A(SMILE ITS ME)
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salaam,
seem to find chat rooms empty?
seem to find chat rooms empty?
Feedback on the Chatrooms
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Bismillah Alrahman Alrahim
Alhamdulilahi wa eaudhu bilahi min shaytan Alrajeem.
Far7an told me to post here to ask for discussion on the development of the Chatroom Policy to avoid Biddah and to be based upon the Quran and Ahadith and the islamic sciences.
Basically my concern was this. A chat board is nothing more nor less than a real-time message board. The only difference between the "Chat-rooms" and the message boards is that the post and refresh rate is virtually instant.
We all know that the discussion forums have become a great place for us to share knowledge. Sometimes Brothers have increased the knowledge of the sisters other times sisters have contributed to the increas of knowledge among the brothers. There can be no doubt that these message boards have great benefit for one of the fundamental principles in islamic science which is to seek knowledge (even if it be in China).
Of course there are also message board threads which have led to heated discussions. It is an advantage in non-instantaneaous message posting that each poster has time to reflect upon what the others are trying to say and not react too quickly or rashly/emmotionally to the content, but appraise intelligently what the other's are trying to say. In an instantaneous message board the temptation is increased to respond quickly without proper consideration on what the others are saying. Of course this rash emmotional response increases the possibility of causing division among those in dialogue, but it is because time is sped up that leads to this and nothing else (i.e. less time to think).
However, Allah (SWT) has allowed the technology in the world to evolve to the level that it has now not for any vain reason. It is certain that all things that happen are preordained, and there is an evolution of the Human condition, from one level of civilization to the next. These advances in Evolution are due to change in environment, and the ability of humans to keep up with these changes.
There can be no doubt that sometimes the swift exchange of ideas has been invaluable to education and progress, so we can not turn our backs on technology which assists the swift exchange of ideas. Smoke signals gave way to letters which gabve way to emails which have given way to message borards which may very well now give way to Instant Messaging or "Chat" as it is popularly called. We must not allow ourselves to be averse to Instant Messaging because it is called by the majority of English Speakers "Chat" and we know that Idle Chat is not encouraged. The bulk of all letters in the world are also idel or vain in purposue but this does not mean that exchanging letters serves no value.
Obviously with greater technology comes greater resaponsibility to adhere to the Islamic etiquettes that have been passed down. Patience and reticence are two such great virtues. Muslims should try not to speak unless there is something of value to be said, and a muslim should always be clean in speech etc.. But now let me come to the crux of the matter which is disturbing to some. We know that Gender segregation is an important aspect of islamic society. At the same time we know from the Sunnah and Ahadith that interaction between the sexes for business and education also has certain conditions. But for too long laziness has prevented us from looking into those conditions and devising policies that allow for healthy interaction without leading to Fitnah. One such method is writing. Literacy among women in Islam has been greater than men in many lands because they would pass notes and letters from behind doors and veils to communicate. This evolved into the posting of messages on the Message boards like the one I am writing on now. We have to face the reality that the next step is Instant Messaging.
I propose that it is Hypocrisy to suddenly draw a line and say NO to women passing instant messages to men and vice-versa when there is no basis for this either in the Quran nor the Hadith (I am certain, but if I am wrong of course I will humbly surrender my position).
If we seek segregation in the Instant Messaging Discussion Forums, then we will have to do so on all message boards. If we do this then it would be Hypocrisy to allow men to write letters to women, and then we bring into question the legitimacy not only of hundrends of years of Islamic practice but also the Sunnah itself. Clearly the stance in pure razor-sharp logical reasoning is that there can be no line drawn.
