freedom of speech

[Nico]

to al-zaaree so it is okay for them to use language that insults me but i am not allowed to ilsult them. double standards.

 

[------]

:salamext:

Have. You. Read. Bro. Qatada's. Thread.

Answer. My. Question.

 

[جوري]

actually i know who my father

Oh cool so he didn't take off with 3 bar maids, leaving your mama to gamble her life saving with just enough to get you dice pimp shoes an afro and leopard skirt so everyone can have a look at your cheap little burried treasure while you stand in red light district? only to leave you a quid on the counter for services tendered the next day? You know for more liquor on the table?

See it is so easy to be as low as you.. go ahead keep it up...

 

[boriqee]

to al-zaaree so it is okay for them to use language that insults me but i am not allowed to ilsult them. double standards.

im dealing with you now, forget about everyone else

i will treat you the way you treat me. I'll be the reaction to whatever you act on, can you handle that. if so, then please, lets start with what is on your mind with regards to your opposition to islam

plain and simple, no strings attached

 

[Nico]

to al-zaaree as request a list of things about islam that defy logic:
1. allowing sex with children
2. abuse and ill treatment of women.
3. hyprocrisy and double standards.
4. encouraging violence
5. obession with wealth (saudis) and material things whilst fellow muslims (afghans) die of hunger.
6. hatred of african muslims when all muslims are suppose to like each other.

 

[Nico]

yes.i.have.read.qatada's.thread and it contradicts what i have read about this by other MUSLIMS. why would muslims say this if in wasnt true. also i aint an expert on islam and never claim to be. so plaese educate me.

 

[جوري]

Let's have a looksy here in the civilized world what the age of consent was in 1885

Delaware, the age of consent was only seven. Women reformers and advocates of social purity initiated a campaign in 1885 to petition legislators to raise the legal age of consent to at least sixteen, although their ultimate goal was to raise the age to eighteen. The campaign was eventually quite successful; by 1920

source!
http://womhist.alexanderstreet.com/teacher/aoc.htm


as for abuse of women.. perhaps you shouldn't speak for people you know jack about... in general I think you know jack period... but you are no humanist.. you are just another under educated moron with a keyboard!

 

['Abd al-Baari]

MISCONCEPTION #1:
Muslims are violent, terrorists and/or extremists.


This is the biggest misconception in Islam, no doubt resulting from
the constant stereotyping and bashing the media gives Islam. When a
gunman attacks a mosque in the name of Judaism, a Catholic IRA
guerrilla sets off a bomb in an urban area, or Serbian Orthodox
militiamen rape and kill innocent Muslim civilians, these acts are not
used to stereotype an entire faith. Never are these acts attributed
to the religion of the perpetrators. Yet how many times have we heard
the words 'Islamic, Muslim fundamentalist. etc.' linked with violence.

Politics in so called "Muslim countries" may or may not have any
Islamic basis. Often dictators and politicians will use the name of
Islam for their own purposes. One should remember to go to the source
of Islam and separate what the true religion of Islam says from what
is portrayed in the media. Islam literally means 'submission to God'
and is derived from a root word meaning 'peace'.

Islam may seem exotic or even extreme in the modern world. Perhaps
this is because religion doesn't dominate everyday life in the West,
whereas Islam is considered a 'way of life' for Muslims and they make
no division between secular and sacred in their lives. Like
Christianity, Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of
religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly
from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include
prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops,
trees and livestock.

NOWHERE DOES ISLAM ENJOIN THE KILLING OF INNOCENTS.. The Quran says:
"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not
transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." (Quran 2:190)
"If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is
the One that heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 8:61) War,
therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous
conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term 'jihad' literally
means 'struggle'. Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad.
The other 'jihad' is the inner struggle of the soul which everyone
wages against egotistic desires for the sake of attaining inner
peace.



MISCONCEPTION #2:
Islam oppresses women.

The image of the typical Muslim woman wearing the veil and forced to
stay home and forbidden to drive is all too common in most peoples
thoughts. Although some Muslim countries may have laws that oppress
women, this should not be seen as coming from Islam. Many of these
countries do not rule by any kind of Shari'ah (Islamic law) and
introduce their own cultural standpoints on the issue of gender
equity.

