hadiths in islam

['Abd-al Latif]

doesnt mohammed give permission to lie?

piers are you confusing lying with breaking oaths?

066.002
YUSUFALI: Allah has already ordained for you, the dissolution of your oaths: and Allah is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

no here I found something about lying, but it is in war.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

The "little white lie"?:

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857:
Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba:

That she heard Allah's Apostle saying, "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

This is a permissibility, not an encouragement.

The basic principle concerning telling lies is that it is one of the signs of the hypocrites, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The signs of the hypocrite are three: when he speaks, he lies, when he makes a promise he breaks it, and when he is entrusted with something he breaks that trust.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 32; Muslim, 89.

But there are some instances in which Islam permits lying, if that serves a greater purpose or wards off a greater harm:

These cases include the following:

1- When a person is intermediating in order to bring about reconciliation between two disputing parties.

2- When a man speaks to his wife, or a wife to her husband, concerning matters that will increase the love between them.

3- War.

It was narrated from Umm Kulthoom bint ‘Uqbah that she heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “He is not a liar who brings about reconciliation among people, conveys good words and says good things.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2546; Muslim, 2605

It was narrated that Asma’ bint Yazeed said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Lies are not appropriate except in three cases: when a man speaks to his wife to please her, telling lies at times of war, and lying in order to bring about reconciliation between people.”

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/47564

And as for this:

not in the same thread as something about allah being the female moon god etc because it gets too much to keep up with.

This is false junk and myth from a Christian known as Robert Morey. How can Allah be the moon god when Allah himself states explicitally not to worship the moon??

"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [Quran 41:37]

 

[piers]

"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [Quran 41:37]

I think you missed my point. my point was lets talk about christian issues on 1 thread and muslim ones on another because otherwise there become too many red herrings.

 

[جوري]

I think you missed my point. my point was lets talk about christian issues on 1 thread and muslim ones on another because otherwise there become too many red herrings.

seeing that you are the actual culprit and cause of said derangement on this thread-- I suggest you heed your own advise, and try to better formulate what you plagiarize from your fundy sites so you are not leaving the whole of us in a hearty guffaw.. surely you can get away with such deceptive propaganda in your small village, but you are in the city now!

all the best

 

[Follower]

convert you are misunderstanding Paul- he is not condoning lying. Please read it again.

Romans 3

1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."

5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

 

[Follower]

something Gossamer pasted -"Telling lies is not part of the human nature."

But then turthfulness can be acquired? Are we clean slates?

"Therefore, truthfulness is a conduct that can be acquired by keenness and persistence in telling the truth - even if it requires a lot of effort. A Muslim should strive to accomplish such a noble characteristic so that he can set a good example to the coming generations."


Where do muslims believe lying comes from?

 

[convert]

convert you are misunderstanding Paul- he is not condoning lying. Please read it again.

Romans 3

1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."

5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

I noticed you chose the 1 translation that switches from the 1st person to the 3rd person (NIV), especially in verse 7. I wonder why that is?

http://bible.cc/romans/3-7.htm

 

[Follower]

Which were you using? Present day english is easier for some to understand. Scholars have studied the language, gone back and put in our terms what was meant. An example that exist even today:

Matthew 19
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The true translation for camel is that it is a rope:
http://www.aramaicpe****ta.com/AramaicNTtools/Pe****tainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich19.pdf

The different translation do not change the meaning of the passage.

 

[convert]

Which were you using? Present day english is easier for some to understand. Scholars have studied the language, gone back and put in our terms what was meant. An example that exist even today:

Matthew 19
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The true translation for camel is that it is a rope:
http://www.aramaicpe****ta.com/AramaicNTtools/Pe****tainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich19.pdf

The different translation do not change the meaning of the passage.

Every other translation there is since the dearth of information points to that lone translation being the outlier, and hence why you used it to soften or remove the blow.

If you want to play that game then why is there the big "King James only" movement in christianity? Seems when scholars did that to come out with the New Revised Standard edition and found many verses to be fraudulent (especially with regards to that "there are three in heaven" verse) people didn't like that.

But this is going off-topic with regards to the original post however.

 

[piers]

seeing that you are the actual culprit and cause of said derangement on this thread-- I suggest you heed your own advise, and try to better formulate what you plagiarize from your fundy sites so you are not leaving the whole of us in a hearty guffaw.. surely you can get away with such deceptive propaganda in your small village, but you are in the city now!

unbelievable accusing my of derailing my own thread how amusing. It was fine until some muslim brought romans 3 up. If islam gets attacked then there is always some attack made on the christian faith to move attention away from the issue with islam. The issue was the use of hadiths and I followed up with a question on lieing because it came up and is in the hadiths. I found the technical term for this: takeyya

 

[Follower]

convert - yes it is, I have to mention that you were the one bringing it up-you are the one that brought it up. I have to say that because I am often accused of derailing threads which very often I am but not this time!!

Many Bible study groups request that people bring many different translations to their meetings. If you are really trying to get to the truth studying all the different translations brings fuller meaning and understanding.

Back to the issue!
I will repost:
"something Gossamer pasted -"Telling lies is not part of the human nature."

But then turthfulness can be acquired? Are we clean slates?

"Therefore, truthfulness is a conduct that can be acquired by keenness and persistence in telling the truth - even if it requires a lot of effort. A Muslim should strive to accomplish such a noble characteristic so that he can set a good example to the coming generations." "

Where do muslims believe lying comes from?