However, and this is most important, even though there is no basis to forbid instant messaging betwwn men and women in ISlam, there has always been the requirements of islamic etiquettes with regards to clean speech, avoiding idle chitter chatter and slander etc. But this has been my main problem with Islamic Message Boards for a long time. All too often topics are censored which should not be, while a style of tlak is permitted which is absolutely against islamic culture. The Era of Halal Instant Messageing between Men ans Women is upon us, and can not be avoided. It is happening and will continue to happen. Unless Islamic moderators step up to face the issue and support it along in its infancy, then we will be faced with further decay of Islamic values. Men will disguise themselves with Female User Names and Women Will disguise themselves with Male Usernames in order to gain access into the opposite gender rooms. Idle talk will continue in the gender rooms. Muslim men and women will simply choose non-islamic websites to chat to each other through. And there will be no concern for language content which is what we should be concerned about.
We need to address the issue with Instant Messaging Rooms set up with moderators standing by to suggest to those in dialogue when the discussion topic might be stepping into idle chitter-chatter.
The web-design of the chatrooms has allowed for the Main room to be established. It is no task at all to have created two gender specific rooms in the first place, but this is not the way it was created. The lobby exists and should still exist, for instant messaging on a variety of Topics. As long as the topics are islamic there should be no problem with instant messaging between Brothers and Sisters.
I hope I have made myself clear, and look forward to discussion on this topic.
Assalamu Alaykum wa rahmatullah wa Barakhatahu.
Alhamdulilahi wa eaudhu bilahi min shaytan Alrajeem.
Far7an told me to post here to ask for discussion on the development of the Chatroom Policy to avoid Biddah and to be based upon the Quran and Ahadith and the islamic sciences.
Basically my concern was this. A chat board is nothing more nor less than a real-time message board. The only difference between the "Chat-rooms" and the message boards is that the post and refresh rate is virtually instant.
We all know that the discussion forums have become a great place for us to share knowledge. Sometimes Brothers have increased the knowledge of the sisters other times sisters have contributed to the increas of knowledge among the brothers. There can be no doubt that these message boards have great benefit for one of the fundamental principles in islamic science which is to seek knowledge (even if it be in China).
Of course there are also message board threads which have led to heated discussions. It is an advantage in non-instantaneaous message posting that each poster has time to reflect upon what the others are trying to say and not react too quickly or rashly/emmotionally to the content, but appraise intelligently what the other's are trying to say. In an instantaneous message board the temptation is increased to respond quickly without proper consideration on what the others are saying. Of course this rash emmotional response increases the possibility of causing division among those in dialogue, but it is because time is sped up that leads to this and nothing else (i.e. less time to think).
However, Allah (SWT) has allowed the technology in the world to evolve to the level that it has now not for any vain reason. It is certain that all things that happen are preordained, and there is an evolution of the Human condition, from one level of civilization to the next. These advances in Evolution are due to change in environment, and the ability of humans to keep up with these changes.
There can be no doubt that sometimes the swift exchange of ideas has been invaluable to education and progress, so we can not turn our backs on technology which assists the swift exchange of ideas. Smoke signals gave way to letters which gabve way to emails which have given way to message borards which may very well now give way to Instant Messaging or "Chat" as it is popularly called. We must not allow ourselves to be averse to Instant Messaging because it is called by the majority of English Speakers "Chat" and we know that Idle Chat is not encouraged. The bulk of all letters in the world are also idel or vain in purposue but this does not mean that exchanging letters serves no value.
Obviously with greater technology comes greater resaponsibility to adhere to the Islamic etiquettes that have been passed down. Patience and reticence are two such great virtues. Muslims should try not to speak unless there is something of value to be said, and a muslim should always be clean in speech etc.. But now let me come to the crux of the matter which is disturbing to some. We know that Gender segregation is an important aspect of islamic society. At the same time we know from the Sunnah and Ahadith that interaction between the sexes for business and education also has certain conditions. But for too long laziness has prevented us from looking into those conditions and devising policies that allow for healthy interaction without leading to Fitnah. One such method is writing. Literacy among women in Islam has been greater than men in many lands because they would pass notes and letters from behind doors and veils to communicate. This evolved into the posting of messages on the Message boards like the one I am writing on now. We have to face the reality that the next step is Instant Messaging.
