God/Allah working in our lives

[جوري]

the verse
And there is none like unto Him.] (Al-Ikhlas 112
should really answer your Q.. why must you bring God down to a low common denominator?

 

[Follower]

GOD's Spirit comes to me when I need Him- comforting and reassuring. I am very much at peace because of GOD's Spirit. My world can be falling and failing around me but I am happy and at peace. He gives me insight when I study religion.

 

[malayloveislam]

Reading this thread I am getting a new sense of my Muslim's friends understanding of God. On this forum I see many people talk about religious isses and refer to them as spiritual issues. But in this thread, it seems that I am being told that not only are spirit beings creations of Allah -- I can understand that -- but that Allah is therefore himself not a spiritual being. Am I understanding correctly?

So, and this may simply be a badly formed question, but the best I can do right now, what sort of "being" is Allah? He is not a material being. He is not a spiritual being. What other sorts of beings are there? I thought that those two terms, when taken together, were pretty much all inclusive of every type of being that exists.

Peace

Allah is unimaginable by human mind and thinking, He has no image in our mind while we are still in the Earth. He is the most Highest above all. He is the Creator of the Universe. He is Holy. It is simple to say that He is the Creator, the G-d whose the only One worth to be worshiped and honored. Even His names are Holy can't be chanted in filthy and dirty places. We should not question His image because it is sacred can't be reached by human lowly thinking.

 

[Danah]

......what sort of "being" is Allah? He is not a material being. He is not a spiritual being. What other sorts of beings are there? I thought that those two terms, when taken together, were pretty much all inclusive of every type of being that exists.

He is beyond our understanding and imagination....there is nothing like him, he is all mighty. Our limited human understanding cant match such greatness and complication even if we spent our whole life trying to find out that

this another verse may answer your question as well:

Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer [11:42]

 

[Grace Seeker]

the verse
And there is none like unto Him.] (Al-Ikhlas 112
should really answer your Q.. why must you bring God down to a low common denominator?

Peace

Allah is unimaginable by human mind and thinking, He has no image in our mind while we are still in the Earth. He is the most Highest above all. He is the Creator of the Universe. He is Holy. It is simple to say that He is the Creator, the G-d whose the only One worth to be worshiped and honored. Even His names are Holy can't be chanted in filthy and dirty places. We should not question His image because it is sacred can't be reached by human lowly thinking.

He is beyond our understanding and imagination....there is nothing like him, he is all mighty. Our limited human understanding cant match such greatness and complication even if we spent our whole life trying to find out that

this another verse may answer your question as well:

Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer [11:42]

I totally agree that there is none like Allah. But we do make comparisons.

• He is almighty, omnipotent -- a comparison of Allah's might to all other examples of might and power.
• He is merciful -- we understand this because we have experienced mercy in our lives at the hands of not just Allah, but various people as well.
• He is all knowing -- I can only understand this because I know what it is to know something. No being other than a sapient being could ever declare Allah to be all knowing.

So, I don't see that making comparisons in anyway denigrates the nature of character of Allah. And while I don't believe that my imagination is even remotely capable of fully imagining the nature and character of God, still we each do form some sort of construct by which we conceive of him. If we didn't, we wouldn't even be capable of talking about him to others. So, to say that he is beyond our imagination and our understanding needs to be understood in context. It does not mean that we are incapable of thinking about God, only that we can't reach the conclusion that our understanding of him is inclusive of all there is to know with regard to him.

Further to say that Allah is, is to say that he is a being. From the Qur'an I know that he is an ominopotent being, a compassionate being, a knowing being. And making those statements with regard to Allah does not imply that he is any less because you or I might also be described as having some limited form of knowledge, compassion, or personal power. There are also some things that I know (or at least suppose) are not true about Allah. He is not greedy. He is not unfair. He is not a material being. But my question remains, from the perspective of those on this board would it be true or untrue to say that Allah is a spiritual being?