Islam on the other hand gives men and women different roles and equity
between the two is laid down in the Quran and the example of the
Prophet (peace be upon him). Islam sees a woman, whether single or
married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and
dispose of her property and earnings. A marriage gift is given by
the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her
own family name rather than taking her husband's. Both men and women
are expected to dress in a way that is modest and dignified. The
Messenger of God (peace be upon him) said: "The most perfect in faith
amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his
wife."

Violence of any kind towards women and forcing them against their
will for anything is not allowed. A Muslim marriage is a simple, legal
agreement in which either partner is free to include conditions.
Marriage customs thus vary widely from country to country. Divorce is
not common, although it is acceptable as a last resort. According to
Islam, a Muslim girl cannot be forced to marry against her will: her
parents simply suggest young men they think may be suitable.

MISCONCEPTION #9:
Muhammad was the founder of Islam and Muslims worship him.


Muhammad(pbuh) was born in Mecca in the year 570. Since his father
died before his birth, and his mother shortly afterwards, he was
raised by his uncle from the respected tribe of Quraysh. As he grew
up, he became known for his truthfulness, generosity and sincerity, so
that he was sought after for his ability to arbitrate in disputes.
The historians describe him as calm and meditative. Muhammad (pbuh)
was of a deeply religious nature, and had long detested the decadence
of his society.

It became his habit to meditate from time to time in the Cave of Hira
near Mecca. At the age of 40, while engaged in a meditative retreat,
Muhammad(pbuh) received his first revelation from God through the
Angel Gabriel. This revelation, which continued for 23 years is
known as the Quran. As soon as he began to recite the words he heard
from Gabriel, and to preach the truth which God had revealed to him,
he and his small group of followers suffered bitter persecution,
which grew so fierce that in the year 622 God gave them the command to
emigrate.

This event, the Hijra 'migration', in which they left Mecca for the
city of Medina, marks the beginning of the Muslim calendar. After
several years, the Prophet and his followers were able to return to
Mecca, where they forgave their enemies and established Islam
definitively. Before the Prophet saw dies at the age of 63, the
greater part of Arabia was Muslim, and within a century of his death
Islam had spread to Spain in the West and as far East as China. He
died with less than 5 possessions to his name.

While Muhammad (pbuh) was chosen to deliver the message, he is not
considered the "founder" of Islam, since Muslims consider Islam to be
the same divine guidance sent to all peoples before. Muslims believe
all the prophets from Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus etc. were all sent
with divine guidance for their peoples. Every prophet was sent to his
own people, but Muhammad(pbuh) was sent to all of mankind. Muhammad
is the last and final messenger sent to deliver the message of Islam.
Muslims revere and honor him (pbuh) for all he went through and his
dedication, but they do not worship him. "O Prophet, verily We have
sent you as a witness and a bearer of glad tidings and a warner and
as one who invites unto God by His leave and as an illuminating
lamp."(33:45-6)

Source

 

[Nico]

tahnkyou for that abdullah you have educated me on some matters. but if these countries are doing this aginst islamic law then why arnt muslims standing up and fight against it istead of fighting aginst the west as this is causing harm to islam.

 

[Woodrow]

to al-zaaree so it is okay for them to use language that insults me but i am not allowed to ilsult them. double standards.

Double Standards??????

You may not have noticed this is an Islamic forum. Our purpose is to show the truth of Islam. It is not our intent nor desire to promote any religion except Islam. We do our best to operate under Islamic standards, which does included fair treatment of non-Muslims.

However, we are human, we do have emotions, we do feel pain and we do show anger when people say derogatory things about what we believe and love.

At the moment your posts seem to be a slightly veiled method of expressing your dislike of Muslims and Islam. Accept the simple fact, people will answer out of anger when they feel what they hold dear is being blasphemed.

At the moment, you are acting like an invader with the intent to destroy our beliefs. It should be no surprise that some are meeting your words defensively.

I try to be a very tolerant person. However, I do have a limit as to how much I will permit any member to do. I do not desire to see any more anti-Islamic comments on this thread.

 

['Abd al-Baari]

tahnkyou for that abdullah you have educated me on some matters.

