freedom of speech

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Nico said:
the pureambrosia i cant comment on christainity or judism as i know little about it.... also i know when the prohet married aisha it was centuries ago when that sort of thing was common place. but in this day and age when we know right from wrong how can you still worship such a man when you should be condeming his actions. and actualkly if you look at you history you will see that arabs started the salve trade of africans not whites.
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Now, that's interesting. Could you elaborate?:)
 
a graph of Muslim demographics across the globe.. from the Christian research journal!

 
no ummzayd other muslims that i have read on the internet or seen on youtube. not my friends who are muslim. you havent asnwered my question about whether you would let your 6 year old daughter be thighed by a 53 year old man. and yes i do think girls that young having sex will be emothionally damaged and not just the immuture ones. i'm sure are muslim pshycologic on her will agree.
 
Purest, are you sure there are 1,86 billion muslims out there? where did you aquire this information.
I'm asking because I find it a bit high and because some LI users have claimed there are 300 million muslims in China, which is false.
 
:sl:

If you have ready any of the links that bro - Qatada - and myself had posted then you will have read that although they were married when Aishah was 9 years old not six, also by that age Aishah was fully develped physically and mentally, which she said so hereself :)

Aishah, may God be pleased with her, narrated that the Prophet(P) was betrothed (zawaj) to her when she was six years old and he consummated (nikah) his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years. (Sahîh al-Bukhârî, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)

Historically, the age at which a girl was considered ready to be married has been puberty. This was the case in Biblical times, as we will discuss below, and is still used to determine the age of marriage in what the culturally arrogant West calls "primitive societies" throughout the world. As the ahâdîth about cAishah's age show, her betrothal took place at least three years before the consummation of the marriage. The reason for this was that they were waiting for her to come of age (i.e. to have her first menstrual period). Puberty as a biological sign shows that a women is capable of bearing children. Can anyone logically deny this? Part of the wisdom behind the Prophet's marriage to cAishah just after she reached puberty is to firmly establish this as a point of Islamic Law, even though it was already cultural norm in all Semitic societies (including the one Jesus(P) grew up in). The large majority of Islamic jurists say that the earliest time a marriage can be consummated is on the onset sexual maturity (bulugh), meaning puberty. Since this was the norm of all Semitic cultures and it still is the norm of many cultures today: it is certainly not something that Islam invented. However, widespread opposition to such a Divinely revealed and accepted historical norm is certainly something that is relatively new.
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Source http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html
 
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Nico said:
the pureambrosia i cant comment on christainity or judism as i know little about it.... also i know when the prohet married aisha it was centuries ago when that sort of thing was common place. but in this day and age when we know right from wrong how can you still worship such a man when you should be condeming his actions. and actualkly if you look at you history you will see that arabs started the salve trade of africans not whites.
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1. for one, slavery to the arabs is unlike anything your imperial westerners barbarized it to be. slavery to them was merely workmanship converted in modern conventional understanding. Thus t hey were well fed, kept, and cared for, like a maid in our times. certainyl the west does not condmen the workmanship of maids and butlers. It is onlythe colonial masters whotook slavery into a concept not practiced nor fathomable tot he rest of human societies including the arabs
2. what in this world do you know, or anyone else for that matter, about right and wrong. every 2 years your morals change. in one instant a women having a child outside of wedlook was looked down upon, and a few years later, its 'okay. a few years ago homosexuality is a crime and attrocity, now, after a few years, if you speak ill of it, your a homophobe. such bewildernment in the sea of contradictions in the realm of morale completely turns one off from the western mindset of how life is viewed.
 
to al-izaaree so you would let your 9 year old daughter warry a 60 if she that what she wanted. would you let her drink alohol if that what she wanted. would you let her jump of a cliff if thats what she wanted. NO because you know that is harmeful to her. and before you say no you would because they go against islamic law, then according to some people on this site having sex with children is now codiser against islamic law in this day and age.
 
snakelegs said:
suggestion #2: withhold food.
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dearest sister! are you trying to close down the entertainment business that is LI?

if you stop feeding them, they wont stay and invite more, you will make this a quite peacfull place where only seekers will visit and there can not be as much profit in that as there is in exciting and vibrant argumentatative sites

wa salaam
 
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al-Izaaree said:
1. for one, slavery to the arabs is unlike anything your imperial westerners barbarized it to be. slavery to them was merely workmanship converted in modern conventional understanding. Thus t hey were well fed, kept, and cared for, like a maid in our times. certainyl the west does not condmen the workmanship of maids and butlers. It is onlythe colonial masters whotook slavery into a concept not practiced nor fathomable tot he rest of human societies including the arabs
2. what in this world do you know, or anyone else for that matter, about right and wrong. every 2 years your morals change. in one instant a women having a child outside of wedlook was looked down upon, and a few years later, its 'okay. a few years ago homosexuality is a crime and attrocity, now, after a few years, if you speak ill of it, your a homophobe. such bewildernment in the sea of contradictions in the realm of morale completely turns one off from the western mindset of how life is viewed.
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Morals aren't universal but rather a product of various sociopsychological factors. That's how most atheists/agnostics and a lot of westerners see it.
 
