GOD in the eyes of Science: Possibility or Necessity

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You are too cute. you will not answer me straight forward question until I answer loaded trick question. That way you can avoid answering my question. Why, because you have no answer.

but seriously, answer that, its really interesting

 

[wilberhum]

no really its the true faith


You try reading the Quran without being moved, no really, try it (you must understand arabic in order to do this)

No really it is "Just another part of the belief system".
Tell me which religion claims they are not the "True Faith"?

 

[wilberhum]

But every religion doesn't have proof

No religion has proof. They have arguments, but no proof. That is unless you redefine proof. Make circular logic a valid form of proof. Etc. Etc.

 

[wilberhum]

we already been through this, he doesnt accept that our brilliant illiterate prophet saws obtained the Quran through divine ways and he doesnt accept that what happened 1400 years ago is being recently proven to be true...


:salamext:

You are totally correct.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You are totally correct.

but the question is why?

 

[wilberhum]

but seriously, answer that, its really interesting

I would say at this point you have answered the question. There are no scientific facts about god.

 

[wilberhum]

but the question is why?

There is the short and the long answer. The short answer is I believe that all religions are man made. For the long answer, send an email to [email protected]

 

[wilberhum]

I think agnosticism is the most misunderstood concept in the world.

There are always misleading statements like:
The word agnostic comes from the Greek 'a' (without) and 'gnosis' (knowledge).
And
When asked "Does god exist?" an agnostic will say "I don't know".
Unless you keep that statement relative to proof.

Agnostic; 1870, "one who professes that the existence of a First Cause and the essential nature of things are not and cannot be known."
An agnostic can believe that god exists or not. They only agree that there is no proof and whether god exists or not it is simply a matter of faith.

 

[wilberhum]

Remember when? Way back in the beginning of this thread. Its title is GOD in the eyes of Science. What was present was the ID Theory.
Let’s take a moment to do some simple science talk.
I can heat water and see what happens. I can do it a 100 times and see that the same thing keeps happening. I can take the air out of a bottle and I can see what happens. I can do it a 100 times and see that the same thing keeps happening. That is how science works.
Now add god. Can I heat god and see what happens? Can I do it 100 times and see the same thing reoccurring? Can I take god out of a bottle? Can I do it 100 times and see the same thing reoccurring? Of course not.
We define god as a spirit with no physical properties. Having no physical properties, we can not do any thing scientifically. It is that simple. There fore there are no “Scientific Facts about god”.

ID is about god. Since there is nothing scientific about god, there is nothing scientific about ID. It is simply just another Theist Theory.

Now having said that, I think there is some reasonable logic in that theory. It sure makes more since than the Adam and Eve story. So I have some faith in the Theory of ID. And I do want to emphases faith. Because it is about god, it is about faith and has nothing to do with science or provable facts.

I think teaching ID is a good idea. But it needs to be in a religion class, not in a science class. Teaching ID is a science class makes as much since as teaching algebra in a creative writing class.

There are lots of good things to be said about faith and religion.
Don’t tarnish it by trying to make it what it’s not.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

Can I ask everyone a question?

What is it that is making this such a heated conversation?

I personally don’t see why saying faith is not fact is so devastating to the faithful. It’s not saying anyone is wrong. It’s just saying that it can’t be physically proven with tests.

If you know that your faith is true, then nothing anyone says could convince you otherwise, even if it’s not provable.

Something not being “provable” shouldn’t affect faith because it’s faith.

Something not being “provable” does not make it false.

(And if you feel your religion needs to be provable) Something not being “provable” now, does not mean it will never be provable.

 

[i_m_tipu]

hi wilberhum

You are too cute. you will not answer me straight forward question until I answer loaded trick question. That way you can avoid answering my question. Why, because you have no answer.

Talking of our creator is not a straight forward thing.

I can give a example

Let say…
Someone created a calculator or anything. Does it possible for a calculator or that thing created by human talk about the human.
…...never
and if that calculator starting to think why i have no knowledge about the human.
does not it's looks silly

Allaah (swt) created us as a best creature on universe.
Does not mean u have the knowledge of our creator.

But amazing thing is that
I ask u a very simple question.

who created the science

Why doesn’t u answer it?

Thou I guess u can give the ans

Waiting for ur ans.
I promise (Allaah Willling)I give my ans about ur question.

 

[i_m_tipu]

hello iLL_LeaT

Can I ask everyone a question?

What is it that is making this such a heated conversation?

I personally don’t see why saying faith is not fact is so devastating to the faithful. It’s not saying anyone is wrong. It’s just saying that it can’t be physically proven with tests.

If you know that your faith is true, then nothing anyone says could convince you otherwise, even if it’s not provable.

Something not being “provable” shouldn’t affect faith because it’s faith.

Something not being “provable” does not make it false.

(And if you feel your religion needs to be provable) Something not being “provable” now, does not mean it will never be provable.

i will enjoy talking with u insAllaah
i have no problem.
go on

 

[sevgi]

so where does the word "Athiest" come from?

The term atheism comes from the Greek word atheos, meaning godless. Atheos is derived form a, meaning "without," and theos, meaning "deity".

 

[wilberhum]

i_m_tipu

Why doesn’t u answer it?

Because you are not interested in an answer. Your reply will be the standard no thought, no insite, no anything, standard answer. God.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i_m_tipu

Because you are not interested in an answer. Your reply will be the standard no thought, no insite, no anything, standard answer. God.

if his not i certainly am interested !
Science came about ever since man began to think. If you consider the intensity of heat then you could say its man that learnt how to create devices to control that intensity (cookers - increase,decrease amount of flame). What im saying is who created the fire, if you go back to the roots you cant come to any conclusion other then God exists.

Scientific proof... science wouldnt even exist without the brain God has given to man...

 

[wilberhum]

Scientific proof... science wouldnt even exist without the brain God has given to man...

Just what I said you would say.
Is this your idea of a scientific fact about god/

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Just what I said you would say.
Is this your idea of a scientific fact about god/

my idea is that God prevails over science. Is that so hard to grasp?

 

[wilberhum]

my idea is that God prevails over science. Is that so hard to grasp?

It is a very easy to grasp. It is so easy anyone can do it.
Or as in a commercial “It’s so easy that even a cave man can do it”.

Mankind has asked millions of questions to give a one word answerer to all of them will ensure that the next million questions will be answered with one word.
Using your approach, we would still not understand why water doesn’t flow up hill let alone trying to find out how stars form.

You like one word answers, which is OK. I like the answers that stretch my thinking.

I like the ones that I have to read three times and think about if for hours to begin to understand. I fascinated by the methods that were use to conclude that TRex was not a fierce predator but only a scavenger. I’m amazed that they can date things in billions of years.
Abiogenesis, what a concept. Currently it is beyond me, but I’m trying to grasp it.

So have fun with your one word answers.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I like the ones that I have to read three times and think about if for hours to begin to understand. .

^^^this is just proof that you would love to read the Qur'an.

Also:
What you have said is basically:

"Any bozo (or rather caveman) can easily state that God exists but its harder to explain it through scientific means"

forgive me if i've put any words in your mouth, it wasnt my intention :X

anyway, my understanding: Theres plenty of scientific proof for the Quran.
Your understanding: There all void


STALE-MATE

 

[wilberhum]

its harder to explain it through scientific means"

Not harder, impossible. Big difference.

Theres plenty of scientific proof for the Quran.

And you have every right to believe that. About 20% of this world would agree with you. But circular logic is not scientific.