(And, please, don't take this as a question somehow connected with the Christian understanding of Holy Spirit, I don't mean that or anything close to it at all. Nor is this a statement about Allah being a created being. For, in my mind at least, it is entirely possible for Allah to be both the creator and a spiritual being; they are not mutually exclusive. But I am asking here, because it may be that Muslims see them as not being reconcilable and I am trying to find out.)

 

[جوري]

those aren't the nature of Allah, those are attributes that Allah swt wishes us to know about him, whereby we as individuals can relate and understand them.
Nowhere in them does it say God is flesh, or God is sentience or God is a spirit.

God only sets parables for us, but we can't conceive the being of God... I think perhaps that is why, western people often think and speak of God as if he were their high school coach, there is no reverence whatsoever!


another parable:

[24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass; the glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West, whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

 

[Grace Seeker]

OK, so God is not spirit. (Do other Muslims agree with Skye?)

So, why do Muslims use the phrase, "spiritual things" when refering talking about Allah? How can talking about Allah be talking about spiritual things if Allah is not a spiritual being? Is it just imprecise language or is there more that I am not understanding?



Also, would it be fair to say that Allah is an eternal being?

 

[جوري]

OK, so God is not spirit. (Do other Muslims agree with Skye?)

So, why do Muslims use the phrase, "spiritual things" when refering talking about Allah? How can talking about Allah be talking about spiritual things if Allah is not a spiritual being? Is it just imprecise language or is there more that I am not understanding?

why don't we shift gear and you tell us where in the Quran and Sunna God is described as a 'spiritual being'?

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

why don't we shift gear and you tell us where in the Quran and Sunna God is described as a 'spiritual being'?

all the best

Because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to learn something. I'm trying to learn how you and other Muslims understand this. I'm accepting what you are saying at face value. But it is new to my ears, even after all of this time on this board. I suppose that is why I stay. I still have things to learn. Until this thread, I thought that Muslims conceived of God as a spiritual being. Not as a created being, but a being who existed as a spiritual entity. So, if I have been wrong, I need to find out what other assumptions that are linked to that way of think that I also need to erase. I need to find out how much of it is language, how much of it is presumption on my part, and how much of it is theological baggage I carry with me from my own way of talking about God.

So, I expect to have a lot more questions than answers for a period of time.


And do you have an answer to my question about whether or not Allah can be referred to as an eternal being?

 

[جوري]

God is THE only eternal being!

If you have quotes from the Quran or Sunna as I have requested above that describe God as a spiritual being or a human being, then pls bring it. I can't rally go on by what you allege people conceive God to be!

all the best

 

[Obiwan]

Allah is eternal and this is mentioned in Baqara, 255: الله هو الحي القيوم - Allah, He is Ever-Living and Eternal

As for the question if Allah is a spritiual being or not, it depends on what you mean by spirituality. If you mean being good, fair, acting always in a right way for the benefit of yourself and for the benefit of all the creation - then Allah is unparalleled embodiment of all this. Why unparalleled? Because the human knowledge and his perceptions are limited whereas Allah is All-Knowing and All-Capable (علي كل شيء قدير)

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

How does this creator create? Since He is self-sufficient, He cannot be said to depend on anything outside Himself in any actions, and cannot therefore be said to produce His effects the way natural causes do. But if He is not a natural cause, He must be a volitional agent. And since intention implies knowledge, and knowledge and intention imply life, he must be a living being. Since He is an eternal and everlasting being, all His attributes must reflect this quality; thus He must be not only knowing, but All-Knowing, not only powerful, but All-Powerful, etc.

 

[glo]

Because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to learn something. I'm trying to learn how you and other Muslims understand this. I'm accepting what you are saying at face value. But it is new to my ears, even after all of this time on this board. I suppose that is why I stay. I still have things to learn. Until this thread, I thought that Muslims conceived of God as a spiritual being. Not as a created being, but a being who existed as a spiritual entity. So, if I have been wrong, I need to find out what other assumptions that are linked to that way of think that I also need to erase. I need to find out how much of it is language, how much of it is presumption on my part, and how much of it is theological baggage I carry with me from my own way of talking about God.