I propose that it is Hypocrisy to suddenly draw a line and say NO to women passing instant messages to men and vice-versa when there is no basis for this either in the Quran nor the Hadith (I am certain, but if I am wrong of course I will humbly surrender my position).
If we seek segregation in the Instant Messaging Discussion Forums, then we will have to do so on all message boards. If we do this then it would be Hypocrisy to allow men to write letters to women, and then we bring into question the legitimacy not only of hundrends of years of Islamic practice but also the Sunnah itself. Clearly the stance in pure razor-sharp logical reasoning is that there can be no line drawn.
However, and this is most important, even though there is no basis to forbid instant messaging betwwn men and women in ISlam, there has always been the requirements of islamic etiquettes with regards to clean speech, avoiding idle chitter chatter and slander etc. But this has been my main problem with Islamic Message Boards for a long time. All too often topics are censored which should not be, while a style of tlak is permitted which is absolutely against islamic culture. The Era of Halal Instant Messageing between Men ans Women is upon us, and can not be avoided. It is happening and will continue to happen. Unless Islamic moderators step up to face the issue and support it along in its infancy, then we will be faced with further decay of Islamic values. Men will disguise themselves with Female User Names and Women Will disguise themselves with Male Usernames in order to gain access into the opposite gender rooms. Idle talk will continue in the gender rooms. Muslim men and women will simply choose non-islamic websites to chat to each other through. And there will be no concern for language content which is what we should be concerned about.
We need to address the issue with Instant Messaging Rooms set up with moderators standing by to suggest to those in dialogue when the discussion topic might be stepping into idle chitter-chatter.
The web-design of the chatrooms has allowed for the Main room to be established. It is no task at all to have created two gender specific rooms in the first place, but this is not the way it was created. The lobby exists and should still exist, for instant messaging on a variety of Topics. As long as the topics are islamic there should be no problem with instant messaging between Brothers and Sisters.
I hope I have made myself clear, and look forward to discussion on this topic.
Assalamu Alaykum wa rahmatullah wa Barakhatahu.
Daffodil
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I went in the chat room today n saw that the brothers and sisters were chatting together. astagfirullah. Im not going to mention any names but those ppl know who they are. They were chatting in the main room. Free mixing is not permissible by any means, u wudnt chat to eachother on the street etc so please refrain from doing so in the chat rooms.
Asalamulaikum
Asalamulaikum
Free-Mixing?!?!?!?
Daffodil,
Considering the content of your post, what in Allah's name do you think you are doing posting a message on this board? Being a Hypocrite? Ok, then I understand. Those sentences are not intended to cause offense, but intended to encourage you to think about prcisely what you are doing. There is no difference at all whatsoever between posting a message on a message board like this one, and posting a message on an instant message board. I have commited no sin Daffodil so why should you "protect" me by neglecting to mention that I was one of those people discussing Jobs in the instant messaging room yesterday? That question is rhetorical (that means I am not really interested in your answer) since your level of understanding in the Din is clear to me already.
Now, can I invite more constructive feedback on the subject from more critically thinking forum users now please?
P.S. this following comment is only for Daffodil and is not inviting any comment from anyone unless it is a mediatory and unbiased arbitration by a faithful and true independent third party. In which case this section should be removed to a mediation area for settling disputes between Forum Users). You were very quick to judge (passing judgement is Allah SWT's domain not ours) and slander us to Labibah who then entered and said "Fear Allah" as if none of us do! I am a Sabi (one who trembles before God), by God we fear Allah (SWT) but we do not fear puffed-up tinpot emperors or any human with man-given authority, neither do we suck up to earthly authorities (your reputation of 399 and power of 2 means nothing -I would rather be despised by mankind and loved by Allah SWT), and the reason there are so few Sabi'un in the world today is because we fear only Allah (SWT) and stand up to such people and their innovations (in this case forbidding open and public written messages between men and women that Allah (SWT) has permitted through the Sunnah of The Prophet SAW copied by the Salaf and detailed in in the Hadith) even if it means facing our deaths. This is our Jihad, and you will not silence us even through our deaths no matter how godless and barbaric you (this is a generic usage not accusative) make them.
