For What Did Jesus Die?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wyatt
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 57
  • Views Views 8K
I think this is a good place to ask this.
Do Muslims believe Jews demanded Jesus to be killed? If so, what reason was he killed for? According to your religion, he preached Islam, which is very similar to Judaism, so I don't really see a reason why Jews would want him dead. Is there an explanation in Islamic texts about the reason as to why Jesus was crucified? (well not actually crucified, but convicted)
 
Fedos>>>Because his was the perfect sacrifice. Jesus commited no sin, no, not once. He was sinless. And so God placed all of the world's sins (past, present, and future) on him.


>>>What's happen to all the verses which say: Everyone will be judge according to his own deeds?


Fedos>>>Here's a good scripture from the Old Testament:

'For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonment for the soul.' Leviticus 17: 11


>>>The blood of animal or the man?


Can you tell us what kind of blood was used to wash the sin of a killer?
 
Fedos>>>Because his was the perfect sacrifice. Jesus commited no sin, no, not once. He was sinless. And so God placed all of the world's sins (past, present, and future) on him.


>>>What's happen to all the verses which say: Everyone will be judge according to his own deeds?

I think you are referring to this:

'Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile.' Romans 2: 6-9.

This is not talking about a deeds based salvation, but a salvation wherein we are free from the bondage of sin. It doesn't say those who do good deeds will inherit the kingdom, it says those who live righteous before God.


Fedos>>>Here's a good scripture from the Old Testament:

'For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonment for the soul.' Leviticus 17: 11


>>>The blood of animal or the man?


Can you tell us what kind of blood was used to wash the sin of a killer?

Well, the blood of Christ. But the Old Testament is a percursor to the New, or a foreshadowing of the New. The writer of Hebrews tells us that it is not possible that the blood of goats and bulls should take away sins. He also says this:

'For if the blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth (set you apart) to the purifying of the flesh:

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?' Hebrews 9: 13.

In terms of your last question, Christ can redeem anyone. The Bible calls things like murder sin unto death though. There is a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death (like theft). But just because you kill someone that doesn't mean that you are eternally condemned. You still have an opportunity to know Christ. Consider the mercy that Cain professed God showed him after he murdered Abel for instance.
 
I think this is a good place to ask this.
Do Muslims believe Jews demanded Jesus to be killed? If so, what reason was he killed for? According to your religion, he preached Islam, which is very similar to Judaism, so I don't really see a reason why Jews would want him dead. Is there an explanation in Islamic texts about the reason as to why Jesus was crucified? (well not actually crucified, but convicted)


Greetings;

What did Jesus ,according to Islam,came for?

[043:063] When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear God and obey me.

[003:050] "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.


Their reaction

[061:014] O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the disciples, "We are God's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved

[002:087] We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

Then the cure for imposters,killing !

[005:110]And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from violence to thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.

and that is not only a Quranic claim ,it is supported by the Jewish source:

The Jewish legends in regard to Jesus are found in three sources, each independent of the others—(1) in New Testament apocrypha and Christian polemical works, (2) in the Talmud and the Midrash, and (3) in the life of Jesus ("Toledot Yeshu'") that originated in the Middle Ages. It is the tendency of all these sources to be-little the person of Jesus by ascribing to him (1) illegitimate birth, (2) magic, and (3) a shameful
death. (from JewishEncyclopedia)

their attitude is expressed for the first time in the "Acts of Pilate" ("Gospel of
Nicodemus," ed. Thilo, in "Codex Apoc. Novi Testamenti," i. 526, Leipsic, 1832; comp.
Origen, "Contra Celsum," i. 28). Celsus makes the same statement in another passage, where he refers even to a written source (ἀναγέγραπται), adding that the seducer was a soldier by the name of Panthera (l.c. i. 32). The name "Panthera" occurs here for the first time; two centuries later it occurs in Epiphanius ("Hæres." lxxviii. 7), who ascribes the surname "Panther" to Jacob, an ancestor of Jesus; and John of Damascus ("De Orthod. Fide." iv., § 15) includes the names "Panther" and "Barpanther" in the genealogy of Mary. It is certain, in any case, that the rabbinical sources also regard
Jesus as the "son of Pandera"

It appears from this passage that, aside from Pandera and Sṭada, the couple Pappus b. Judah and Miriam the hairdresser were taken to be the parents of Jesus. Pappus has nothing to do with the story of Jesus, and was only connected with it because his wife happened to be called "Miriam" (= "Mary"), and was known to be an adulteress.

