God did not sacrifice Jesus

[Sojourn]

A person who believes in God but doubts/disbelieves in religion. I am sure it's the wrong definition.

You sound more like a deist to me. Deism accepts the existence of God but questions whether God interferes or interacts in human existance. Agnosticism is uncertainty whether there is or isn't a a God.

 

[Sojourn]

[h=4]SAHIH INTERNATIONAL[/h][h=2]And @ when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic." Qur'aan 61:6[/h][/FONT][/COLOR] Muhammad :arabic5: is referred to as 'Ahmad' here, they both come from the same root word i believe. Im not knowledgeable enough to debate in comparative religion but i just wanted to put that out there.[/QUOTE] Hi crooked, yes I was referring to a prophecy in the Old Testament as clear as what refers to Jesus in Isaiah 53;

 

[crookedrib]

Yes akhi I heard that. But I also heard that most people have short attention span, so I didn't want to make a lengthy post.

Also sometimes I make a post and I remember something else that ought to be added, which necessitates and other post. [emoji27]

جزاك الله خيرا

Akhi, strivingfordeen is no longer muslim, he has become an apostate. I dont think you can say jazaak Allah khair to him.

 

[Sojourn]

Akhi, strivingfordeen is no longer muslim, he has become an apostate. I dont think you can say jazaak Allah khair to him.

Interesting

 

[M.I.A.]

As I remember it, read somewhere that people say jazaak Allah..

As a way of saying may Allah swt compensate/recompense you for what you have done..

Could be either good or bad.

Although my Arabic is non existent.. And I'm not searching for the thread again.

 

[crookedrib]

As I remember it, read somewhere that people say jazaak Allah..

As a way of saying may Allah swt compensate/recompense you for what you have done..

Could be either good or bad.

Although my Arabic is non existent.. And I'm not searching for the thread again.

I was referring to 'Jazaak Allah khair', meaning May Allah reward you with goodness.

Allahu 'Alam

 

[Sojourn]

Stupid Christian "Logic"

God is Uncreated

Man is Created

They are opposites,

Christians just don't seem to get the absurdities of trying apply opposite natures to God All-mighty,

The presence of one negates the other.

Alhumdulillah, Allah tala saved us
from this Shirk,

Don't Muslims believe the Quran is uncreated?

But a kitab is created.

Is this dumb Muslim logic?

How ironic.

 

[Moshy]

:jz: for sharing.

I see one flaw in the first part of the video. It defines sacrifice, as to give up something you want to keep in order to get or do something else. And the rest of that part is based around that premise, that you sacrifice to get a reward, or something in return. Lets say an atheist sacrifices some of their wealth to help a poor person. Or sacrifices their time to help at an orphanage. They don't believe in God, so aren't expecting to get anything for it or to get any reward. Therefore, if the definition of sacrifice isn't quite right, or actually is wider than that, then the argument made on that point using the limited definition in the video, can't stand strongly, ie the question is asked in the video, was God expecting a reward from Himself?

So I see. You are very right [emoji106] [emoji106]

 

[popsthebuilder]

Peace be upon those who receive guidance!

Another self refuting argument.

Claiming God took Human form is of itself a limitation.

Human beings are limited by nature.

If you refer back to your Bible, whichever version your following, you will see several limitations attributed to Jesus,

This proves he never took Human form.

Regards

Again, I am not a traditionalTrinitarian, but my statement is in no way self refuting. God is without limit. If it so chose to take human form, then it could. Just because it could have chosen to suffer as a man in order to guide whom it chooses, that, in itself does not refute the omnipotence of God or limit God.

Peace.

May God guide all towards his will by his mercy and grace and compassion.

Oh sorry, I am an ex-Christian but do respect the faith and people who understand it.

 

[greenhill]

Lol, what?

Which word should I be careful about?

I believe br. anatolian was referring to this..

And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do (6:108 Sahih International)



eace:

 

[saif-uddin]

Greatest Insult to God All-mighty/Allah tala is to claim he has children ...

Surah Maryam, Ayah 88:
وَقَالُوا اتَّخَذَ الرَّحْمَٰنُ وَلَدًا

And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]."

Surah Maryam, Ayah 89:
لَّقَدْ جِئْتُمْ شَيْئًا إِدًّا

Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

Surah Maryam, Ayah 90:

تَكَادُ السَّمَاوَاتُ يَتَفَطَّرْنَ مِنْهُ وَتَنشَقُّ الْأَرْضُ وَتَخِرُّ الْجِبَالُ هَدًّا

Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,


نعوذ بالله من ذلك

 

[Delphi]

Re: shirk, ect.