Daffodil,
Considering the content of your post, what in Allah's name do you think you are doing posting a message on this board? Being a Hypocrite? Ok, then I understand. Those sentences are not intended to cause offense, but intended to encourage you to think about prcisely what you are doing. There is no difference at all whatsoever between posting a message on a message board like this one, and posting a message on an instant message board. I have commited no sin Daffodil so why should you "protect" me by neglecting to mention that I was one of those people discussing Jobs in the instant messaging room yesterday? That question is rhetorical (that means I am not really interested in your answer) since your level of understanding in the Din is clear to me already.
Now, can I invite more constructive feedback on the subject from more critically thinking forum users now please?
P.S. this following comment is only for Daffodil and is not inviting any comment from anyone unless it is a mediatory and unbiased arbitration by a faithful and true independent third party. In which case this section should be removed to a mediation area for settling disputes between Forum Users). You were very quick to judge (passing judgement is Allah SWT's domain not ours) and slander us to Labibah who then entered and said "Fear Allah" as if none of us do! I am a Sabi (one who trembles before God), by God we fear Allah (SWT) but we do not fear puffed-up tinpot emperors or any human with man-given authority, neither do we suck up to earthly authorities (your reputation of 399 and power of 2 means nothing -I would rather be despised by mankind and loved by Allah SWT), and the reason there are so few Sabi'un in the world today is because we fear only Allah (SWT) and stand up to such people and their innovations (in this case forbidding open and public written messages between men and women that Allah (SWT) has permitted through the Sunnah of The Prophet SAW copied by the Salaf and detailed in in the Hadith) even if it means facing our deaths. This is our Jihad, and you will not silence us even through our deaths no matter how godless and barbaric you (this is a generic usage not accusative) make them.
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Daffodil
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Asalamulaikum
firstly let me just get this out of my system LOLLL OH MY LIFE, OH MY GOLLY GOSHHH, GOOD LAWD HAVE MERCY!!!
what the blueee hail are u on mate????
Firstly, freely chatting in a chat room is not the same as posting relavant bits of information on a public forum where ppl can see what others have wrote n there is no privacy or secrecy.
If u want to see fatwas against chat rooms feel free to ask n I will show u.
Seriously u shud consider doing stand up, what on earthhh has reputation got anything to do with anything?? lol, i never created this site so i cant get rid of the reputation facillity n neither have i ever askd ppl to giv me reputation. seriously i think u must have been sleep deprived or something of that nature wen u wrote that post.
I pray to Allah swt to guide u n forgive u n teach u some adhab. ameen.
Asalamulaikum.
firstly let me just get this out of my system LOLLL OH MY LIFE, OH MY GOLLY GOSHHH, GOOD LAWD HAVE MERCY!!!
what the blueee hail are u on mate????
Firstly, freely chatting in a chat room is not the same as posting relavant bits of information on a public forum where ppl can see what others have wrote n there is no privacy or secrecy.
If u want to see fatwas against chat rooms feel free to ask n I will show u.
Seriously u shud consider doing stand up, what on earthhh has reputation got anything to do with anything?? lol, i never created this site so i cant get rid of the reputation facillity n neither have i ever askd ppl to giv me reputation. seriously i think u must have been sleep deprived or something of that nature wen u wrote that post.
I pray to Allah swt to guide u n forgive u n teach u some adhab. ameen.
Asalamulaikum.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Are you sure about this? We have seperate chat rooms for brothers and sisters. If you see something like this you should notify a mod or admin immediately.
