France and the Veil

[aadil77]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Even though I think the Burka is utterly ridiculous, I see this new proposal as equally ridiculous. It's an irrational response to a rational concern, and even though France clearly isn't very happy about giving equal rights to Muslims- they've made this perfectly clear in the past- I do think this is an extreme measure. Muslims are 8% of France, surely the French government must acknowledge some Muslims may try and fight this?

What I find ridiculous is that women can strip off and walk around completely naked on french beaches and not get fined for it, yet you get fined for covering up

 

[Supreme]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

According to me there is no such thing as the 'Muslim world' or a 'Muslim Country'. All these so called Muslim countries are just puppets of Europe and America. They would never implement such a law as it would mean that this would ruin their relations with these western countries. It doesn't matter to them how the west is reacting to Islam and treating their Muslim brothers and sisters.

There is no such thing as a 'Muslim' country or a 'Christian' country or a 'white' country or a 'black' country- there is only such thing as a human country.

In secular society people acting on their religions should not be given special treatment or mistreatment. If you do X, it shouldn't matter why you did it, it should be treated the same as others doing X. Not better and not worse. There's no excuse for banning muslims from covering their faces for religious reasons if others can cover their faces for other reasons.

Exactly, secular society has yet to treat religious folk as equals. You either ban all religious clothing in public or none at all- how can you ban the burka and not the crucifix? Or the turban and not the kippa?

What I find ridiculous is that women can strip off and walk around completely naked on french beaches and not get fined for it, yet you get fined for coveri

That's your opinion; however, let's not turn a thread about the incompetence of the French government into a discussion about nudist beaches.

 

[Life_Is_Short]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Then they talk of freedom.

[MAD]Impostors [/MAD]

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Even though I think the Burka is utterly ridiculous, I see this new proposal as equally ridiculous. It's an irrational response to a rational concern, and even though France clearly isn't very happy about giving equal rights to Muslims- they've made this perfectly clear in the past- I do think this is an extreme measure. Muslims are 8% of France, surely the French government must acknowledge some Muslims may try and fight this?

i think it beats your *wannabe* attitude any day.

 

[m102313]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

There is no such thing as a 'Muslim' country or a 'Christian' country or a 'white' country or a 'black' country- there is only such thing as a human country.

I think you did not get my point, I know that there is no such country for one set of beliefs/race etc. What I meant was a country which is governed by Islamic laws (Shariah), I do not believe that there is such a country.

 

[Supreme]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

I think you did not get my point, I know that there is no such country for one set of beliefs/race etc. What I meant was a country which is governed by Islamic laws (Shariah), I do not believe that there is such a country.

Oh, my mistake then! I apologise.

think it beats your *wannabe* attitude any day.

That doesn't make sense.

 

[Ar-RaYYan]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Oh, and P.S. This is just the beginning. Headscarf will probably be next.

Headscarfs are already banned in French schools!




I find those reasons ridicolous and hilarious at the same time! "public safety and sexual equality considerations" yeah right!

 

[Life_Is_Short]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Why can't they ban tight jeans worn by (gay) men? Why is freedom/free thinking more important then. They're a crime against nature. :ermm:

 

[KAding]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Just to make clear. We are NOT talking about the hijab here, but any type of clothing that completely covers the face! This covers both the burqa and in this law, also the niqaab apparently. It also covers non-religious clothing. But this law does NOT apply to headscarfs, neither Christian nor Muslim.

 

[KAding]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

I find those reasons ridicolous and hilarious! "public safety and sexual equality considerations" yeah right!

I agree 'public safety' is a pretty lame reason. However, if gender equality is something you strive for I agree that the burqa or niqaab (which only women have to wear) is problematic.

Mind you, I completely disagree with this ban, I think it is illiberal and I don't approve of the government intervening in religious affairs like this.

 

[KAding]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

I believe this will be followed by banning of Hijab in rest of the Europe aswell.

Oh? Why do you think that?

 

[KAding]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

If French politicians thinks to "liberate" muslim sisters by this they are wrong. Those whose can´t pay it will stay at home - what is opposite of idelialism of European feminists whose want all women out of they homes.

That is a very good point. I agree. This will not help 'liberate' those who currently wear the thing in France.

On the other hand, I am sure it is also meant as a sign for potential Muslim immigrants to not come to France if they desire to wear a burqa or niqab.