All the "Toledot" editions contain a similar story of a dispute which Jesus carried on with the Scribes, who, on the ground of that dispute, declared him to be a bastar?.....

Jesus as Magician.

According to Celsus (in Origen, "Contra Celsum," i. 28) and to the Talmud (Shab. 104b), Jesus learned magic in Egypt and performed his miracles by means of it; the latter work, in addition, states that he cut the magic formulas into his skin. (Tosef., Shab. xi. 4; Yer. Shab. 13d);
The accusation of magic is frequently brought against Jesus. Jerome mentions it, quoting the Jews: "Magum vocant et Judæi Dominum meum" ("Ep. lv., ad Ascellam," i. 196, ed. Vallarsi); Marcus, of the sect of the Valentinians, was, according to Jerome, a native of Egypt, and was accused of being, like Jesus, a magician (Hilgenfeld,
"Ketzergesch." p. 370, Leipsic, 1884). There were even Christian heretics who looked upon the founder of their religion as a magician (Fabricius, in "Codex Apocr. Novi Testamenti," iii. 396),

The third Legend

The scholars of Israel took Jesus into the synagogue of Tiberias and bound him to a pillar; when his followers came to liberate him, a battle occurred in which the Jewish party was worsted and his disciples took him to Antiochia. On the eve of Passover he entered Jerusalem riding on an ass (comp. Matt. xxi. 4-17), disguised—according to several editions—so that his former disciple Judas had to betray him in order to secure his seizure. He was executed on the eve of the Passover festival, which was also the eve of the Sabbath. The executioners were not able to hang him upon a tree, for he had conjured all trees, by means of the name of God, not to receive him, and therefore they all broke; he was finally received by a large cabbagestalk (comp. Targ. Sheni to Esth. vii. 9).

the halakic assertion that Balaam (i.e., the prototype of Jesus) had no part in the future life must also be especially noted (Sanh. x. 2). It is further said: "The pupils of the recreant Balaam”refers to Jesus” inherit hell" (Abot v. 19).

The Jewish (Jesus been crucified) legend ,goes on and tells:

Jesus is accordingly, in the following curious Talmudic legend, thought
to sojourn in hell. A certain Onḳelos b. Ḳaloniḳos, son of Titus' sister, desired to embrace Judaism, and called up from hell by magic first Titus, then Balaam, and finally Jesus, who are here taken together as the worst enemies of Judaism. He asked Jesus: "Who is esteemed in that world?" Jesus said: "Israel." "Shall one join them?" Jesus said to him: "Further their well-being; do nothing to their detriment; whoever touches them touches even the apple of His eye." Onḳelos then asked the nature of his punishment, and was told that it was the degrading fate of those who mock the wise (Giṭ. 56b-57a). This most revolting passage was applied in the Middle Ages to another Jesus (e.g., by R. Jeḥiel, in the Paris disputation; "Wikkuaḥ," p. 4, Thorn, 1873).

the Encyclopedia goes on and tells the following (pay attention)

(Neither this accusation nor that concerning the birth of Jesus is found in the
canonical Gospels, but it occurs in the apocryphal accounts)
And it is clear why such facts are absent from the canonical Gospels as they want to make their readers understand that they wanted to kill him for claiming deity..

peace
 
Last edited:
This is mainly towards Christians.

If Jesus died for humanity's sins, then how can one go to hell? If one goes to Hell, then what did Jesus do for them?
Well, Podarok, as you can see threads sometimes take unexpected turns. My question is did you get your question(s) sufficiently addressed, or do you want more response from Christians?
 
Greetings;

What did Jesus ,according to Islam,came for?

[043:063] When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear God and obey me.

