get good.

Imagine, if you never revise for a test - you'll never pass. So the same way, if you never do good - you'll never fulfill the conditions to enter Paradise.
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OK I think we are addressing different questions. As I have just mentioned in my reply to brother Umar, I am not questioning why we need to do good. I am not advocating doing evil and blaming it on fate and predestination. I can vaguely remember the story of the camel, where one Sahabee came to Ali (RA) and complained that he had lost his camel in the desert. When questioned further, the Sahabee confessed that he did not tether the camel when he slept, and the camel wandered off. He put his trust in Allah. Ali (RA) advised that first you tie your camel, then put your trust in Allah! {I apologise if this is an incorrect narration, or not authentic - I heard it when I was fairly young}

If I may use your analogy above:

I was the only person responsible for teaching you in class. At the end of the year, I write the test you describe above. You do not revise - and you fail. That is your fault, and you deserve to fail.

Now lets say you do revise for the test. You work very hard and revise everything I told you to. When you sit the test, you find you can't answer the questions. Now I fail you.

You protest that this is unfair. You worked hard and revised for the test. Unfortunately I wrote a test paper that I KNEW you would fail. Even before you sat the test, I knew you would fail. Is this fair and just?
 
A questioner is asking: Why did Allaah create mankind when He knows what their destiny will be, in Paradise or Hell?
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/123973

Allaah does not admit people to Paradise or Hell simply because He knows that they deserve that, rather He will admit them to Paradise or Hell on the basis of the deeds that they actually did in this world. If Allaah created mankind and put them in His Hell, they would soon argue that He did not test them or give them the chance to strive. Allaah wanted to refute this argument, so He created them in this world and gave them reason, and revealed His Books, and sent His Messengers; all of that is so that they will have no argument against Allaah on the Day of Resurrection.
 
Man has free will and choice by means of which he does some things and refrains from others, and he believes or disbelieves, and he obeys or disobeys, for which he will be brought to account and rewarded or punished, although Allaah knows what he will do, what he will choose and what his ultimate destiny will be. But Allaah does not compel him to do evil, or to choose kufr, rather He clearly shows him the path and He has sent Messengers and revealed Books, and shown him the right way. Whoever goes astray does so to his own loss,.
 
Allah wants to see how much bad and good we do and then judge us on it,please ask if you didn't understand.
 
You should understand, may Allaah bless you, that some people have been misguided with regard to the issue of al-qadar (the divine will and decree), because they think that if Allaah decrees that an action should happen, that means that He likes that thing, and this leads them to think that evil actions happen outside of the will of Allaah. Thus they attribute weakness and incapability to Allaah, when they say that nothing happens in His dominion that He does not want, and so He may will a thing and it does not happen – exalted be Allaah far above what they say. In fact there is no connection between what Allaah loves and wants in terms what is permissible and not permissible, and what He wills and decrees should happen in the universe. This may be explained further as follows:
so u better understand read this
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/49013
 
I think thats enough links and explaining until he asks us to expand on our explaining,deal?
 
Umar^111 said:
Man has free will and choice by means of which he does some things and refrains from others, and he believes or disbelieves, and he obeys or disobeys, for which he will be brought to account and rewarded or punished, although Allaah knows what he will do, what he will choose and what his ultimate destiny will be. But Allaah does not compel him to do evil, or to choose kufr, rather He clearly shows him the path and He has sent Messengers and revealed Books, and shown him the right way. Whoever goes astray does so to his own loss,.
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OK I think I need to stop asking now! Either I have a limited intelligence and hence unable to understand, or somebody will point out that Shai'tan is playing with my mind. I simply do not see with obvious clarity and ease that you describe. In fact your explanation above makes things even more confusing... Man now does have free choice and will - BUT - Allah knows that he will do it, what he will choose and what his ultimate destiny will be.

I asked these questions a few years ago. I spoke to several Scholars (whom I trust and have known for years). The ultimate advice was that I shouldn't ask so many questions, and think too deeply about fate and predestination. One scholar even suggested that this is an area of blind faith, and humans do not have the capacity to understand. Unfortunately I followed the advice and chose to ignore my inner doubts.

Alas these questions remain in my simple head. Even reading some of the links that members of the forum have directed me to all state that belief in Al-Qadr is fundamental to Imaan. I find it difficult to understand why such an important principle would be made to be so difficult to understand. Islam is a religion and way of life for the whole of humanity - not just for the intellectually elite, nor just for the blind followers....
 
Our knowledge is limited in ways that God's knowledge is not. It is our very lack of knowledge which gives us free will. We cannot know our future and to a large extent we cannot control it. Our decisions are based on our understanding of the way the world works.
From an Islamic point of view, Man is free for all practical purposes. He/she has no excuse for making the wrong choice and then blaming qadar or fate, any more than a man punching his fist into a wall can blame the laws of nature. He knew the consequences of his actions for all practical purposes and he shouldn't expect a miracle!

The foregoing means, that we should not worry about what God has written for us, since we can never know it; but our duty, here and now, is to strive for the best in this world and the next. Then, good results will follow, insha’Allah.
And Allah knows best.
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet...sh-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE
 
My fav part is The foregoing means, that we should not worry about what God has written for us, since we can never know it; but our duty, here and now, is to strive for the best in this world and the next. Then, good results will follow, insha’Allah.(If Allah willed)
 
Having just joined the forum, and re-read the Guidelines, I am aware that I am asking a lot of questions around the same theme. I am also aware that this is a sensitive topic, and do not wish to antagonise anyone. I am not here to convince anyone about anything, but for very selfish reasons. My Imaan is falling to such a level that I have to do something about it. I know that I can't simply ignore my doubts, or pray them away. The guidelines also ask to refrain from asking questions that should be directed to scholars. Being new, it is very difficult to gage the scholarly knowledge of the group. I personally have been impressed with the level of knowledge in the forums, but do not want to push too much.

