GOD in the eyes of Science: Possibility or Necessity

[iLL_LeaT]

The new approach of Science towards the concept of GOD . . .

What do you think about the new approach?

You can’t use science to prove or disprove the existence of God.

In fact if you perform test in trying to prove the existence of God, it would automatically be disregarded as science because the test would have only been preformed with some expectations.

You see, if you are trying to prove the existence of God, you might unknowingly be picking and choosing data, test, and coming up with bias results.

The point of science is to figure out the physical world without any kind of outside sources or personal feelings because those could alter the results.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

You can always tell when someone has lost and won't admit it.
Water freezes. Notice the lack of "god" in that statement.
You flunked the chalange.

-Why does it freeze?
-By the absence of energy (heat).
-Why does the absence of energy make it freeze?
-Because the particles won't have any energy to extract energy from.
-Then that means freezing is neutral, freezing is the absense of action.
And thus the real event we should be investigating is "ice melting" rather then "water freezing". So lets try again:

-Why does ice melt?
-Because the energy causes the particles to move, and the movement brakes certain bounds in between molecules.
-Why does energy make particles move?
-Well particles movement is related to their energy levels as we have noticed that from empirical testing.
-Cute, but that doesn't answer me WHY?

I'll give you another (easyer) on:
-Why do apples fall from a tree?
-Because of gravity.
-what is gravity?
-Gravity is a force existing between any two objects with mass that creates an attraction between those two objects.
-Why do objects with mass attract one another?
(there's two answers: )

general relativity: Objects follow geodesic paths in the curvature of spacetime, which in their turn are created by mass.
Question for gen.rel.: why/how do objects with mass cause geodesic paths into space time?

Quantum mechanics: Objects atract each other because of the mesenger particles (gravitons) that they send t one another.
Question for quantum mech: why do messenger particlescause this movement with object?

I think you'll get the idea right?
You forgot something very essential. Science is based on emperical testing. It doesn't tell us WHY things happens it tells us HOW things happen. Religion tells us WHY things happen and not HOW (at least not in detail). So they are two ways of looking at the same thing and they do go hand in hand, the difrence is one tells you why and the other tells you how.


For the sake of argument, try to look at it from the other perspective for a sec. God manifests his laws. Mankind is witness. God is consequent and always acts in the same way. Mankind is witness. Mankind starts to recognise paterns in these consequent acts of God. Mankind starts to find mathemetical ways to describe the way God manifests his law. Mankind calls this the science of nature, since this is the nature of everything they know. Mankind claims they no longer need God, they got science now.

 

[Malaikah]

For the sake of argument, try to look at it from the other perspective for a sec. God manifests his laws. Mankind is witness. God is consequent and always acts in the same way. Mankind is witness. Mankind starts to recognise paterns in these consequent acts of God. Mankind starts to find mathemetical ways to describe the way God manifests his law. Mankind calls this the science of nature, since this is the nature of everything they know. Mankind claims they no longer need God, they got science now.

Exactly.

In my opinion, science and God are related in the sense that God created this universe and the physical laws it follows. When we study science, all we are doing is trying to understand the world that God created.

But at the same time, we cant use science to understand the nature of God, but only the world he created, which certainly can assist in ones appreciation of God when one realises how complex and amazing the world actually is.

Also, to have an understanding of religion (i prefer to talk of Islam), you do not need to understand science to be a great Muslim and make it to paradise inshaallah. But the study of science with out the belief of God, i think, is limited becuase even though concepts about the world around us can be explained by scientific theories, they are shallow with out the appreciation that it came to be this way through the will of God.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

-Why does it freeze?
-By the absence of energy (heat).
-Why does the absence of energy make it freeze?
-Because the particles won't have any energy to extract energy from.
-Then that means freezing is neutral, freezing is the absense of action.
And thus the real event we should be investigating is "ice melting" rather then "water freezing". So lets try again:

-Why does ice melt?
-Because the energy causes the particles to move, and the movement brakes certain bounds in between molecules.
-Why does energy make particles move?
-Well particles movement is related to their energy levels as we have noticed that from empirical testing.
-Cute, but that doesn't answer me WHY?

I'll give you another (easyer) on:
-Why do apples fall from a tree?
-Because of gravity.
-what is gravity?
-Gravity is a force existing between any two objects with mass that creates an attraction between those two objects.
-Why do objects with mass attract one another?
(there's two answers: )

general relativity: Objects follow geodesic paths in the curvature of spacetime, which in their turn are created by mass.
Question for gen.rel.: why/how do objects with mass cause geodesic paths into space time?