Daffodil
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Are you sure about this? We have seperate chat rooms for brothers and sisters. If you see something like this you should notify a mod or admin immediately.
Yep im defo sure I even confirmed it with labibah, n even asked them "are u all sisters" n they were like no "im a brother, shes a sister etc etc" n i kwikly left cuz i was so scared n shocked n upset. Will let the mods know next time inshallah but hopefully there wnt be a next time.
Asalamulaikum
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:salamext:
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) categorically prohibited privacy between a man and a non related woman. He (peace be upon him) said,
"When a woman and non mahram man are alone, Satan is the third." (Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi as being sahih)
That's why brothers and sisters aren't allowed to chat privately insha'Allaah.
:wasalamex
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) categorically prohibited privacy between a man and a non related woman. He (peace be upon him) said,
"When a woman and non mahram man are alone, Satan is the third." (Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi as being sahih)
That's why brothers and sisters aren't allowed to chat privately insha'Allaah.
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:salamext:
If no-one is there, except just one brother or sister - then they are in private and no-one except Allaah azawajal can see them. So shaytan might be the third there.
:wasalamex
If no-one is there, except just one brother or sister - then they are in private and no-one except Allaah azawajal can see them. So shaytan might be the third there.
:wasalamex
syilla
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nah...hehe...what for? unless i'm loss hehe.
why are you asking? i'm just thinking....if main chat room can be entered by anyone why is it consider private. But again...maybe i'm wrong cause i never been in the chat room...so i don't really know how it looks like.
why are you asking? i'm just thinking....if main chat room can be entered by anyone why is it consider private. But again...maybe i'm wrong cause i never been in the chat room...so i don't really know how it looks like.
Daffodil
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Question :
I am a sister, who usually logs in to Paltalk and then goes to the Islamic rooms so that I may gain some knowledge related to our religion. Sometimes while I am in one of those Islamic rooms in Paltalk,a muslim brother(looking for a wife) in the room asks me to have a private written chat with him so that we get to know one another. Some of the questions he asks me are: where i live, my age, whether i am married(by the way I am not married), if I am planning to get marry, whether I live with my parents, and so on. My problem is, I don't know whether I am allowed(Islamicly) to give non-muharim brother those kinds of informations which related to me.
Is it really SIN to talk to a brother in writing ??.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
There is nothing wrong with a Muslim woman making use of the internet and entering the Paltalk website for that purpose, so long as that does not lead to anything that is forbidden in Islam, such as talking privately with men. That is because talking to men may turn into chat which usually leads temptation. Hence it is essential to be strict and avoid that, seeking the pleasure of Allaah and fearing His punishment.
How often have these conversations lead to bad results, and even caused people to fall in love, and have led some to do things that are even more serious than that. The Shaytaan makes each of them imagine attractive qualities in other, which leads them to develop an attachment that detrimental to their spiritual welfare and worldly affairs.
Sharee’ah blocks all the ways that may lead to fitnah (temptation, trial), hence it forbids softness of speech and does not allow a man to be alone with a non-mahram woman. Undoubtedly these private chats are not regarded as khulwah in the sense that he people involved cannot see one another, but they are one of the greatest causes of fitnah as is well known.
What has happened to you is the best testimonial to the truth of what we are saying, because it is difficult for a man to ask these personal questions of a believing woman, unless he uses these means that are being used in a bad way.
Fear Allaah, and do not speak to non-mahram men. This is safer for your religious commitment and purer for your heart. You should note that marriage to a righteous man is a blessing from Allaah, and a blessing cannot be acquired by means of sin.
Shaykh Ibn Jibreen (may Allaah preserve him) was asked: What is the ruling on correspondence between young men and women, if this correspondence is free from immorality and love?
He replied:
It is not permissible for any man to correspond with a woman who is not his mahram, because of the fitnah (temptation) involved in that. A person may think that there is no fitnah, but the Shaytaan will keep trying until he tempts him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded those who heard of the Dajjaal to keep away from him, and said that a man may approach him as a believer, but the Dajjaal will keep trying until he leads him astray.