I agree with Grace Seeker.
This thread is giving me a whole new perspective of who Muslims perceive Allah to be.

After all this time here in LI I hadn't expected to find what I have learned so far in this thread so surprising.

Can I go back to my question if any of you can share with me how you perceive Allah to direct/guide you in your daily lives?
Through the following of the Qu'ran and Hadiths?
Through sensing a direct divina guidance - as if prompted by somebody outside your own being?
Through dreams and visions?
Through following the advice given by other, more knowledgeable Muslims?
Through emotions stirred up whilst praying?
Any, all or none of those?

Peace

 

[GreyKode]

Okay glo, here is how I personally am affected by ALLAH(swt),
When I am sleeping and I hear the call for prayer(particularly the dawn prayer), I keep telling myself just keep sleeping and you can pray later, but then I remember my loving God ALLAH(swt) and I feel some sort of embarrassment and shame of how while he can see me at this moment I just wanna forget him and ignore all the favors he has bestowed upon me and ignore the call for prayer, so I just flip out of bed like crazy, although feeling extremely sleepy I fight myself to get to the bathroom to perform ablution and while doing so I can tell that ALLAH(swt) through his compassion is happy
and pleased about my struggle, so I feel happy.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

GOD's Spirit comes to me when I need Him- comforting and reassuring. I am very much at peace because of GOD's Spirit. My world can be falling and failing around me but I am happy and at peace. He gives me insight when I study religion.

{Say, "What would my Lord care for you if not for your supplication?" For you have denied, so your denial is going to be adherent.}[al-Furqan; 77]

Can I go back to my question if any of you can share with me how you perceive Allah to direct/guide you in your daily lives?

{O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers.}[Yunus; 57]

I have the Qur'an, the Word of Allaah with me. Anything I need, I look into it and I find true Divine Guidance in it for all my affairs without exaggeration. It is the core of any believer.

 

[coddles76]

OK, so God is not spirit. (Do other Muslims agree with Skye?)

So, why do Muslims use the phrase, "spiritual things" when refering talking about Allah? How can talking about Allah be talking about spiritual things if Allah is not a spiritual being? Is it just imprecise language or is there more that I am not understanding?



Also, would it be fair to say that Allah is an eternal being?

Allah SWT has given us the faculty of understanding and he has also granted us with the powerful use of our brain, the feelings of the heart and the sense of the soul. Allah SWT does not need to send his SO CALLED spirit in order for us to remember him and have his influence in our lives. As muslims we worship Allah SWT throughout the day with prayers and supplication. Sending his spirit to remind us of him all the time would mean we all have to have a spirit 24HRS a day, which I believe is what christians believe. If that is the case, then our Souls, Heart and Mind are not in control of our sense in Allah SWT. We would have to wait for our designated spirit to remind us. I would much prefer the muslim view in that Allah SWT is on my mind and eases my heart and soul whenever I need him. He is the almighty, the ONE the only and there is none like him. He watches over me, he hears my prayers and sees my actions of goodness.

 

[malayloveislam]

Peace Grace Seeker

Do you mean His spirit as His angels? Or His spirit Himself? If you mean He is the One who came to Earth it means that we had degrading Him. There is no such spirit or physical form of G-d. Those things only suits creations, G-d is different, He resembles no one. We do not know how does His image look like, and it is sacred, our mind is bounded and He is unlimited. He is the Highest Power, why should He come to this filthy place? On the other hand, He can be everywhere, we do not know where He is, and it is not our problem. Plus He can monitor us everyday, anywhere without the help of those angels. They are the slaves just like us but in metaphysical form, they too have to worship Allah and obey Him. Those angels too will eventually die because they were created not the Creator. The Creator is Eternal, Boundless, Not bounded and limited by space, time, period, desires, etc. Human-being are bounded.