I do appreciate the advice that has been sincerely provided, and thank you all for helping with my enquiries.
 
The choices are ours but Allah know what we would have chosen we dont so this is to show ur self Allah could have said ok this guy goes to hell and this ppl will go to heaven He already knows what we will do but then people can say God is not just He didnt test me but Allah is the most Just that He Allowed you to see what your hands did and what you are really like yet he knows but guess what you dont so work hard to pls Allah if you dont pray Allah knows you arent going to pray but it is your chose same for everything else it is your chose and Allah knows what your chose is you dont
 
Here is a short list of things you can do to control your iman from falling rapidly:
-Pray to Allah
-Dikr to Allah
-Do nafil prayers
-give charity
-Stop doing sins and repent to Allah.
 
you cant change what is.


so live believing and stay away from that which causes doubt.



seriously, the advice above makes perfect sense to me, and i wish someone coulda told me this when i looked into stuff like Qadr.


Assalamu Alaikum
 
Asalamualaikum w.w.

I can understand how frustrating this must be and it is easily something which can mislead one.
However Islam is complete... this destiny question is only a part of the knowledge we are required to believe in and by no means is it the only important area which we need to believe in esp. at the expense of other areas. Islam is about striking a balance and here also it is important to achieve that.

The basic requirement is that we accept it- whether or not we understand it with our (sometimes faulty) logic. The reason we are told not to ask deep questions are for our own good...we sometimes do not have the capacity to understand certain issues.
It is accepting this lack of capacity and acknowledging that it is Allah swt alone who is Perfect and that we are are sinful and prone to err...

but with our sins and faults we submit to Him.......inshallah this is where the Pleasure of Allah and the ultimate succes lies.

What helps me is trying to learn about Allahs attributes..and what that quality means to me.
He is the Most Merciful , the Most compassionate, He is the Most Kind ,the Most Loving the Most Forgiving the Most Just.
I hope you can really deeply try to understand and feel what these beautiful qualities (and all 99 names of Allah) are.

-sorry to put it like this- it appears in your post ,which is probably unintentional...theres an accusation against Allah swt of being cruel ... and with this in mind being put into ever lasting fire, pain and torment without a choice is undoubtly cruel and mean by anyones standards.

If you know Allah swt you will know that is impossible...He is Independent so He can do that if He wishes but He has let His Mercy overcome His Wrath.

Inshallah when you come closer to recognising Allah swt for who He really is...you will see there is no other way, no other will ,no other choice which is more perfect.
There are great pious people who's iman was at such a level that they understood and accepted this and have mentioned that if Allah swt put them in hell they will be happy there because it is His will.
we may not be able to accept it but at least if we can understand that if He wills that we must end up in the fire... then that is the most just and perfect decision.


If you start with just 2 attributes ,brother...the ones which are so beloved to Allah swt that He has put them at the beginning of every surah, ie before giving us any advice, to help us keep in mind that He is...'Ar rahman and Ar raheem' The Most Compassionate and The Most Merciful. Its not just a coincidence!
one more thing i read somewhere....Allah swt treats His servant according to what the servant expects Allah swt to be. So keeping good hopes from Allah swt will be a positive thing Inshallah.

Hope this has been of help.
Wasalam
 
witness said:
Asalamualaikum w.w.


-sorry to put it like this- it appears in your post ,which is probably unintentional...theres an accusation against Allah swt of being cruel ... and with this in mind being put into ever lasting fire, pain and torment without a choice is undoubtly cruel and mean by anyones standards.

Wasalam
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:w:


JK Sister for this explanation. Whilst elements of the reply still concern me, I really do appreciate the thought and sincerity that you put into the reply. I have been touched by the warm reception I have received on this forum, and the help people have offered in answering my various questions. However, I was at the point of giving up out of sheer frustration. I have not been able to articulate my concerns very well, and hence this has lead to confusion. In turn, the replies to my questions have missed the essence, and point of my enquiries.

Yes you have picked up where my thought process is leading me when you mentioned:

"-sorry to put it like this- it appears in your post ,which is probably unintentional...theres an accusation against Allah swt of being cruel ... and with this in mind being put into ever lasting fire, pain and torment without a choice is undoubtly cruel and mean by anyones standards."

I do not want to verbalise that thought. Whilst my Imaan is incredibly low, I fear the thought of apostasy. However, I also fear that if I do not resolve my doubts, I may be a Muslim by name only. Kidding myself into a belief, or ignoring my thoughts is not a healthy place to be.

In the Quraan, Allah constantly challenges us to think and ponder. Likewise, when the Message was propagated to the pagan community, the Prophet (PBUH) challenged their current thought and belief. I struggle to understand how then, we can decide when to think/ponder, and when to simply accept-particularly when it comes to fundamentals of faith.

I read your reply (and the previous explanations from others) and see contradictions. This can be explained by my wavering faith. You do not see any contradictions in your explanation - no doubt due to your strong faith.

I guess asking for further clarification is futile, because the advice will always be to strengthen my faith – rather than resolve the doubts that lead to my lack of faith….
 
absuk said:
Thank you Qatada for the clarification. To make sure I understand you correctly:

Allah knows exactly what I will do, when I will sin, how I will sin.

I have to believe in fate and predestination in order to be obedient and successful in the hereafter.

So I strive to be obedient. However, despite my attempts, I comitt sins - which Allah has already written for me to comitt. Why then punish me for eternity? That is the bit I don't understand.
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:sl:

InshAllah I will try to make a simple statement that will inshAllah have some affect.
If Allah SWT willed that only ONE person will enter paradise, Strive your utmost best, with all your might and power to BE that ONE person.
 

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