Nico, I missed your initial thread, but take my advice.
The people you are speaking to here are not strapping themselves with explosive belts and planning chemical attacks on orphans. (well only about 10% of them are :) )

Wind your neck in and open discussions with some respect. If your an atheist, then im sure you feel you can debunk Islam. Do so in the refutations section and with respect.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
No girl is fully physicaly and mentally developed at the age of 9.
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speak for yourself, or actually, for your entire century

it is of no wonder that history is repleat with the glroy of men and women who performed feats yet in their or what we would call, their adolecence. there wewre established families were boys would get married at 12 and lead entire battiloions at 14 and lead an entire army at 17.


nico, please give it up, stop hanging on straws here, if you failed to see the logic and reason in the relaity that was visible to the sane, the quite frankly the amount of intellectual in-eptivity you seem to adopt for yourself is unpenetrable
 
this is getting tiresome and I notice you don't bring anything new to the table? your questions have been answered more than adequately.. I notice that not only do you ignore what is written but you seem to decrease saida aisha's age, and look over her previous enagement plus her own desire for marriage.. do you do it for shock value?
truth is marriage hasn't changed but the demands of society have... That is a different story.. I think personally at my age I'd have been a grandmother just a couple of centuries ago not just unmarried.. that was the norm.. If you can't accept that, there is nothing anyone can do about that..
Read a little of history please, the appropriate age of consent across the globe at least 150 years ago, and even that with ancient biblical laws
Although we do not follow this dictum, technically speaking, a girl can be betrothed the moment she is born, and married at the age of three (Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1). A boy can betroth and marry at the age of thirteen (Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 43:1). 1. Talmud Kiddushin 41a.
2. Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1.
3. Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 43:1.


What is the minimum age of marriage according to Jewish law? | AskMoses.com - Judaism, Ask a Rabbi - Live
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do some comparative studies and try to reconcile that with modern day psychology which has you brain washed that the tender age of 27 is apropos for consummation... 'cause even modern psychology can't reconcile why homosexuality was an act of sexual deviance 30 years ago and now is a normal variant.
Perhaps once we learn where you get your values from we can have a more fruitful discussion?!

cheers!
 
anyway this is last post today becuse i am going to bet. as much as i love talking to you lot, i have to be up in the morning for college (yes i am educated believe it or not). i must say some of you have educated me on islam and changed by opinion os islam. however they are some issues which i till condsider wrong and will continue to no matter how you try and justofy it or word you explanantions. we obviously come from two different cultures with very different opinions on morality. one thing i have learnt to day is how thankfull i am that i am an athiest. i dont need religion to tell me right from wrong as i know it deep in my heart. i honestly belive that if the whole world was athiest we would be a peaceful world. religion is not for me and never will be, but if it makes you lot happy then who am i to argue with you. if there is an allah may he bless all of you who are true and guide those of you with hypocrisy and hate in your heats. good night.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Morals aren't universal but rather a product of various sociopsychological factors. That's how most atheists/agnostics and a lot of westerners see it.
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that right there is the fundamental problem that aids to the intellectual in-eptivity to the human physche of a people who never existed before the 18 hundreds as a solidified group i.e. atheists/agnostics.

that fact that it could be conceivable to anyone that morale can change through time is not only preposterous but defies the essence of the human himself, his logic and his reason.

what was wrong in one time is wrong in all times. Killing a man is a moral issue, so in the next 50 years, according to how you westerners are headed down the path of insanity, killing another man can and could be justified. that right there is the problem, you would defend some "moral" as absolute and then deem others as not. I swear by the One who holds the souls of all of us in His Hands, the imorality of killing a man is the same as the imorality of the faget, and is the same as the imorality of the one who disbeleives in the existence of God, and they stand imoral in all times and circumstancces. There is no justicification that justifies one to be morally right to the exclusion of the other. If your going to deem the crimes you have enjoyed as morally acceptable, then you will have to by default do the same for those matters you don
t deem acceptable. there is no double stndard in this regard.
 
Nico said:
the pureambrosia i cant comment on christainity or judism as i know little about it.... also i know when the prohet married aisha it was centuries ago when that sort of thing was common place. but in this day and age when we know right from wrong how can you still worship such a man when you should be condeming his actions. and actualkly if you look at you history you will see that arabs started the salve trade of africans not whites.
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Separate Arab from Islam. Not all Arabs were or are Muslim and most Muslims are not Arab. the pre-Islamic Arabs were very barbaric. Some still exist. Because something is known to come from the Arab world does not automatically mean it is Islamic.

As far as the Prophet(PBUH) marrying Aisha, you need to first understand the Islamic concept of marriage and what it entails. Age of marriage is of no importance. No matter what the age of the marriage is, a marriage can not/will not be physically consummated until both parties are mentally and physically able to freely do so with benefits for both.

As has been stated numerous times we do not worship Muhammad(PBUH) we worship the message he was charged with delivering. We worship the letter, not the mailman.
 
Nico said:
anyway this is last post today becuse i am going to bet. as much as i love talking to you lot, i have to be up in the morning for college (yes i am educated believe it or not). i must say some of you have educated me on islam and changed by opinion os islam. however they are some issues which i till condsider wrong and will continue to no matter how you try and justofy it or word you explanantions. we obviously come from two different cultures with very different opinions on morality. one thing i have learnt to day is how thankfull i am that i am an athiest. i dont need religion to tell me right from wrong as i know it deep in my heart. i honestly belive that if the whole world was athiest we would be a peaceful world. religion is not for me and never will be, but if it makes you lot happy then who am i to argue with you. if there is an allah may he bless all of you who are true and guide those of you with hypocrisy and hate in your heats. good night.
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if the whole world was atheists from the get go we would not have survived past the age of first recorded history.

all atheism is is another religion of which people wdeclare their adherence and enmity based on it, thus wars of catastrophic proportions would have consumded the existence of mankind.

besides how on earth do you think you landed at where you at today. it was religion that brought the world into the age it is in now and it is religiont hat will continue to progress it by the will of God to the limits of human progression until the time is established on man.
 
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