Muslims are taught through the scripture that Angels and Genie are in metaphysical forms. Angels are created from Lights, while Genies from Extremely hot fire. Human had physical body for they were created from Earth element which is from the dirty black mud with the spirit (soul, breath) in that physical body. Angels and Genies are hidden and can't be seen with human physical eyes, they exist in different dimension. If you think logically and scientifically too, it corresponds. We can't touch the light but we can see in the dark where there is light. We can't touch fire but we can feel the heat from the fire, we also can see fire, but Genies are hidden creature. Genie is from an Arabic term Al-Jinnu means the Hidden for a creation of G-d who are alive, they live just like human. With religions, mind to think and desires. Angels have no desire, they have no choice like G-d had granted to human and genies. Angels only worship, obey, and performing obeisance to Him. You need to do some deep reading and listening to Islamic lectures if you have interest to know about metaphysical things in Islam.

We can still see human mind is limited and bounded when they tried to imagine G-d's image thus many images of G-d being materialized in the form of idols made by wood, stone, food, and etc, while G-d had been imagined as tiger, female, male, wearing crown like a human, elephant, and etc. How do they know what G-d looks like if they never see Him? He is Holy when the Children of Israel forcing prophet Moses (pbuh) praying to G-d to reveal Himself, G-d never reveals Himself to them but only showing a little splash of the light which screening Him and it was directed to a mountain, the mountain then melted. And the stubborn Children of Israel fell down because human-being can't bear seeing Him. By only seeing some light screening Him, Human had died, how come they can bear seeing His Sacred image?

Allah guides us by making our senses sensitive. He opens our heart Himself because He is the One who control our lives by giving free spaces for us to decide. It is His will that we sense guidance and accept it. If He is not willing us to accept His guidance, we will be like those people who cruelly oppose prophet Muhammad, who are Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, and others. They are all close relatives to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and actually his uncles, but they did not sense the guidance or giving any chance to accept it. They were deflected by evil desires such as property, rank, social status, and many things which are also associating G-d and degrading Him because they had been obsessed with those things until closing their eyes to the guidance by G-d.

 

[Woodrow]

Re: Holy Spirit

Thank you for your reply, Woodrow.
And thank you that for the sake of this thread we can consider God's spirit outside the context of the trinity.

I appreciate the wording you use, and I can relate to it well.
"Being filled with God" seems to be very much the same thing which happened to the disciples at Pentecost.

I especially like your concept of "tuning one's own senses to become more aware of the power of God". :statisfie

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Peace

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Yes, but not in the sense of any physical type contact. I believe all knowledge we need to achieve Jannah (Heaven, Salvation Grace etc) has been revealed to all of mankind in the scripures. The Qur'an and all true scriptures can and should be seen and read as being a personal message to each of us. This message does give us the ability to guide us daily, if we take the time to reflect upon the message constantly. The guidance is there. We only need to accept it and not try to make it suit our desires.

Prayer is answered, we only need to be aware of how it is answered.

On a lesser level this can be seen as similar to guidance given to us by our parents, it is always there once given.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

yeh i defo can feel God working in my day to day life

and i depend on him quite a lot...

and he always answers my calls... always... Alhamdulillaah...

 

[glo]

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Yes, but not in the sense of any physical type contact. I believe all knowledge we need to achieve Jannah (Heaven, Salvation Grace etc) has been revealed to all of mankind in the scripures. The Qur'an and all true scriptures can and should be seen and read as being a personal message to each of us. This message does give us the ability to guide us daily, if we take the time to reflect upon the message constantly. The guidance is there. We only need to accept it and not try to make it suit our desires.

Thank you for your explanation, Woodrow.

If I understand you correctly, your experience is that God reveals himself and guides through scripture, as long as we have his words and guidance on our hearts and minds all the time. This seems to refer to the first item on the list I posted previously. (see below)

How much relevance, if any, would you give to the others? (I am numbering them to make referencing easier ...)

Can I go back to my question if any of you can share with me how you perceive Allah to direct/guide you in your daily lives?

1. Through the following of the Qu'ran and Hadiths?
2. Through sensing a direct divine guidance - as if prompted by somebody outside your own being?
3. Through dreams and visions?
4. Through following the advice given by other, more knowledgeable Muslims?
5. Through emotions stirred up whilst praying?
Any, all or none of those?

Peace