Every Christian before Jesus was born a sinner but that only meant they need it to revert their situation by becoming closer to god by showing their faith to him. Not many did so before Jesus come to earth.
Jesus really made a huge difference since after him Christianity became the most popular religion of all times and that is still the case today.
So, in other words, according to christianity, God send prophets prior to the earth, each of them starting their own religion...and those different religions were also allowed as long as people could show their faith in him through that religion?
is that correct? And (I know the answer to this, but I want to see what your answer is from Christian perspective, so I'm gonna ask anyway) why would God want to see that? Isn't God Omnipotent? Can he not see the future or does He not just know who we are and what is in oir hearts...so why do we need to show God someting that He already knows?
and being born a sinner was somehow OK then, but something still had to be done about that so Jesus came along right?
Sorry but you misunderstood. I tried to use the most common definitions of Islam and Muslim but I don't mind if you provide your own definitions.
I’m not interested in the Arabic meanings of the words but what they represent.
Islam = a religion
Muslim = the member of Islam
So, Eddy...you found yourself a rabbit hole that goes deeper than you ever imagined right?
you want to talk about Islaam but you are not interested in the meaning of those words?
Islaam means "submission to the will of God" in Arabic
Muslim means "one who submits to the will of God" in Arabic
Allah is not a name, it is "God" in Arabic.
What word do you think Arabic Christians use to refer to God? they speak about Allah.
As you can see by the meanings of the words Islaam and Muslim, it is a general religion.
So Islaam is not based on some prophet who started his own religion...it is the Arch religion which was always there. It still is valid that if there is someone out there who has legitimately never heard of Muhammad sas, never heard about the Quraan, never had the reasonable chance to learn about Islaam...but still believes in a God...then this person is considered "Muslim". small children and mentally challenged people who cannot distinguish between right and wrong, good or evil...are considered "Muslim".
So it is hard to be not a muslim...you need to know about Muhammad sas and the Quraan and reject that.
Even Wikipedia does not venture into putting such a definition to Islaam...because that is just not true...it is not what we believe.
in fact, you might want to read the Wikipedia version about Islaam...then you might have a better impression about Islaam then you have now.
let me dictate one sentence from wiki:
Muslims believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed many times before through prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.[SUP]
[10][/SUP]
It is about being able to communicate. We can have different definitions but we have to make clear how we use these words to avoid misunderstandings.
I understand your intention but you do not achieve that by adopting definitions that are not true just for the sake of argument.
let us agree with each other that from now on we pronounce "2" as "three",
so that we may legitimately argue that 1+1=three
or three+three=4
would that be a useful thing to do?
I guess not
That is why we need definitions, Islam was not always there according to what most of the world understands.
You need to understand that what you believe as a Muslim has no value outside Islam.
I can say anybody who doesn’t believe in Jesus is going to hell but as a Muslim or a Jew or a Buddhist that statement has zero value, doesn’t it?
So the phrases everyone is born a Muslim or Islam has always been there are only valid within Islam and they are absolutely meaningless to the rest of the world.
I partially agree. I understand that those phrases have zero value to you because it requires to believe...however...there is this strong source to back it up which is still bugging you about it.
It is literally written in the Quraan...you cannot deny that.
So, unless you can prove to me that the Quraan has a human origin, and explain to me who wrote it and how it got distributed, you continuously have to deal with the Quraan as a legitimate source.
as a scientist, you cannot ignore a useful source, you have to have prove to be able to say "this source is unreliable because..."
You see that's where you are wrong. Christianity started exactly during Jesus Christ passage on earth.
no. during Jesus as passage on earth it was Islaam being taught to people through Jesus as himself...after Jesus as left the Earth, the human made religion "christianity" started.
Without Jesus Christ Christianity would have never taken place, the God would have still be there but now we would have only Judaism and Islam.
true
Same thing with Islam, without Muhammad there would be no Islam, the God would still be there so now we would have only Judaism and Christianity.
See what I mean?
Without Muhammad sas, there would be no Quraan...this means that only the original Gospels revealed to Jesus as would be valid as the holy book. and the few people who still believe in the original teachings of Jesus as, who also reject trinity would be considered as Muslims.
I have only one more request from you:
Could you please show me that Islam existed before prophet Muhammad?
Please don't use the Quran nor the Hadith to answer.
I want you to use an independent source.
Please use only use historical data.
Show me a civilization or tribe of people who followed a religion that looked like Islam who's god is called Allah and its members call themselves Muslims or any other name.
Links please.
again, arabic christians god is called Allah.
about proof of islaam as the premordial religion:
Proof in the way you ask is not available.
But think about it logically.
God created earth
God put humans on earth to find God for themselves
God sends down various prophets throughout history to guide us to Him...and He sends down Books and scriptures.
if you read the original versions of the last books (besides the Quraan, because you do not wish that) you read similar stories about prior prophets and what they have done.
How can you deny that christianity has deeper roots than the time of Jesus as?
How can you deny that Jewism has deeper roots than the time of Moses as?
Do you think it is coincidence that Islaam, Christianity and Jewism share the same stories and prophets?
or are they inspired from each other?
I do not have any historical source for you showing that Islaam existed prior to Muhammad sas...if I had, then there were only muslims here on earth.