Quantum mechanics: Objects atract each other because of the mesenger particles (gravitons) that they send t one another.
Question for quantum mech: why do messenger particlescause this movement with object?

I think you'll get the idea right?
You forgot something very essential. Science is based on emperical testing. It doesn't tell us WHY things happens it tells us HOW things happen. Religion tells us WHY things happen and not HOW (at least not in detail). So they are two ways of looking at the same thing and they do go hand in hand, the difrence is one tells you why and the other tells you how.


For the sake of argument, try to look at it from the other perspective for a sec. God manifests his laws. Mankind is witness. God is consequent and always acts in the same way. Mankind is witness. Mankind starts to recognise paterns in these consequent acts of God. Mankind starts to find mathemetical ways to describe the way God manifests his law. Mankind calls this the science of nature, since this is the nature of everything they know. Mankind claims they no longer need God, they got science now.

I like your post! It provoked a lot of thought out of me.

Check this out – Sciences and mathematics are ways to describe how the universe functions, physical laws. And for some odd reason, as people better understand how these laws work, they disregard as being Godly. However, because the universe has an infinite number of laws to understand and since every answered question provokes more questions, there will always be something that is not scientifically and mathematically describable; therefore the universe will always be considered Godly.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

I like your post! It provoked a lot of thought out of me.

Check this out – Sciences and mathematics are ways to describe how the universe functions, physical laws. And for some odd reason, as people better understand how these laws work, they disregard as being Godly. However, because the universe has an infinite number of laws to understand and since every answered question provokes more questions, there will always be something that is not scientifically and mathematically describable; therefore the universe will always be considered Godly.

Nice view. This reminds me of a comparison I once read. Imagen two-dimensional creatures living in a two dimensional iron plate. there is a person shooting bullets trough that plate. Now the creatures can only notice the sudden apearence of aa metal object, the sudden disapearence of it, and then teh hole it leaves behind. If these holes would be shot in a certain pattern, they would however be able to construct laws about it. Perhaps even predict where and when the next hole will be shot. But none of those calculations wil bring them any closer to the notion of a threedimensional person with a gun firing bullets in their world.

 

[wilberhum]

All these nice meaningless posts. I'm still waiting for an answer.

Give me one scientific fact about god.

 

[------]

Could you like expand on the question?!

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

All these nice meaningless posts. I'm still waiting for an answer.

something cant be made out of nothing, therefore a primary source is needed. theres your scientific mumbo jumbo!

 

[wilberhum]

something cant be made out of nothing, therefore a primary source is needed. theres your scientific mumbo jumbo!

So what was the primary source for god?
Is god nothing?
Why coulden't some form of matter always existed?
You still miss the point. There are no scientific facts about god.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

So what was the primary source for god?.

this very question shows you have no understanding of what God is.

God is the first and the last and the allmighty. Can you really call that question valid?

Why coulden't some form of matter always existed?

becoz that would defy your science :-\

 

[------]

So what was the primary source for god?

Nothing.

Is god nothing?

God is everything.

Why coulden't some form of matter always existed?

God has always 'existed' and will always 'exist'.

You still miss the point. There are no scientific facts about god.

YOU still miss the point, God is BEYOND science.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ MashAllah

 

[wilberhum]

Could you like expand on the question?!

The question is quite simple. There are scientific facts/proofs/findings. There are scientific theories about many things. These theories are not just, gee I think statements, and they are conclusions backed up by thousands of findings. So they are based on facts. I can prove water boils. I can prove that pressure will change the point at which water boils.
So what scientific statement can I make about god.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

wilberhum, heres a thought, try making something out of nothing, just try it. Seriously !

 

[wilberhum]

YOU still miss the point, God is BEYOND science.

No, I didn't miss the point. That is exactly my point.
There is nothing scientific about god.

 

[------]

There are scientific theories about many things.

Uh -huh. Yeh.

There are scientific facts/proofs/findings. There are scientific theories about many things. These theories are not just, gee I think statements, and they are conclusions backed up by thousands of findings.

Yup.

I can prove water boils. I can prove that pressure will change the point at which water boils.

I'm sure you can.

So what scientific statement can I make about god.

Have u seen the Qur'an by any chance? Have u read it? Can u see the scientific miracles in there? Is that not enough for you? If it isn't then I guess u think that Allah did not send down the Qur'an (astagfirullah).

 

[------]

wilberhum, heres a thought, try making something out of nothing, just try it. Seriously !

Wilberhum, You try creating a human and breathing life into it. Just try, and show me the results. Which won't be very good I suspect.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Edit

 

[------]

LOL i edited it akhee.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

so did i :hiding: