Free Will In Heaven

[Tyrion]

Of course there is free will. But people will be in front of God, and they cannot hide anything from Him. So why would anyone do anything against Him there? Think of this when wondering about good and evil in the Hereafter.

Wasn't Satan/Shaytan in the same position?

 

[Independent]

Wasn't Satan/Shaytan in the same position?

Good point - have you ever read Paradise Lost by John Milton, the 17th century English poet? There is a very famous line in it from Satan, who explains why he has rebelled: "Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven." Obviously he is the bad guy (in this poem as well as in theology) but there is something fundamental about the human spirit in that line. As has been said by many commentators, Milton has (wholly unintentionally) made Satan the most interesting character in the story.

Is this not part of being human? The bad as well as the good?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ humans have the ability to become purer then angels and more evil then devils.

i once read that the reason that anyone with an iota of pride will never enter heaven is because of the mark left upon the heart which must be purified. impure beings have no admittance to paradise.

i fear my evil end.....

 

[Hulk]

Wasn't Satan/Shaytan in the same position?

Shaitaan was overcame by his own arrogance when he was commanded to prostrate before Adam(pbuh). If you want bring up what you say, then you can say that Adam and Hawa(peace be upon them) were in the same position as well since they did indeed make a mistake which they repented for. Keep in mind that the people of Jannah that started out in the dunya will be the ones that have Taqwa, not any random person nor someone full of arrogance(like iblis) for that matter.

Good point - have you ever read Paradise Lost by John Milton, the 17th century English poet? There is a very famous line in it from Satan, who explains why he has rebelled: "Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven." Obviously he is the bad guy (in this poem as well as in theology) but there is something fundamental about the human spirit in that line. As has been said by many commentators, Milton has (wholly unintentionally) made Satan the most interesting character in the story.

Is this not part of being human? The bad as well as the good?

I've heard the line a few times and actually it fits better with possibly the christian view(makes sense as the writer is likely more familiar with christianity) than the muslim view which is

1. Satan does not reign in hell.
2. His disobedience was out of arrogance because he felt he was superior to Adam. Not because he did not want to serve in heaven.

I believe that the "fundamental human spirit" you are thinking of is arrogance/pride. It is part of the human being and often makes him believe that his status is higher than what it really is. It can cause people who are wrong to refuse to admit that they are wrong, it can cause people to oppress others over the smallest mistake, etc.

Interestingly, Islam means submission. Right from the beginning it reminds you that to leave aside arrogance and submit to your Creator. Part of how muslims pray is by placing their forehead on the ground, a very humble position for the human being.

Then there is this hadith

'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "No one who has an atom's weight of pride in his heart will enter the Garden." A man said, "And if the man likes his clothes to be good and his sandals to be good?" He said, "Allah is Beautiful and loves beauty. Pride means to renounce the truth and abase people." [Muslim]

 

[glo]

Enjoying this thread. :statisfie

 

[aamirsaab]

I never thought I'd read a thread complaining about heaven...


Anyway, I'll provide some food for thought on the deficiency/weakness of mankind that I believe is quite relevant. Our greatest weakness as human beings is, for whatever reason (be it medical, psychological or w.e), we tend to forget things. That forgetfulness leads to mistakes which leads to consequences.

In addition to the above:
From what I can remember regarding Paradise, our soul is the same as it is on Earth but we essentially have a completely different body, free from any faults etc. So this would include not being forgetful; having a healthy (for lack of a better term) psyche and also having a perfectly working moral compass

So based on all of that, I believe we'd have keep our free will in heaven. Just without any nasty side effects. With our new bodies in heaven there's no case of superiority complex; no jealousy (no need for social approval [required for us as human beings, on Planet Earth - not so much in Heaven], we wouldn't feel the need to "keep up with the Jones'"); no deficiencies in our physical or mental health; no reliance on others (since we can access things literally on demand...beat that virgin Media!); no need to confirm (again, something that is quite essential to us on Earth but not so on heaven due to previously mentioned info) and so on and so forth. So we'd be hardwired in such a way that any potential propensity for committing a crime or wrong-doing, wouldn't even exist in our bodies (again, we have these base propensities in our Earth bodies for psychological and sociological reasons - but they only cause a problem when we act upon them in the "wrong" way. These reasons aren't needed in Heaven, so our Perfect bodies wouldn't need/have them)

Basically, we have new, "perfect", bodies in heaven, but our soul would remain the same (so it'd still be us...just in perfect form. You know what, here's a picture of perfect form cell for predominantly tangenial reasons. And also because I like Cell. Oh and because I mentioned "perfect" a couple of times: Clicketh upon me!

At the same time, without our "negative" side, our perfect bodies would therefore be fully content with everything we have in heaven. Again, this would essentially eliminate any propensity for wrong doings or crimes etc. And since we would be so content with what we have, we wouldn't get bored of it.

And that's as far as my pseudo-psychological theory can go on this topic. Hope it made sense. If not, I hope you at least smiled/laughed at one point. If nothing of the sort has happened during the time it took you to read this post, here's some freakin' flowers!

 

[Pygoscelis]

I have discussed this topic elsewhere and one person I spoke to about it pondered thusly:

If we become so much "better" in heaven that we are no longer recognizable as ourselves, even to ourselves, then in what sense is it true to say that WE go to heaven? Something is in heaven for which we provided the raw materials, but is it really us?

 

[crimsontide06]

I understand the question but shouldn't we be worried more about even if we individually will even be in heaven???

Let's work on that first before talking about what we will or won't be doing in heaven. Thanks, have a nice weekend.

 

[Signor]

Basically, we have new, "perfect", bodies in heaven, but our soul would remain the same (so it'd still be us...just in perfect form.

It reminds me of this Hadith:

The Prophet said, "Paradise and the Fire (Hell) argued, and the Fire (Hell) said, 'I have been given the privilege of receiving the arrogant and the tyrants.' Paradise said, 'What is the matter with me? Why do only the weak and the humble among the people enter me?' On that, Allah said to Paradise, 'You are My Mercy which I bestow on whoever I wish of my servants.' Then Allah said to the (Hell) Fire, 'You are my (means of) punishment by which I punish whoever I wish of my slaves. And each of you will have its fill.' As for the Fire (Hell), it will not be filled till Allah puts His Foot over it whereupon it will say, 'Qati! Qati!' At that time it will be filled, and its different parts will come closer to each other; and Allah will not wrong any of His created beings. As regards Paradise, Allah will create a new creation to fill it with."Sahih Bukhari 6:373

But since

And that's as far as my pseudo-psychological theory can go on this topic.

I can't be sure enough!!

 

[aamirsaab]

I have discussed this topic elsewhere and one person I spoke to about it pondered thusly:

If we become so much "better" in heaven that we are no longer recognizable as ourselves, even to ourselves, then in what sense is it true to say that WE go to heaven? Something is in heaven for which we provided the raw materials, but is it really us?

Well if you believe in the concept of the soul, this is all moot since in heaven our soul remains.

But if you don't, here's a counter argument:
Are you the same person you were 10, 20 years ago? Would you consider yourself a "better", almost unrecognisable person since then? Has your body itself not changed considerably? Are you really still you?

(Yay for existentialism!)

 

[Muhaba]

Good point - have you ever read Paradise Lost by John Milton, the 17th century English poet? There is a very famous line in it from Satan, who explains why he has rebelled: "Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven." Obviously he is the bad guy (in this poem as well as in theology) but there is something fundamental about the human spirit in that line. As has been said by many commentators, Milton has (wholly unintentionally) made Satan the most interesting character in the story.

Is this not part of being human? The bad as well as the good?

Humans are serving others in every stage in life. When you work for a high salary, you're selling your freedom for the money. You work for your boss slaving yourself, at times tolerating your boss/superiors' anger instead of lashing back at them for the sake of your job. All this is done so you can afford a better life instead of having to endure living in hell. You want comfort, luxury, and happiness and would have them at any cost instead of poverty, hunger, and a life of anxiety. Thus it's not true that life in hell is better than servitude in heaven.

Satan was arrogant and disobedient. Nothing justifies Satan's actions.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Everybody always hating on Satan.

 

[greenhill]

Don't know really.

I reckon 'free will' concept only applies to earth.
First because Allah is unseen so the threats seen 'far'.
Second, Allah imposed restrictions.

That lead to people being tempted by choices to demand free will. And in doing so, they follow the footsteps of Satan.

I suppose in heaven, there would be no restrictions, so what is there to consider free will?

 

[Muhaba]

Everybody always hating on Satan.

What's wrong with that? Satan deserves to be is despised. He's the cause of so much suffering on earth.
Satan isn't faithful to anyone. He is mankind's enemy and will always try to lead mankind to ruin, even those who are Satans "friends."

 

[~Zaria~]

Greetings,

Allah (subhanawataála) tells us in His glorious Quraan:


وَنَزَعْنَا مَا فِي صُدُورِهِم مِّنْ غِلٍّ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهِمُ الْأَنْهَارُ ۖ وَقَالُوا الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي هَدَانَا لِهَٰذَا وَمَا كُنَّا لِنَهْتَدِيَ لَوْلَا أَنْ هَدَانَا اللَّهُ ۖ لَقَدْ جَاءَتْ رُسُلُ رَبِّنَا بِالْحَقِّ ۖ وَنُودُوا أَن تِلْكُمُ الْجَنَّةُ أُورِثْتُمُوهَا بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

"And We shall remove from their hearts any lurking sense of injury (/resentment/ rancour/ ill-feeling);


beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: "Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: "Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness)." [Surat Al-Áraf 7:43]



As muslims, we have complete trust and faith in all that has been revealed by Allah.
And, we are aware that there are many aspects to both this life and the next, that has not been revealed to us, by the wisdom of Allah.

For a believer, the above verse is sufficient for us, in describing the state of the inhabitants of paradise.

There is not much benefit in delving further into these types of questions as:
1. It results in endless debates about matters of the unseen (for which our knowledge is limited to that, which has been revealed by Allah (subhanawata'la) and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) ).

2. It wastes precious time - which could be utilized in preparing for this eternal life.


So, let us instead, spend this time making actual provisions to reach Jannah, by means of worship, zikrullah (remembrance of Allah) and performing good deeds - as Jannah is not a guarantee for any of us.


(For the atheists on this forum, who do not believe in a Creator.....and hence do not believe in a Paradise, this question should be of even less consequence.
A good starting point would be to first find belief in Allah - before trying to criticize the wisdom behind His creation in both the worlds).


Peace


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