Does the Q'uran give the details of the points that Jesus came to make clear?
 
the purpose of Jesus.. first as is in the bible

parallel2.gif
International Standard Version (©2008)
But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus responded, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."
King James Bible
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
American King James Version
But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
American Standard Version
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Bible in Basic English
But he made answer and said, I was sent only to the wandering sheep of the house of Israel.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep that are lost of the house of Israel.
Darby Bible Translation
But he answering said, I have not been sent save to the lost sheep of Israel's house.
English Revised Version
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Webster's Bible Translation
But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Weymouth New Testament
"I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.
World English Bible
But he answered, "I wasn't sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Young's Literal Translation
and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'
http://bible.cc/matthew/15-24.htm

obviously, the lost sheep didn't care for him, and the gentiles made him into the man/God.. his purpose according to Islam:


The message of Jesus was basically the same as the message of other prophets of God. He was sent to invite people to the worship of One God, to do the righteous deed and be kind and loving to others. He reminded his people to pay attention not only to the letter of the laws but also to the spirit of the laws.
The Qur’an says that Jesus was mistreated, denied and rejected by his people just as other prophets were also mistreated. Some of his contemporaries opposed him and tried to crucify him. It is also reported in the Christian Bible that Jesus prayed to God to save him from his enemies and remove the “cup of death” from him. (“If thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” Mark 14:36 and Luke 22:42) God accepted Jesus’ prayer and saved him from crucifixion or death on the cross. He was lifted up to heaven (An-Nisaa’: 157-158). Jesus is yet to fulfill his Messianic role. Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to earth before the end of time and will restore peace and order, struggle against the Anti-Christ (Dajjal) or demonic forces, and bring victory for truth and righteousness. The true followers of Jesus will prevail over those who deny him, misrepresent him and reject him.
http://islamicscholars.newsvine.com...9723-status-of-jesus-in-islam-islamonlinenet-

all the best..

P.S: I never thought I'd admit to this, but how true and hilarious is pygo's comment.. since Jesus came to eat my sins, I should have a carte Blanche to sin sin sin =)
counter intuitive no?
 
So if you accept jesus than you are guranteed heaven, even if you SIN, is this what christianity teaches?

Though this question zeros in on the death of Christ, it can be applied to every religion.
Does only your faith and believe attone you from sin and send you to heaven?
Isn't there something that you the individual needs to do so as to receive this favor of getting to reign with God in heaven ?

For Christians it is believing in Christ, His death and Resurrection, living according to the Word and living you life as an example to others, that Christ is reflected in everythig you do, think, say act. Naturaly( our flesh) will always come in the way after all we do have free will to choose to follow what God expects of us or to enjoy the pleasures of the earth. When we do choose to sin, that is not the end, we do have the option to 1. realise that what you did is not acceptable in the sight of God, 2. Repent for this sin and seek forgiveness 3. Strive not to give in to the flesh and its desires after that which is not easy but you , you, you have to decide to live right.

So to answer your question, Christianity does not gurantee entry into heaven even though you sin, you still have to make it right with God just on the same way you have to make it right with a friend or spouce when you wrong them.

The Bible also does say that:

Matthew
{7:21} Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will
of my Father which is in heaven. {7:22} Many will say to
me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy
name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
name done many wonderful works? {7:23} And then will I
profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work iniquity.

You have to KNOW Christ!
 
but then again, wasn't it God the one who made man's nature sinful-according to christian doctrine-?
so couldn't he forgive without resort to sacrifice?
 
Last edited:
No it doesn't

why?

cause The Quran is not a gospel,It shares the basic message of the true gospel though..

I was not phrasing the Q'uran as a Gospel but instead hoped it would give an elaboration of His purpose on earth as a prophet according to your faith.
 
I was not phrasing the Q'uran as a Gospel .

If the Quran purpose is to give the details of the gospel of Jesus ,we would rather call it not the Holy Quran but the Holy Gospel....

but instead hoped it would give an elaboration of His purpose on earth as a prophet according to your faith .

And what if it contains all the details of such past issue,what difference would make it for you?
would you believe such Quranic details to be true?
 