No probs, glad to have helped (finally )

 

[Nico]

to pureambrosia you are talking about a different era. yes men did alot of things hundreds of years ago that we consider inhumane today. yes along time ago women were not treated an equal to men in west and today that is still the case to an extent. but things have changed alot since the age of the suffergettes...... the fact is that the suicide rate amongst muslim women is much higher than non muslim. i think that is because they are represseda and abused. in a muslim country a women gets raped and needs 4 male witnesses to get a confiction. hoe is this right and why aint you fighting against it ir it is against islamic law. afterall these are your mothers, sisters and daughters.

 

[Nico]

to abdullah what about the rest of my questions

 

[Woodrow]

tahnkyou for that abdullah you have educated me on some matters. but if these countries are doing this aginst islamic law then why arnt muslims standing up and fight against it istead of fighting aginst the west as this is causing harm to islam.

that is a very good question and is often asked. We do very much to speak out against terrorism. Sadly the media seldom hears our words.

Please check these sites,

http://www.m-a-t.org/

This next link actually is a site with several hundred Islamic Organizations that are fighting terrorism.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

 

[Nico]

to woodrow i know this sounds clique but some of my best friends are muslim and i dated a muslim guy a few years ago. despite what you think i dont aint muslims, i just aint hypocrisy. i respect peoples beleifs as long as they dont try and force it on me and as long as they practice what they preach.

 

[islamirama]

Nico,

you seem to have confused islam with culture, which is not always based on religion.

Hitler, jeffery dhommer, timothy mcveigh, and child molesting priests are all christians, should we blame Christianity for their actions?

 

[ummzayd]

in a muslim country a women gets raped and needs 4 male witnesses to get a confiction. hoe is this right and why aint you fighting against it ir it is against islamic law. afterall these are your mothers, sisters and daughters.

do you know what the conviction rate for rape is in this country, the UK? it is under 5%. FIVE PERCENT. that is pretty shocking. what are you doing about it?

peace

 

[boriqee]

thank you

as for

1. allowing sex with children

Islam does not allow sex with children, Islam allows sexual activity to take place when a human reaches the age of sexual acitivity i.e. puberty
that is why in the history of the universe before the rise of modern american history (everythign after 1950) once a female received her period, she is and was considered a WOMEN likewise once a boy hit puberty, he was by default regarded as a man

2. abuse and ill treatment of women

There is no textual basis for this concept in Islam even or whether in weak reports or even fabricated reports. Basically this is a concoction of 20th century tabloid jounalism

3. hyprocrisy and double standards.

Regarding explaining Islam, it is upon unanimous agreement of all islamic authorities that there is a demarcation 9that means difference) between Islam, and muslims, meaning that which muslims do (in their actions) cannot always and neccessarily be deemed as Islamic and likewise anything Islamic does not mean as a default that muslims are going to abide by it. So really this observation is form the point of view of muslims, not about Islam itself. With that being the case all nations can and actually fall into muhc more magnified version of hipocrisy and double standards much more deceptively than muslims ever could.

4. encouraging violence

Again, there is no textual basis with even deemed weak or fabricated islamic reports to hint to this assumption that 20th century tabloid jounalism has undoubtedly ben spoon feeding you westerners day in and day out.

5. obession with wealth (saudis) and material things whilst fellow muslims (afghans) die of hunger.

again this has to do with the actions of muslims, not somethign that Islam 'lesilates" for the muslims. Please if you have qualms with Islam, then please bring them, Im not in the service of defending Islam to defend muslims in their actions, but rather Islam itself. please keep it Islam bound and not people bound.

6. hatred of african muslims when all muslims are suppose to like each other.

in all of my years of being muslims, I never heard of this, again as is with the other points, is related to actions of muslims, which to me, and the reality between our querall with you, has nothing to do with the actual querall itself, but merely a reason to oppose islam itself.

is there anything else

 

[Nico]

to woodrow i am not talking about terrorism. i am talking about why arnt you fighting against these laws that opress women when they go against islamic law. surely if something goes against islamic law then as a good muslim you are suppose to fight against it. i just think that if muslims put as much effort in to change things like this as they doing into fighting the west they peoples opinion of islam would change.

 

[Woodrow]

to woodrow i know this sounds clique but some of my best friends are muslim and i dated a muslim guy a few years ago. despite what you think i dont aint muslims, i just aint hypocrisy. i respect peoples beleifs as long as they dont try and force it on me and as long as they practice what they preach.

That is what we all want. We all need to be empathetic to the fact that our words can be like a knife cut, if perceived wrongly.