This is not what Christians believe, nor is it what my ancestors have believed for the last 2000 years. I am a rationalist atheist but if I were to find my way back to a more "traditional" belief it would be Christianity. You should not dismiss another's right to believe as they will. It is that multicultural right that grants so many muslim refugees safety, wealth, and sanctuary in the rich Northern democracies, which by in large, are (historically) Christian.

 

[anatolian]

Re: shirk, ect.

This is not what Christians believe, nor is it what my ancestors have believed for the last 2000 years. I am a rationalist atheist but if I were to find my way back to a more "traditional" belief it would be Christianity. You should not dismiss another's right to believe as they will. It is that multicultural right that grants so many muslim refugees safety, wealth, and sanctuary in the rich Northern democracies, which by in large, are (historically) Christian.

Salam Delphi. Actually we muslims do not dismiss people's rights to believe as they will. Quran teaches us to respect people regarding their religions as stated above

"And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did" (6:108 M.H. Shakir)

"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing" (2:256 M.H. Shakir)

And of course all those muslim refugees should respect the countries and peoples who opened their borders to them. Not only Christian ones but Muslims welcomed them also as I know from my country Turkey.

But, this is completely a different topic then what we discuss here. We still believe what Christianity teaches is "Shirk (Associating other things with The God)". If a muslim doesnt believe so, he is not a muslim at all. If you have studied the basic tenets of Christianity and Islam, you can understand this.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Salam Delphi. Actually we muslims do not dismiss people's rights to believe as they will. Quran teaches us to respect people regarding their religions as stated above

"And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did" (6:108 M.H. Shakir)

"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing" (2:256 M.H. Shakir)

And of course all those muslim refugees should respect the countries and peoples who opened their borders to them. Not only Christian ones but Muslims welcomed them also as I know from my country Turkey.

But, this is completely a different topic then what we discuss here. We still believe what Christianity teaches is "Shirk (Associating other things with The God)". If a muslim doesnt believe so, he is not a muslim at all. If you have studied the basic tenets of Christianity and Islam, you can understand this.

I study and have a decent grasp on both. Are you trying to say that to be of Islam one must consider all Christianity to be shirk or associate partners or equals to GOD?

 

[anatolian]

I study and have a decent grasp on both. Are you trying to say that to be of Islam one must consider all Christianity to be shirk or associate partners or equals to GOD?

Salam friend. Not all Christianity of course. We have many in common. In fact we have more in common than difference. However I am talking about the basic tenet of the mainstream trinitarian Christian belief. If you ask a trinitarian christian which is the majority of christianity for what is the 'basic tenet' of his religion he will tell you that God incarnated as a man on earth and died on the cross for our sins. And this is shirk for us.

 

[IARLG]

http://aljumaareminder.com/books/

Asalaam alykum all, please download the book below from the link above:

[h=3]THE QURAN CONFIRMS THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS WHO IS A MUSLIM[/h]– by IARLG

[h=4]– 1st Edition – For Muslims and Non-Muslims[/h]‘The Quran confirms the teachings of Jesus who is a Muslim’ is a book dedicated to revealing who Jesus really is and not how the media portrays him to be. Facts about Jesus have been collected from various sources and compiled in this one book.

Think of this book as a ‘Guinness world record book’ which tried to collect the true facts about Jesus from all over the world instead of listing the world records.

Please find the time to read this book as soon as possible before Jesus comes. It would be best to know the truth about Jesus before he returns to earth.

 

[jabeady]

Facts about Jesus have been collected from various sources and compiled in this one book

So, how many sources are there, outside of the Bible?

 

[goodwill]

So, how many sources are there, outside of the Bible?

I'm not familiar with IARLG's material but, according to Frank Turek's book, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist, there are ten non-Christian sources that mention Jesus within 150 years of His life: Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Thallus, Suetonius, Lucian, Celsus, Mara Bar-Serapion, and the Talmud. (There are numerous early Christian sources too, of course.) By contrast, over the same 150 years, there are nine non-Christian sources that mention Tiberius Caesar, the Roman emperor at the time of Jesus.

 

[Al Sultan]

Don't Muslims believe the Quran is uncreated?

But a kitab is created.

Is this dumb Muslim logic?

How ironic.

Stop using words out of context,lol...

First of all,we believe that the Quran was sent down by god through Gabriel (AS) to prophet Mohammed (PBUH)

WE also believe there is nothing like it,its words,its rules,laws,mercy,manners,its not just a book,its a guidebook to life.

"A book is a written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers."

we dont believe the Quran suddenly popped into life from thin air?

its not "dumb muslim logic" the way how you view it is so retarded and silly..

Educate yourself better than talking about things you're not even sure of,because then you'll make yourself look stupid infront of many muslims.

The way how you wrote it made me choke,astakhfirallah..

 

[Al Sultan]

just wow