Correspondence between young men and women involves a great deal of fitnah and danger, so we must avoid it, even though the questioner says that this correspondence is free from immorality and love.
From Fataawa al-Mar’ah, compiled by Muhammad al-Musnad, p. 96.
Undoubtedly correspondence via chat rooms is more dangerous than correspondence by mail, but both are bad.
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
I am a sister, who usually logs in to Paltalk and then goes to the Islamic rooms so that I may gain some knowledge related to our religion. Sometimes while I am in one of those Islamic rooms in Paltalk,a muslim brother(looking for a wife) in the room asks me to have a private written chat with him so that we get to know one another. Some of the questions he asks me are: where i live, my age, whether i am married(by the way I am not married), if I am planning to get marry, whether I live with my parents, and so on. My problem is, I don't know whether I am allowed(Islamicly) to give non-muharim brother those kinds of informations which related to me.
Is it really SIN to talk to a brother in writing ??.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
There is nothing wrong with a Muslim woman making use of the internet and entering the Paltalk website for that purpose, so long as that does not lead to anything that is forbidden in Islam, such as talking privately with men. That is because talking to men may turn into chat which usually leads temptation. Hence it is essential to be strict and avoid that, seeking the pleasure of Allaah and fearing His punishment.
How often have these conversations lead to bad results, and even caused people to fall in love, and have led some to do things that are even more serious than that. The Shaytaan makes each of them imagine attractive qualities in other, which leads them to develop an attachment that detrimental to their spiritual welfare and worldly affairs.
Sharee’ah blocks all the ways that may lead to fitnah (temptation, trial), hence it forbids softness of speech and does not allow a man to be alone with a non-mahram woman. Undoubtedly these private chats are not regarded as khulwah in the sense that he people involved cannot see one another, but they are one of the greatest causes of fitnah as is well known.
What has happened to you is the best testimonial to the truth of what we are saying, because it is difficult for a man to ask these personal questions of a believing woman, unless he uses these means that are being used in a bad way.
Fear Allaah, and do not speak to non-mahram men. This is safer for your religious commitment and purer for your heart. You should note that marriage to a righteous man is a blessing from Allaah, and a blessing cannot be acquired by means of sin.
Shaykh Ibn Jibreen (may Allaah preserve him) was asked: What is the ruling on correspondence between young men and women, if this correspondence is free from immorality and love?
He replied:
It is not permissible for any man to correspond with a woman who is not his mahram, because of the fitnah (temptation) involved in that. A person may think that there is no fitnah, but the Shaytaan will keep trying until he tempts him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded those who heard of the Dajjaal to keep away from him, and said that a man may approach him as a believer, but the Dajjaal will keep trying until he leads him astray.
Correspondence between young men and women involves a great deal of fitnah and danger, so we must avoid it, even though the questioner says that this correspondence is free from immorality and love.
From Fataawa al-Mar’ah, compiled by Muhammad al-Musnad, p. 96.
Undoubtedly correspondence via chat rooms is more dangerous than correspondence by mail, but both are bad.
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
Daffodil
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The fact is non mehram women and men shudnt speak to eachother unless its necasery. mixed chat rooms where ppl talk freely to eachother can lead to fitnah.
Just like we wudnt talk with strange men/women on the street we shudnt chat with them in a chat room either.
It is absolutely certain that The Instant Messaging Board was not designed with the intention you have indicated above.
If you intend to have segregation in instant messaging, what is your basis for allowing mixing on non-instant messaging like this curent thread?
Consistency people.
Mustafa Allah
I absolutely Agree with you. So public Instant Messaging Boards like the one created by the designers of this site (and every non-instant board like this one for example) is the best sort of place to pass messages rather than even private messages (which this site has also been designed to facilitate).
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