 

[thetruth2009]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers and peace to all of you.


I am French, I live next Paris.

What I feel in France its our government is voting always laws against a minority of French sitizen which are Muslims.

They started by the ban of the HIJAB ( headscarf ) at school, now its the Burka.

Now in france they are talking about what is to be French, what is the definition of the perfect one, the perfect is one who :


- White colour

- Eat pork

- drink alcool

- no wearing headscarf or hijab

and many things .........


I think a French sitizen can be black, white, brown yellow, jew, muslims.

I think if you are born in france and your parents are foreigners you are french

If you study, work and pay taxes you are french.


We have to work together and we have to try to learn from others people, no matter of religion, colour or what ever, we are all Humans no ? Stop racism.


One more think keep in mind in 2012 we have election here, sarkozy is trying to get racist people to vote for him.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, peace be upon to all of you.

 

[-Elle-]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

OH what a joke. What is this world coming to,honestly.

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations

Um. No. Sexual equality is having women being recognized for who they are and not what they wear or what they should look like, and not be depending on cosmetics and fashion to tell them what's the new "look" this season.

What I find ridiculous is that women can strip off and walk around completely naked on french beaches and not get fined for it, yet you get fined for covering up

THANK YOU for pointing that out. I was just about to do that.

The point is, France has always had problems with women covering up,and this article is simply more proof of that.


And that feminist who said it's a walking coffin. Oh joke. I never heard anything so ridiculous. It's-a-piece-of-clothes. Oh sorry,a loose piece of clothes.

Quite comfortable too I bet. (more so than those insanely tight jeans).

It's a choice to wear it, it's a right we should have. Did you ever hear of a lady in a burqa robbing a bank? That's about the only place I could imagine where is could cause valid uneasiness. So don't tell me it's for *safety* reasons. Just be straight and say you don't feel comfortable sitting in the bus next to a woman wearing it because you believe all that rubbish the media feeds you.

*sigh.*

Peace to all.

 

[Ar-RaYYan]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

I agree 'public safety' is a pretty lame reason. However, if gender equality is something you strive for I agree that the burqa or niqaab (which only women have to wear) is problematic.

Mind you, I completely disagree with this ban, I think it is illiberal and I don't approve of the government intervening in religious affairs like this.

How is wearing burqa or niqaab problematic? These women arent forced to wear them! They choose to wear them. What has gender equality got to do with the freedom to wear a certain cloth?

 

[thetruth2009]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


Can you know guess how many women wearing the BURKA in FRance ? ? ????


I give you few minuts to reply.



Peace be upon to you all of you.

 

[thetruth2009]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Assalam aleykoum,


I give you the answer, can you imagine only about 2 000 women in France are wearing the BURKA are you surprised ?


Can you tell me why in France they make a lot of noise for 2 000 of our sisters ???


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

 

[KAding]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

How is wearing burqa or niqaab problematic? These women arent forced to wear them! They choose to wear them. What has gender equality got to do with the freedom to wear a certian cloth?

If you put it that way, I agree.

But for policy makers, if the policy objective is gender equality, including participation on the job market and social integration, then the burqa or niqaab will be seen as an obstacle. The chance of finding a job in France are pretty much nil if you insist on wearing either of these veils. You will also be a social outcast, that is pretty much a given. Fact also is that only women need to cover themselves so completely according to some interpretations of the Islam. In reality their goal is not to ban the cloth, but rather this orthodox interpretation of Islam that calls for women to wear a burqa.

 

[KAding]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Can you tell me why in France they make a lot of noise for 2 000 of our sisters ???

For the same reason why this excites Muslims so much: Symbolism. Both sides see it as part of the larger ideological struggle between Islam and secular society. Same as with the minaret ban in Switzerland really. These are symbolic (or 'principled' if you will) positions.

 

[crayon]

Re: Women who wear burkas in France face £700 fine

Just to make clear. We are NOT talking about the hijab here, but any type of clothing that completely covers the face! This covers both the burqa and in this law, also the niqaab apparently. It also covers non-religious clothing. But this law does NOT apply to headscarfs, neither Christian nor Muslim.

This is a niqab

The eyes show, therefore the face is not completely covered, therefore it shouldn't come under the rulings of this law.