 

[convert]

unbelievable accusing my of derailing my own thread how amusing. It was fine until some muslim brought romans 3 up. If islam gets attacked then there is always some attack made on the christian faith to move attention away from the issue with islam. The issue was the use of hadiths and I followed up with a question on lieing because it came up and is in the hadiths. I found the technical term for this: takeyya

Cute. Resort to accusations when you have nothing to stand on. Correct me if I am wrong but it was a christian who made accusations that nothing re: condoning lying could be found in christian literature, correct? I had to show you where you were wrong.

And yes, you did derail the thread topic. Switching from the weight given to hadith right into accusing the prophet (saw) of telling us to lie. You're just too much man.

 

[Zafran]

unbelievable accusing my of derailing my own thread how amusing. It was fine until some muslim brought romans 3 up. If islam gets attacked then there is always some attack made on the christian faith to move attention away from the issue with islam. The issue was the use of hadiths and I followed up with a question on lieing because it came up and is in the hadiths. I found the technical term for this: takeyya

Your Question has clearly been answerd so no idea what your bragging about - its you who had fit about Romans 3.

some christains shouldnt be hypocritical - If they expect to chuck charges at Muslims without even looking at there own religion - simple as that.

 

[Follower]

someone mentioned that in war you do not tell your strategies

I am remembering possibly incorrectly, that USA has in fact make it fairly well known when we were going to attack an enemy country and that is why the Pearl Harbor attack was such a shock to us.

Twin Towers attack another story - no one country involved- just muslims.

 

[convert]

someone mentioned that in war you do not tell your strategies

I am remembering possibly incorrectly, that USA has in fact make it fairly well known when we were going to attack an enemy country and that is why the Pearl Harbor attack was such a shock to us.

Twin Towers attack another story - no one country involved- just muslims.

I believe we have deduced the intentions of the OP.

This post right here is a clear example of a worthless post and thread litter.

 

[Zafran]

someone mentioned that in war you do not tell your strategies

I am remembering possibly incorrectly, that USA has in fact make it fairly well known when we were going to attack an enemy country and that is why the Pearl Harbor attack was such a shock to us.

Twin Towers attack another story - no one country involved- just muslims.

America didnt talk about the strategies in invading Japan during WW2 - (no Allied Country did) - or that they were making an atomic bomb to wipe civilans off the face of the earth. The same thing about Iraq and Afganistan. Same thing about having concentartion camps in america during the world war 2 - where they put Japenese in because they didnt trust them.

Again going off topic thanks to you - but you had to be corrected.

 

[Follower]

LOL!! you are not understanding -I am not equating telling strategies with announcing that you will attack. These are 2 different things.

One [warning of attack] is to help civilians get out of the way the other- well of course in war there is the need to not tell the whole plan, to protect your soldiers.

Isn't this more an omission of facts and not outright lying?

 

[Zafran]

LOL!! you are not understanding -I am not equating telling strategies with announcing that you will attack. These are 2 different things.

One [warning of attack] is to help civilians get out of the way the other- well of course in war there is the need to not tell the whole plan, to protect your soldiers.

Isn't this more an omission of facts and not outright lying?

whos off topic now - you could call it lying if you want as "warning the civilains" doesnt work - even the Mongols did that. Innocent people still died.

But your openly off topic.

 

[جوري]

unbelievable accusing my of derailing my own thread how amusing.

Glad that it is both unbelievable and amusing -- I think I am getting a feel for your exasperation!

It was fine until some muslim brought romans 3 up. If islam gets attacked then there is always some attack made on the christian faith to move attention away from the issue with islam.

You are inept at debating, and misconstrue christian tenets for attacks, or dismiss them as anti-christian when in fact they came from a christian site that openly attacks muslims, do you bother click on the links provided?

The issue was the use of hadiths and I followed up with a question on lieing because it came up and is in the hadiths. I found the technical term for this: takeyya

I told you before there is no such word as 'lieing' perhaps if you can fix your syntax and grammar, and compose some intelligible sentences can we understand the psycho-babble you are spewing!

all the best

 

[piers]

I told you before there is no such word as 'lieing' perhaps if you can fix your syntax and grammar, and compose some intelligible sentences can we understand the psycho-babble you are spewing!

I am dyslexic and because of that have trouble with sintax and sentance structure.

You are inept at debating, and misconstrue christian tenets for attacks, or dismiss them as anti-christian when in fact they came from a christian site that openly attacks muslims, do you bother click on the links provided?

I dont bother to click links to b/s, on one of the other forums some islamic links I was given I will check out but not some fringe group of christians. Some random group of "christians" promoting sin IE lieing doesnt constitute something christ was associated with or me. Also truth is if I quoted some wahabbis supporting suicide bombing, you wouldnt associate yourself with them. The fact I dont wanna associate with anyone who isnt following christ teaching is quite reasonable. would you associate with a armadi?

As for mohammed I brought that up because it is in the hadiths him permitting lieing, you are taught by your imams that you can lie to spread islam and so that is why I bring it up.

Also I am NOT a funde christian, never have been, never will.

Glad that it is both unbelievable and amusing -- I think I am getting a feel for your exasperation!

its not exasperation, I debate athiests a lot of the time and they have some good arguements. I am just surprised at the lack of quality amongst muslims and your methods and so it is quite funny to me.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

you are taught by your imams that you can lie to spread islam and so that is why I bring it up.

We can never ever lie about our religion, especially when it comes to telling to people about it. So maybe you need to get your facts straight. Also I'd love to see which imam allows you to lie? Rather than just spoonfeedings us nonsense, why don't you bother providing some legit proof?

its not exasperation, I debate athiests a lot of the time and they have some good arguements. I am just surprised at the lack of quality amongst muslims and your methods and so it is quite funny to me.

Or possibly because you can't grasp it?? Perhaps. I don't blame you or do I? Who knows.