Last edited:
If the Quran purpose is to give the details of the gospel of Jesus ,we would rather call it not the Holy Quran but the Holy Gospel....



And what if it contains all the details of such past issue,what difference would make it for you?
would you believe such Quranic details to be true?

For knowledge only.
 
but then again, wasn't it God the one who made man's nature sinful-according to christian doctrine-?
so couldn't he forgive without resort to sacrifice?
I know you not to be one who speaks without an actual reason, but I can't think of what it is that you are refering to. What leads you to suggest that (according to Christian doctrine) God made man's nature sinful?
 
I know you not to be one who speaks without an actual reason, but I can't think of what it is that you are refering to. What leads you to suggest that (according to Christian doctrine) God made man's nature sinful?
greetings

I do not know about others but for me the following quote does it
All Men are Sinners
When God demanded obedience, Adam acted on behalf of all men. Alas, he was disobedient, and judgment came upon all of us. We call this original sin. This means that Adam's sin is imputed to us. But also that through his fall, we inherit a sinful nature. In Adam we all did sin. Man listened to the devil, who urged us to transgress God's Law. But at the same time we ourselves became wilfully, that is with malicious intent, disobedient to God's Law. It is our own fault that we cannot do any more what God requires from us.
click here >> for more <<

Salam
 
Last edited:
^thnx brother doorster,
and yes, that is the basis for my assumption, since Adam sinned, it was in his nature to sin, our inheriting his sin compounds this.
isn't it that even those accepting Christ as savior sin, regardless of degree of sin. then sin is in our nature which God created,,
 
Last edited:
^thnx brother doorster,
and yes, that is the basis for my assumption, since Adam sinned, it was in his nature to sin, our inheriting his sin compounds this.
isn't it that even those accepting Christ as savior sin, regardless of degree of sin. then sin is in our nature which God created,,


OK. I got you. But you originally said,
wasn't it God the one who made man's nature sinful
And the answer to that is NO.

God made us. Thus he made our nature. And that nature had free will. But God did not make man's nature sinful. As he made it, the Bible declares, we were created in his image. And since God is altogether holy and righteous in every aspect of his being, there is no way that man was created with a sinful nature.

Note: some people mistakenly think that when Christians talk about people being made in God's image that we are talking about some sort of physical representation. We are not, we are talking about a moral representaion. So people, as we were created by God, were in fact originally sinless just as God is sinless.

Now, if you are talking about our nature today; today we are sinful. This, however, is not a product of God's creating of us with a sinful nature, but rather of what Christians call the Fall. We chose to be sinful. I think even Islam would agree with Christianity on this point, that there are no sinless people in the world today. We all fail, at some level, to submit ourselves to the will of God. This is not something that God created, but it is something that God allows for -- just as much in Islamic thought as in Christian theology.

So, let me say again. Yes, we are sinful. I would go so far as to say that we have a sinful nature (I know that Islam thinks we are all born sinless and then choose to sin.) which makes it impossible to find God on our own. But the sin that is in our lives is not a result of having been created this way by God, for God created us without sin. It is there because we chose sin. The Muslim thinks that each person chooses this for him/her self in this life. The Christian affirms that Adam chose sin over following after God and that this then corrupted the image of God that he had been created in, and since he did so BEFORE having any children, that he passed on this corrupted self to all of his offspring. It is sort of like Adam's sin changed our spiritual DNA, but God is not the reason for this corruption, rather mankind has only itself to blame.
 
assalamu alaikum

first i wanna say that jesus didnt die at all it was acually judas that died on the cross (it wasnt even acually a cross it was acually a tree or something else)!

jesus (also called isa ibn marjam thats what he called himself) ascended towards heaven (jennah) alive thats all in the quran!

so its again prooven that the bible was getting faked up by the **** accursed
monkey devil iblis and his children so **** the bible like it is now its all about the
quran!!
 
assalamu alaikum

first i wanna say that jesus didnt die at all it was acually judas that died on the cross (it wasnt even acually a cross it was acually a tree or something else)!
I believe that you are mistakenly accepting folk religion as if it were equal to the teachings of the Qur'an. Please give chapter and verse where this is found in the Qur'an.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top